Manleywoman Skating Podcast #62: Carol Heiss Jenkins, Part 2

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by manleywoman, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,827
    When I interviewed Carol Heiss Jenkins recently, she spoke so long I had to break it into two parts. :) I just mixed down Part 2 this morning.

    Part One covered her start in skating, her rivalry with Tenley Albright and her dominance through the 1960 Squaw Valley Olympics.

    Part Two covers her professional career, most notably starring in "Snow White and the Three Stooges," her start as a coach, her thought on IJS, and some great superstitions she and her fellow coaches share.

    It's available to listen via the links above to my website, and from the iTunes Store. And just recently, my hosting provider created an app so fans can listen right from my Facebook page . . . click the "Listen NOW" button to the right under the big photo at the top.

    Thanks all and enjoy!
  2. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    706
    thanks for your work. I'll listen to it when I have a little time:)
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  3. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,268
    Oh wow, I just finished part 1. REALLY excellent. I am so impressed by Heiss's work ethic, her attitude towards her career, her family, and her students. She sounds like a VERY smart cookie, and still just LOOOOOOOVES everything about figure skating.
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  4. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,245
    Thank you, manleywoman! Carol is so sharp and full of so many great stories.
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,520
    I have to listen to this interview. One thing I have always wanted to know was how she ended up coaching Miki Ando and how she viewed their mixed results together.
  6. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,153
    Carol Heiss has certainly led a charmed life with regards to skating. I suspect her optimism has a lot to do with it. She draws good people to her.
    Maofan7 and (deleted member) like this.
  7. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,726
    Thank you manleywoman for sharing this amazing interview with the legendary Carol Heiss Jenkins! Really my first memory of her was during the "Little Women" fluffy Intro for the Ladies Olympic LP at the 1998 Olympics when she said in very affectionate tones what she would like to tell Tara about wanting to be a Champion 'NOW!' even though people were always telling her that she 'had time' because of her youth in the days she competed against Tenley Albright. :)
    Carol @1:13 1998 Olympic Ladies LP Fluff and Warmup .
  8. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,564
    Thank you again!
  9. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,153
    I thought it was interesting that women in the fifties were already working on triple jumps in anticipation that one of their competitors might add one to their program. She mentioned that she worked on a triple loop and would have added it if Sjoukje Dykstra had added a triple to her program. It gives you an idea of how long it takes the sport to evolve. Triples weren't common for women until the eighties.

    It is also interesting that she chose to start with the loop. She must have anticipated that if her competitor added a triple it would be a toe loop or a salchow. Beneath that ladylike exterior is a tough competitor.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  10. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,891
    Yes, especially since not even the guys were throwing down tons of triples during this period either. I don't think her husband even did them in comp.

    Anywho, maybe the loop because that was the first triple Dick landed, but most probably because I assume it was her most dependable jump. She's really known for the axel, which she talks about quite a lot int he interview, so I kinda assume she was more of an edge jumper.
  11. Moto Guzzi

    Moto Guzzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,729
  12. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,827
    Yes, and then it wasn't until 1978 when one was ratified. It really does take a good 20-30 years for a new jump to settle into being expected and normal.
  13. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,742
    Competitors were "discouraged" from doing triples at the time because they were thought to be too "showy" for competition.
    IIRC, David Jenkins discussed this in his interview with manleywoman.
  14. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,507

    ^^ :lol: I guess blame that attitude on the lack of speedy technical advancement, particularly re ladies fs, eh? ;)

    Just kidding, btw (mostly in response to all those who advocate for ladies needing to do lots of difficulty, or complaining about the lack of technical difficulty among ladies competitors during different decades).

    The really :duh: is that the discouragement was due to apparently prevalent thinking that triples were too showy, but not that they were too difficult or challenging?!!!

    Too bad that same thinking isn't being applied to men performing three quads in a program these days! :plush: :drama: :rofl:
  15. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    7,890
    To be more specific, jumps are not on the ice, so multiple rotation jumps were discouraged because they were not skating per se and did not demonstrate use of edges any better than singles. They were often considered "merely acrobatics above the ice" that did not emphasize the unique characteristics of a skating competition, use of blades on ice.

    Of course, this prevailing wisdom had to give way to the concept that a sports competitions have to emphasize athletics or it is no longer a sport but an art.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  16. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,742
    How the emphasis has changed!
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,507

    Thanks for pointing out the specifics behind the initial discouragement. It seems to make a lot of sense re multiple revolution jumps not demonstrating use of edges any better than single jumps. I for one miss the delayed axel jump and other moves rarely performed in today's hyper-frantic programs.

    Well-performed triples and doubles look better than sloppily performed jumps of any kind. Quads when performed well by Javier and Hanyu look amazing, as they have great spring and good height. But often, in watching most other skaters performing quads, to my eyes that extra revolution is so fleeting as to be nonexistent. There should be a balance between well-executed difficult technique and well-performed choreography. The sad thing to me is how much of a toll the extra revolution in quads takes on the bodies of male skaters, and on their training regimen, not to mention the toll popping or falling on quads can take on their programs. Figure skating is certainly athletic enough without an overemphasis on proving how many revolutions one can perform in the air before landing on one skate blade.

    And after all, figure skating can not escape being both sport and art, no matter how corrupted and nonexistent the art is becoming under IJS. The art is still important, otherwise, as many have said before, take away the music, costumes, choreography, spins, footwork, and moves in the field, and simply turn it into a ice-jumping contest.
  18. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    7,890
    The suspension in the air during Javi's 4S is breathtaking, and the exit speed is often similar to the entry speed ... features that are also desirable in a good delay Axel.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  19. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,507
    ^^ As I said, Javi gets great height, and he has good spring and quick revolutions so his quads are often amazing when well-executed. For me, though, no quad truly compares to the simplicity of a delayed axel jump.
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  20. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    320
    Is Carol still coaching?
  21. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    7,827