Lysacek and Weir Comeback: Are they US Top 2?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by skatingfan12, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    The thread title asks if Evan and Johnny would be US Top 2, and my thought was that they could be, especially Evan since he's such a determined athlete. And to me a top five Worlds finish means you are in the thick of things at the World level. I think Evan has a chance to do that -- no guarantee of course, but I think he has a shot. (Btw, I don't think Jeremy's 2010 Worlds performances would garner a top five finish next year; he only finished fifth that year b/c it was a depleted field -- no Evan, no Plush, no Lambiel, etc.) Frankly I don't care if Evan ever medals at Worlds again, but if he can help the US get three spots back, then I welcome him back with open arms.

    As for your bold OGM prediction, you offered to provide a link, and then when I request it, you tell me to go find it myself? Okay, then.
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    The OP then asked if they could compete with the best in the World so it is asking 2 difference things. Anyway you said nothing about Johnny, who wasnt even really a top 2 American when he left. After burning all bridges upon his retirement, with a greater emphasis on quads and transitions (although quads arent a strength for U.S men in fairness), and with the usual problems of nearing 30 and being off competition awhile, it would be a miracle if he was anywhere near a top 2 American when he returned, even with how weak the U.S men currently seem to be. I did concede Evan could be a top 2 American if he returned (which he probably wont but we will see), which isnt saying much with the current U.S men.


    Not really. I dont think Joubert is back in the thick of things. I dont consider Amodio in the thick of things right now.


    Of course the field in 2010 was much weaker (although the 2010 Worlds was a stronger competition than the 2010 Olympics even with the absences). However Jeremy was purposely well undermarked and held down by the judges at the 2010 Worlds as punishment for his meltdown at the Olympics. Considering the PCS he was getting even for flawed performances this year yes he could be 5thish with the same type of performance he had at the 2010 Worlds. His performances at the 2010 Worlds itself probably would have come 2nd at the 2010 Worlds if he were not clearly out of favor at that point.


    I forgot you had to be a payed member to search an individuals threads (including your own). You are a payed member and I stated the time I made the thread so it should be incredibly easy for you to find it in less than a minute. Is that so complicated. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Where in this thread did you declare that Evan "would win the Olympics for sure"? No such bold declaration is on the first page, and I'm not wading through 11 pages of "oh hell no, Evan better not win!"
     
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  4. psycho

    psycho New Member

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    Johnny absolutely was top 2 US men when he left. He beat Abbott in three out of four head to head competitions that season.

    As for the comebacks, it's too soon to tell, and all this speculation is pointless.

    I don't think you will enjoy Jeremy's skating very much if that happened.;)
     
  5. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    Really? Brown with his 3 lutz and nice spins?
     
  6. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely would enjoy Jeremy if he inherited Evan's self confidence and ability to focus, combined with his own artistry. I know you are a longtime Evan hater but give me a break.
     
  7. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, you have a point, but it should be noted that Johnny was gushing about both Brown and Farris at Nationals. So if he recognizes their talent, it's worth noting...
     
  8. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    Going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.
     
  9. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Lysacek might be #1 or #2, but I don't know about Weir. I saw a show performance from him on youtube a few months back and he seemed out of shape. I don't think he's known as the most DISCIPLINED athlete either, he seems to enjoy more running around to fashion shows and stuff especially now, although Lysacek IS known as a disciplined athlete so I think he has a better chance of being in good form.
     
  10. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    I think the bottom line is (As we all know) it is a pre - Olympic year next season. The US had a fairly dismal showing in the men's event at Worlds this year and I am sure are getting panicky.
    I believe that if Evan is not able to win or even medal in an event, he is certainly able to crack top 5. Johnny....the jury's still out on that one...I think 2013 World team needs to be Evan in combination with a reliable competitor (like end of season Ross Miner)
    I do hope both guys return this season, they both have an amazing presence and would bring a certain cache back to the event...I agree it will be very interesting to see this play out!
     
  11. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    With the Hersh article he ends with something indicating a Weir-Lysacek rivalry will be good and drive news stories. I doubt it.

    Skating has changed. Chan was always there saying quads are not important and shouldn't matter and winners should have it all! Quads were not involved it having it all. It was all triple jumps and spins and steps and PCS. Programs with tons of transitions and choreo and all that and quads were not important. Lysacek was saying the same exact thing and all his supporters were saying the exact same thing and now Chan is doing quads. Quads are now part of everything. You can't have everything and not do quads. No top tier person is not doing quads now. Takahashi is doing them basically well in SP's and LP's. There can be no anti-quad or quads don't matter activism. They do matter and are important and valued in skating again.
     
  12. doubleflutz

    doubleflutz New Member

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    Quad quad quad quad, quad quady quaddle quad. Quadly, quad quad quad quad quady, quad quading quader-quader, quad quad quads quad quad quad. Quad quad quad quad quad quading quadquad. Quad quad quad, quad. Quad-quad quads quad. QUAD-QUAD. Quad quad quad quadding quad, quad quadyquad quad quad quads quads quad. Quad quad. Quad quading quad quad.

    QUAD QUAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  13. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    Attack of the Freaking Quads! :scream:

    Quad is ruining the sport -- has already ruined the sport, not to mention groins, bones, joints, ligaments, beauty of the sport. It's just an extra revolution that goes by in a split second, but yet it takes tons of training time, mental energy, and physical wearing down. It's not worth it. But it won't go away. What are the physical limits anyway? Will Quintuple jumps ever be possible? Probably not unless humans evolve into different physical beings.

