Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 possibly shot down in Ukraine (updated)

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by GarrAarghHrumph, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

    13,587
    5,174
    113
    From:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-crashes-in-ukraine/

    Can't find anything on whether Ukraine definitively doesn't have such Russian-made systems, such that any fired missile would likely have come from Russian or pro-Russian forces.
     
  2. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    The flight recorders have been reported to have been found. The rebels said they will send them to Moscow. (Rather than to Kiev.)
     
  3. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

    17,561
    1,170
    113
    Yes, I suspect that is why they would not allow Ukrainian officials access to the site. It will be interesting to see if, now that they have possession of the recorders, they will allow Ukrainian officials access. This doesn't sound good. I think the flight recorders should be sent to a neutral country.
     
  4. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

    13,587
    5,174
    113
    If it's somewhat of a relief amidst an otherwise terrible situation (as I have a number of colleagues flying or scheduled to fly along that general route in the next few days), U.S. airlines were already prohibited from flying over eastern Ukraine and Crimea (unless headed for Ukraine), and other airlines such as BA, Air France/KLM, and Lufthansa will also be avoiding eastern Ukraine if they haven't already.
     
  5. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    Interfax News is reporting that it may have been Putin's plane that was targeted. They do not say by whom. Of course, this is unsubstantiated. They say that Putin's plane crossed the airspace of the Malaysian Airlines plane near Warsaw, and that Putin's plane is similar in size and color.

    I'm not going for that one. It still seems more likely that the separatists thought they were shooting down a Ukrainian military jet, and instead, accidentally got a civilian airliner. But we'll see.
     
  6. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    1,841
    261
    83
    I have a feeling we'll never know what really happened. If the black box was found, we'll probably end up knowing if it was an accidential crash or if it was sudden, suggesting the plane was shot down, however, if the plane was shot down, I don't think anyone will ever learn who shot it down and why.
     
  7. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    I am also concerned that the "crime scene" is being contaminated; that evidence will be removed, destroyed, or just not be recognized, since no one who seems to have any background in this type of investigation is in charge of the scene.
     
  8. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

    17,561
    1,170
    113
    That doesn't make sense. Putin was on the phone with Obama, shortly after the plane went down, discussing the new US sanctions against Russia. He casually mentioned the crash. I'm not going for it either.
     
  9. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

    17,561
    1,170
    113
    Apparently there are satellite images that would have picked up the missile and (hopefully) where it came from. It exploded in the air.

    Oh, I totally agree. The fact that they prevented Ukrainian authorities from investigating the site makes this all the more suspect.
     
  10. Jenya

    Jenya Well-Known Member

    4,216
    651
    113
    Russia Today reported that as well. From what I understand, the Ukrainian army does not have surface to air missiles.
     
  11. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    This report (not necessarily a trustworthy source) says that the Ukrainian military deployed Buk systems to this region as recently as yesterday. While I don't necessarily trust the source on the timing, I would think they'd be right that the Ukrainian military does own such systems:
    http://rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/

    ETA: the Ukranian military says they had no Buk anti-aircraft systems in the region:

    [BBC]
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  12. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    17,266
    1,634
    113
    Horrible news. Hope it was not shot down. Because several Ukrainian planes have been shot down over the last weeks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  13. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    I wonder if Malaysia Airlines is going to be able to go on after this?
     
  14. fan

    fan Well-Known Member

    1,018
    132
    63
    I think it might go bankrupt - who would want to fly after lightening strikes twice?
     
  15. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
  16. PRlady

    PRlady Smoking

    21,880
    5,556
    113
    There is an RT news report linked on Twitter that I made the mistake of clicking on. My god, they show bodies up close in a way no American network could or would. Horrific.
     
  17. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    17,559
    2,128
    113
    Aside from all the other reasons, one does wonder about a company that would knowingly fly civilians across a war zone where planes are currently being shot down.

    I haven't seen what you are referring to, but I don't think US media is at all immune to doing the same. We watch the CBS Evening News every night, and there are many times when I must look away as they show graphic images of victims of disaster, war and war crimes, and of people being killed.
     
  18. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    The Ukrainian Secret Service have posted the audio of what they say is a phone call they'd intercepted. They say it's between two Russian fighters, who admit to shooting down the plane. For this, again, I have no substantiation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g&feature=youtu.be

    Reuters is reporting that the Ukrainian security chief is accusing two Russian military intelligence officers of being those in the call. He is accusing them of being involved in the crash.

