lightning fast scratch spins

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by iarispiralllyof, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Messages:
    774
    scratch spins aren't seen as often under IJS but they used to be (for me) one of the most exciting parts of a skating program, especially if the skater could keep them very centered and fast

    these are some of my favorites. what about you?

    (I had no idea fumie suguri could spin so well)

    fumie suguri 2005 worlds
    http://youtu.be/4qoelYWKzsQ#t=241

    lucinda ruh
    http://youtu.be/M0fvU4wnp34#t=238

    dorothy hamill
    http://youtu.be/l2VuosSk9zU#t=4

    todd eldredge
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSgh4Xt4LU4#t=345

    not that fast but i love the position of a forward scratch spin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dINriD0lucU#t=230
     
  2. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,323
    Someone did one in SOI in Newark last week... I think it was Jeremy? or was it Jason? Josh? Yeah, it is always a crowd pleaser.
     
  3. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,469
    For years, Ronnie Ronnie Robertson was considered the gold standard for scratch spins. His went so fast it blurred. (Unfortunately, everything looks blurred on this video.)

    http://youtu.be/WNyTphquuEE?t=49s

    (BTW, anyone who wants to credit Bourne & Kraatz with developing the hydroblade move should keep it playing another 10 seconds or so after the spin.)

    Scott Davis was an especially good spinner and he often finished his programs with a scratch spin. I picked an example from an exhibition skate because it has more rotations that the ones in his competitive programs.

    http://youtu.be/MlCa7_7SY7U?t=2m29s

    Didn't Paul Wylie also use them, at least in his pro programs?

    Makes me kind of wish the ISU would change one of the FS spins to a choreo spin.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  4. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,857
    Sasha Cohen's one arm scratch. Not 'lightning fast', but wonderful unique position of the arm and excellent centering. It could've become a signature move for Sasha, but for some reason she stopped doing it after she left TT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  5. snoopysnake

    snoopysnake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,451
  6. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    639
    Dorothy's is making me blush.
     
  7. Marc2000

    Marc2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11
  8. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,361
    For current skaters, Gracie Gold has a very powerful one.

    For variation, I like Maria Butyskaya's with her hands behind so back...so elegant.
     
  9. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Messages:
    10,711
    Yulia Vorobieva :soapbox: Though sometimes it travelled to Azerbaijan and back.
     
  10. pollyanna

    pollyanna Don't blink

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    Messages:
    8,979
  11. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    23,284
    Miki Ando's 2003-2004 SP ended with a very good one.
     
  12. operagirl

    operagirl Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    452
  13. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,868
  14. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,423
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  15. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    91
    The legendary Dorothy Pamill had a very strong scratch spin.
     
  16. merrywidow

    merrywidow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2001
    Messages:
    4,420
    I immediately thought of Dorothy Hamill, Todd Eldredge & Paul Wylie.
     
  17. Rogueskater

    Rogueskater New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    25
    Craig Heath just seems to be able to spin forever. He just centers it and spins, changes position and edges with ease. Love his headless spin.

    Alisa Czisney is an amazing spinner.
     
  18. Johnny_Fever

    Johnny_Fever New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,101
    Nobody works on spins anymore. Spins are just mileage. You put in the hours, they speed up. You neglect them, they slow down.
     
  19. tarotx

    tarotx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,529
    I think more people work on spins these days it's just that the INS rewards other things than speed so we see less speed.
     
  20. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,335
    I wish they would allow for a skater to get a level feature for doing 8+ revolutions, and also for increasing in speed either within an upright spin that isn't a difficult variation, or when going from one position to another. That would give more incentive for skaters to do fast scratch spins, because it could help both the GOE and the level. And most decent skaters are capable of them (many do extremely fast scratch spins, usually back scratch spin, in warm up, and it's even very common for skaters to do nice and fast forward scratch spins on the Pre-Preliminary FS test).
     
  21. emason

    emason Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,284
    I'm remembering it as Jason, and he was exciting to watch.
     
  22. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
  23. Johnny_Fever

    Johnny_Fever New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,101
  24. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,183
    Didn't realize we were only talking about forward spins. We call both scratch spins at my rink, back scratch or forward scratch.
     
  25. Johnny_Fever

    Johnny_Fever New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,101
    We're not. I was just making an observation.
     
  26. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,568
    I can sort of understand why just doing 8+ revolutions, or increasing the speed, would not be considered difficult in a scratch spin. The increase in speed is pretty much inherent in the classic sequence of positions -- the degree of acceleration and final speed will vary, but those are more the kinds of qualities that are better rewarded in GOE. And 8 revolutions from start to end of the spin as a whole, from free leg extended to bent to pushed down, is not very impressive -- many pre-preliminary skaters can achieve that -- plus it doesn't fit the concept of 8 revolutions in the same position that applies to the 8 revs feature in other spins.

    What would make some good features, to allow for scratch spins to earn higher than level 1?

    Backward entry is already an option, for a back scratch spin.
    So is "headless" position if it counts as a difficult variation. Not sure this one was held long enough to qualify.

    Arm(s) overhead isn't difficult enough -- maybe behind the back?

    How about 8 revolutions with the free leg extended to the side (lifted at least 45 degrees? or would it have to be 90 to be difficult enough?), or side or forward attitude position (thigh parallel to the ice), before pulling in. That would be comparable to other 8-rev features. Not difficult enough to count as a difficult variation if held for 2 revs, but much harder to hold for 8.

    Or 16 revs total, or 8 revs with the free foot crossed and touching the spinning foot (i.e., at the end of the spin)? But if the spin is fast enough it will be hard to count those fast revolutions accurately.

    Give a feature for a significant, rapid acceleration of rotational speed? That will be up to the discretion of the technical panel, it's not a clear yes or no.

    Two changes of foot, with at least 8 revs after each change?

    Change of direction if and only if a crossed-foot position is achieved for at least 8 revolutions in both directions?

    Exactly. The basic scratch spin itself is a move that beginners learn, and some good spinners not far beyond beginner level can do it quite well.

    What we'd really want to reward in the best elite spinners are excellent speed combined with excellent centering, and strong positions, i.e., GOE qualities.
    So could the GOE values be set large enough that even a level B upright spin, or scratch spin specifically, with +3 GOE would be worth more than a level 4 upright with 0 or +1 GOE?
     
  27. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,277
    Kwan did that same arm position in East of Eden in 1999 but just in an upright / exiting spin, not a scratch spin.

    Speaking of Kwan, she did a good forward scratch in Kissing You.