    I don't think there have been enough studies on the physical aspects of jumps in figure skating nor enough appropriate training for developing quads -- it's only been happening slowly and piecemeal without a proper understanding and appreciation of the long term impact on skaters' bodies. I came across the below article on the Internet, which makes interesting points:

    http://iceskatingresources.org/Triple&QuadJumps.html

    As to Weir and Lysacek, I agree with psycho: It's too soon to know what will happen. I do feel that both Weir and Lysacek are serious about making the effort to come back, and nothing that happened at Worlds this year, at least regarding the U.S. men, has likely put a damper on their enthusiasm.

    Below is a vid of Evan's new program performed at Ice Chips (poor clip filmed by an 8-year-old):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMUBfEV2MGo

    Evan's other performance at Ice Chips -- a bit better quality clip:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg5uTMhiWBg&feature=related
     
  14. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Has Takahashi a quad in SP? I must have missed it then. Yes, now in Worlds he jumped a successful quad in LP, but not in combination. How many times has he been successful with a quad in recent major competitions like Worlds? Not that many times is my impression, but maybe my memory is just bad.
     
  15. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    He attempted a 4 toe - 3 toe combo, quad was fine, but had a downgrade on the 3 toe and I think a fall as well.
     
  16. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    Above are the OP's thoughts in regards to this thread. Clearly, this thread is about IF Lysacek and Weir were to come back. Any comments to the effect of these two NOT coming back is off-topic, irritatingly repetative and stiflingly boring.
     
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  17. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    I actually don't care but I'd love to see Johnny back on the scene :)
     
  18. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    ^ Yup. I see Johnny sometimes in Hackensack. It's marvelous to see him training again. I hope he follows through :)
     
  19. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    If the come back, they could easily be 1 and 2, or 4 and 5. U.S men are headcases, so it's hard to say where they could place if they return. It would come down to which other men deliver at nationals, and how well trained both of them are.
     
  20. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    :confused: :huh:

    Lysacek's record at Nationals:

    1st (Novice) - 1st (Junior, then senior for the rest) - 12th - 12th - 7th - 5th - 3rd - 2nd - 1st - 1st - 3rd - 2nd

    Weir's record at Nationals:

    3rd (Novice) - 4th (Junior) - 5th (Junior, then senior for the rest) - 6th - 5th -
    WD* - 1st - 1st - 1st - 3rd - 2nd - 5th - 3rd

    These are the results of headcases? I wish I could be so continually successful as this...in ANY aspect of my life!

    * According to wikipedia, "Johnny Weir, who had been in medal contention after the short program, hit the barrier during his long program, got up and restarted his program, then had to withdraw..." (Weir was second after the SP.)
     
  21. DimaToe

    DimaToe Well-Known Member

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    I was reffering to the current field, which doesnt include Weir and Lysacek, since theyve been absent for two seasons, I should have clarified that :p
     
  22. twinsissv

    twinsissv Well-Known Member

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    :lol: ...and that newest of combo elements...the quad/ quad/ quad/quad into an elegant...QUAD!!! :lol:

    :rolleyes:SHEESH!!!
     
  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Can't they just create a rivalry between 2 other skaters? Like Miner-Rippon or Farris-Brown? I mean, I hope they don't, but it wouldn't be that difficult to do honestly. They don't need Johnny and Evan to come back to have news stories, plus neither will be competitive without a quad, which I doubt either has at this point considering they weren't doing them during the Olympic season. The press can get news stories about other skaters without these two coming back.
     
  24. Marroncream

    Marroncream New Member

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    Quad, Quad, Quad, Quad, Quad, Quad...
    Oh baby l like it.
    It's so exciting.
    Don't try to hide it.
    I'mma make you my b...

    :lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
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  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Well, what the 2 of them actually say and actually will do are 2 different things. However, US men's skating is in such sad shape right now that if they do come back, all power to them. They will probably be 1 or 2 with or without Abbott around. Abbott is too much of headcase (throwing in the towel).
     
  26. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Not at the Nationals, where either of them will be 2nd. And that one will be Evan, in my opinion.
     
  27. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    You are right about the changes in skating ... that quads are relatively common is precisely why quads don't drive news stories (not doing quads, by contrast, is newsworthy ... on a "man bites dog" rationale)
     
  28. nylynnr

    nylynnr Active Member

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    If Evan and Johnny return to competition, their quads or lack there of will be a major focus in the skating media . . . if they are training them; when they will try them; how many points they gain by doing/not doing; whether either will ever try two in a program; whether either will put the quad in the short. This season, Brandon's (early) quad Lutz; Jeremy talking about putting the quad in his short; and Rippon's pursuit of a quad were discussed. U.S. men doing quads will always drive a certain number of stories in the U.S., simply because quads carry a large amount of points and some top U.S. men don't do them.
     
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    LOL at anyone thinking Weir will be anywhere near the top even in the U.S if he comes back. :lol:
     
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  30. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    ^ Not so fast. Weir is looking very focused and serious in training. 3As are now looking simple for him, and he is about 50% on the 4T from what I have seen. Do not count him out yet!