    The UK has asked the UN Security Council to hold an emergency meeting about the crisis in Ukraine. Probably not a bad idea.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  19. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    12,021
    1,360
    113
    But isn't that pretty much EVERY airline except American ones? Certainly many reputable airlines have said they will rethink their flight plans after this, which means they haven't already changed them. (American ones apparently already had)
     
  20. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

    2,569
    277
    83
    As horrible as the news is, I feared it would come to something like this a long time ago. When the politicians are busy with their own sandbox in the kindergarten games innocent people are the only ones who suffer. The impotency of the West together with Yanukovich II aka Poroshenko in resolving the conflict cost the people, who have nothing to do with it, their lives.

    All of them can go on politikin while more people die every day in this stupid meaningless war just because West is so afraid for the global economy. Who said the lives of people were priceless? I believe there's been a tag on us all for quite a long time.
     
  21. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

    1,841
    261
    83
    They said on TV earlier that it's not uncommon to do that, basically, that usually everyone does that and that the plane was also supposed to fly over Afghanistan and that the air space over Ukraine was closed only until 6,500 meters (sorry, I don't know how many feet that are). 30,000 feet (between 10,000 and 11,000 meters) was apparently, considered safe considering what was going on in the area.

    It kind of seems wrong that an airlines should suffer from that since, if the plane was shot down, it wasn't their fault and no one knows what happened to the other flight. If, for example, it was hacked like some speculated, then it wasn't the airlines' fault either and coud have happened to anyone. Just like this time it sounds like it could have happened to anyone.

    I want to believe that that'll help them figure it all out and solve this issue, the families deserve answers this time, however, I'm a bit doubtful since they weren't even able to find an airplane with all the technology that they have :(

    It all seems to unnecessary and ridiculous, especially if you consider that, two days ago, I stood in a crowd of 500,000 people of various nationalities, religions and races, and we all celebrated together. Peacefully. Why, if that's possible, do politicans find it necessary to lead wars and how do they dare justify that they're doing it in the name of nationality and/or race and/or religion? It's so obviously a lie and they lead the war for no other reason but power and greed. It makes me so, so angry!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  22. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    The Ukraine has just accepted the US's offer of help. The US is sending a team to the site to investigate the crash.

    One of the rebel leaders has told the BBC that the rebels will support a cease-fire, starting immediately, to allow for investigation of the crash.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  23. elif

    elif Active Member

    526
    240
    43
    Flightradar24:
    Singapore Airlines SQ351 (B777) and Air India AI113 (B787) were about 25 km from #MH17 when it disappeared.
     
  24. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

    2,569
    277
    83
    Not that Ukraine really had to accept anything. Boeing is an American plane, so NTSB together with Boeing people are always the first to be naturally invited for the investigation. It's a worldwide practice with any aircraft manufacturer. Which proves one more time politicians will now be scoring points on the bones.
     
  25. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

    6,125
    1,036
    113
    Where is Ronald Regan when you need him? This is such a nightmare. I don't understand the mentality and contorted thinking that allows a human being to think bringing down a huge plane is justified.
     
  26. FarFarAway

    FarFarAway Choice is an illusion

    2,569
    277
    83
    How huge do you think the plane seems when it's 10,000 meters above you? Not that I am defending anyone. Apparently some boys got some toys which were beyond their understanding powers. However sad this all is, I am pretty sure the real political Muppet Show is only about to start.
     
  27. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    ABC News is saying that the US government believes the plane was taken down by a surface-to-air missile. They do not yet know exactly where the missile was launched from. VP Biden says "not an accident, blown out of the sky."

    Putin blames the Ukrainian government for all of this. He's not saying they shot the plane down. He's saying they are to blame because the "airplane disaster would not have happened if Kiev had not renewed military operation against rebels in east Ukraine." [Reuters]
     
  28. fan

    fan Well-Known Member

    1,018
    132
    63
    i'm worried about WW3.
     
    Habs and (deleted member) like this.
  29. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

    44,042
    10,551
    113
    I think fewer senile old men and not more is what is needed at this point.
     
    BlueRidge and (deleted member) like this.
  30. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    16,413
    2,330
    113
    There is a press conference at the airport in Amsterdam at this moment. They have announced the nationalities they know of, of the people who were on the plane:

    154 Netherlands
    27 Australia
    23 Malaysia
    11 Indonesia
    6 UK
    4 Germany
    4 Belgium
    3 Philippines
    1 Canada
    Rest unknown at this time.