Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, May 25, 2011.
Judgejudy = Johnny Weir
Judgejudy's threads remind me of this ditty:
Wanna be startin' somethin' ... gotta be startin' somethin'
But geez, ks777, why dis JWe?
It makes as much sense as the rest of this thread.
I don't want to dis Leonova, but I just couldn't get past this. No Russian lady can be mentioned in the same breath as the immortal legendary saintress Butyrskaya.
Oh, there was a time before Maria reached enlightenment ... when she was an experimenting student rising out of the end of Soviet youth culture.
And experimenting with pink!
And there is more ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chfsHzUwu5E
ETA - Just got to watch the program. Unfortunately that outfit really highlighted how stiff Maria's legs were. Shame because I really enjoy her skating. I liked the spiral sequence and she had some very good transitions into the jumps.
^we do not see such programs/such costumes enough.
I dunno, I'm thinking that Aliona S's Pink Panther outfit this year might have been inspired by this
Well it was a very 90s fashion trend, particuarly the style of skirt.
Well her costume made me think of early Maria ... and Ivanova
And Olga Markova.
Yes! Where have all the voids gone?!
I love that outfit. Looks great and works so well with the program.
Here's Ivanova in a program that I like ... and what do you know, more gloves ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPjF0YK5ylw
... and another (was her pink glider wing armed costume supposed to be a gypsies outfit a la Cohen's sp costume 2006?) ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imcuCxxpS48&feature=related ...
... here she is in top form and ready to go clubbing ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y79cQ8nVfQI
Thanks so much for posting those Ivanova programs. I loved those.
The pink glove was all about the hands, wasn't it?
The gypsy one was excellent. So musical. Fantastic interpretation.
And you can't go past Disco Gershwin. Something we just don't get anymore.
But the thing I really loved about her skating was the fluidity over the ice. There is no friction with her blade. It is seemless. No wonder she was so highly ranked for the time because her skating skills were excellent.
As I recall, Ivanova was really good at figures, not so good at free skate. (Please feel free to set me straight, if I have a bad memory.) I always felt sorry for her because her federation wasn't much interested in singles skaters at that time. Remember the US commentator calling attention to her 'dirty skates'?
Yeah Ivanova was definitely more of a figures specialist after she returned from her suspension in 1984. She usually was very inconsistent in the free skate, and rarely did clean long programs. She often did do a clean and pretty good short program though.
Before her suspension 1981 and earlier she struggled in figures but was better at free skating then later years. She was a more consistent jumper then compared to later years.
In this era of rotated fall programs I see Kira's falls differently, particularly:
- her fall on 2A-half loop-3S in 1978 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgNVlbwJafQ
- her falls on 3Lz during 1988 Euros and Olympics
- numerous 3Lp attempts, some successful, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHXzax1HhcE
As well as gems during meltdowns, such as her 3T-2T-2Lp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXy6zniVSPk
The Soviet Federation would have gladly politiced away higher ordinals in Ladies singles for dance and pairs ordinals.
Irina carried so much speed that she is unimitable. Her upper body was so jerky, especially her arms and neck. Leonova's skating rhythm is different. She doesn't have the jerky head and arms (or Slutskaya's bouncy edges). She has far less power and doesn't mimic Irina's signature movements.
Aside from the fact that both have bubbly personalities, they really aren't many similarities. Irina was one of the best and the only lady who could challenge Kwan on a regular basis.
Leonova finished fourth in what was generally a poorly skated ladies free skate at Worlds. She won't do that well again unless she improves remarkably. Asada, Murakami, Makarova (sp?), Alissa are all better skaters than her and there will be more next year (i.e. Nagasu, Lepisto).
Although I appreciate Leonova's joyful expression, she is lacking in so many areas where Irina shone, particularly speed and power. I've never agreed that Irina skated like a truck driver and didn't find her upper body movements jerky. However, Leonova in my view skates like a truck driver in the sense that she is very unpolished.
I agree with you that Slutskaya had an underrated power that captivated the senses in a way other skaters did not. She also improved throughout the years artistically. Still, her upper body movements-- her arm movements and head carriage- were totally non-musical and at times very ugly. Leonova does not have the distracting or ungraceful styles of arm waving that were characteristic of Slutskaya.
I don't care that she is not a polished skater. Sometimes they are the most enjoyable to watch. She probably had the most interesting and exciting program in the ladies event at worlds. And her performance level was amazing and I loved the character and personality she showed.
She also had the most exciting hair.
Because Leonova's idol is Slutskaya, Irina seems to have a strong emotional connection to Leonova.
It would be nice if Butyrskaya was idolized too. She had an interesting Russian style. Have any of the young skaters mentioned Butyrskaya as a role model?
Alena's new EX
Very different style for her, and actually I see some similarity with Slutskaya here, but in a good way
It would be nice to hear of one but I havent yet. Slutskaya was always the real famous one in Russia except for possibly the 9 months after Maria won Worlds, but when Irina's comeback gained steamed the focus was immediately back on her.
The only thing I see Leonova having in common with Slutskaya is the lively personality on the ice. Other than that, Irina was far superior in every aspect of FS. At age 17, Irina had already landed a 3sal-3loop in a competition. I do like Leonova, but I would never compare her with Irina. Unless she makes significant strides in the next year or two, her spot on the Russian team could be in jeopardy. BTW I loved her Witches LP at the recent worlds, and there was a great shot of Irina with tears in her eyes. I think she was just happy for a fellow Russian lady.
I do miss Maria Butyrskaya because we don't hear much about her. She had a lovely, elegant, mature style. I still liked irina more though.
I did find Maria and Irina had totally different styles and strengths which is why I enjoyed their rivalry. Ivanova, Kondrashova, and Voderezova were all different from one another as well.
Makarova and Leonova are both going to have the heat on them in a big way when the current Russian juniors become age eligible.
There's a chance neither Makarova or Leonova go to Euros/Worlds next season. It's not likely, but Shelepen, Sheveleva, Agafonova, Ovcharova, Birukova and Korobeinkova will all be age eligible for those events this coming season and it's not out of the realms of possibility that any 3 of those given skaters could beat Leonova and Makarova at Russian Nats and bump them off the team, sort of a la what happened to Rippon and Abbott at US nationals this season. I know all the focus is on Adelina and Liza who aren't eligible for another season, but there are quite a few talented ladies who will be eligible this season and can certainly challenge for those spots at Worlds/Euros.
The judges preferred Kostner.
It was definitely the most exciting performance at worlds in the ladies competition. I wish she could have medalled.
The 3rd to 5th place performances at Worlds were in many ways better than the gold and silver. Kim not only made a slew of mistakes but looked so bored and unmotivated as if she were doing runthroughs of her program in practice, and Ando was typical Ando.
Alena's style irks me the same way Irina's style irked me. There's very little musicality in the movement, but there is an energy and happiness there that's refreshing. I can admit that Alena, by far, had the most enjoyable skate at worlds this year. Her energy and exuberance brought the house down...plus she was the only one who actually looked like they were having any fun.
Still, I can't stand her skating, especially when the judges gift her with absurdly high PCS, which she often gets. I'm glad she had such a good showing at worlds because the field will be ridiculously tough next season with many of the Russian babies being eligible for senior worlds...
But once Adelina and Liza T make the jump, forget about it...she won't stand a chance.
And your point is? The judges preferring Kostner has nothing to do with the validity of Aussie Willie's description of what she likes about Leonova's skating.
You don't have to be so defensive. My point was that Leonova got lower performance/execution and components than Kostner. It's worth considering that some people, perhaps the judges, did not find Leonova exciting or enjoyable.
Separate names with a comma.