Lady Gaga on Ice declaim against ISU:they make figure skating losing its beauty

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by luCN, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    It's from the ArOI press conference,but I think many people will intersted in it,so I open a new thread for it,hope it's ok.
    (rough translate for the main part)

    another artical about it:
    http://roll.sohu.com/20110722/n314201283.shtml
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011
  2. Justathoughtabl

    Justathoughtabl Active Member

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    I have to agree that beauty should be given more attention in skating.
     
  3. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    Beauty is subjective.
     
  4. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    well,actually I don't agree to the whole thing he said.But I always agree about his criticism about Plushenko.As he said before,Plushenko and Lysacek are the same kind of people,they concern about medals too much,they always concern about landing jumps successfully,about getting points,but always neglect the artisty and beauty...

    I really hope when Lysacek and Plushenko come back this season,they can enjoy the competition and bring some beauty,not just points and medals...
     
  5. edonice

    edonice New Member

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    Sure, there are more restrictions now. But they can be seen as an opportunity for creativity.

    Virtue and Moir's free dance at the Olympics was transcendent, even with the incredibly high level of difficulty in their performance. Their movements had meaning. They made it work for them. I'd even argue that the high number of required elements forced them to be more creative, and made the performance better.

    Same with Yuna Kim.

    It's not that gorgeous performances can't still exist. It's that it's harder to do.
     
  6. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    I don't think it's an issue of lack of artistry, because there were plenty of 6.0 programs that were less than artistic (possibly a majority). But what COP has done, at least from my viewpoint, is vastly reduced the variety that we used to see in skating. For example, back in the day we usually only saw Bielmann spins from people who could do them well. Now just about every lady is including them, even if it's an obvious struggle, because it's a way to get more points.

    Or consider footwork - to get the higher levels skaters need to use the full dimension of space or some b.s. like that, so we see skaters bobbing up and down with no relation to the music in an effort to get to a higher level, whereas before, that type of motion would usually have only been seen if it was inspired by the music. So today it seems very :blah: whereas before it would have stood out.

    The rules in and of themselves, by defining specific features that differentiate one level from another, have to some extent encouraged a "skate by numbers" approach to choreography. The end result is that there's really very little that's "free" about the free skate anymore, and that's what bothers me a bit. It's definitely still possible to have a wonderful, artistic program to COP (see Jeff Buttle's Ararat as an example :swoon:), but in between those highlights we're subjected to what seems like an awful lot of monotonous contortions and code-whoring.
     
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  7. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    So who are "Lady Gaga on Ice" ??
     
  8. VALuvsMKwan

    VALuvsMKwan Wandering Goy

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    I was stumped by that as well, until I saw "Weir" attributions to quotes within the extract from the article that was posted.

    So one assumes that JW is LGOI. ;)
     
  9. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    So Johnny is just being described as Lady Gaga on Ice?

    That's sad. I thought this would mean he is going to get his dream ice show produced.
     
  10. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    That certainly wasn't the attitude he was expressing in the post-Olympic interviews, where he complained he never had a shot at a medal because the North American "spot" on the podium was already "taken" by the time he skated :rolleyes:
     
  11. marbri

    marbri Hey, Kool-Aid!

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    And ironic considering he is talking about beauty on ice :slinkaway
     
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  12. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    Maybe he has evolved? Or are we to expect that no one can grow / change / adapt over the course of a year and a half?
     
  13. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    I do understand the frustrations many people feel with the constraints of the new system, but under 6.0 we saw a few transcendent programs and a huge number of mediocre ones. Most 6.0 programs would be considered "fridge breaks" today.

    Today there are still just a few truly transcendent programs, but overall skating quality is higher and I'm enjoying many more skaters.

    Under the new system we're seeing much better quality step sequences and spins across the board, and cheating of jumps/poor flow out is no longer considered acceptable. It used to be that even world medalists could get away with crappy spins and simple stroking between elements. When I go back and watch older videos now, I'm usually disappointed in what I see. (And the videos that made it to onto Youtube are generally of the better performances.) There was a lot of posing, especially in the slow part in the middle (which was generally designed for skaters to catch their breath), unrelated musical selections were spliced together with no unifying concept, poor skating skills, etc. Our expectations are much higher today.

    The freedom to be creative did not lead, overall, to great creativity and high standards back in the day, because people could win without it. We should probably find a way to liberalize COP, but IMO we shouldn't romanticize the reality of how people used (or in fact didn't use) the freedom that 6.0 gave them. In other words, I feel that as we tweak the new system, we should make sure to retain the benefits that COP has brought.
     
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  14. AYS

    AYS Cruder than you thought

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    I agree with everything you said. I was noticing at Liberty how much COP has just plain ruined my enjoyment of certain things like spinning, because the focus is on doing the few things that are sure to get levels. As a result, very few people were doing high quality spins. And generally, the skating was a bit boring to me, for the reasons you've outlined.
     
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  15. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I thought spin was one of the thing that has gotten better with the new judging system. Initially under IJS the spins were painfully slow because of all the various pretzel positions skaters were doing and they weren't used to it. But now, eventhough most of the skaters are hitting the same sort of positions, the spins are faster, more centered, and better position on the camels and sits.
     
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  16. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I wasn't saying that it is sad he is being described that way. Just that it's sad that is all the article is about, because I thought it meant there would be a Lady Gaga on Ice, as Johnny keeps talking about wanting.
     
  17. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    My :rolleyes: was about his explanation why he didn't receive a medal in Vancouver, not about the possibility that he might have changed his attitudes since then.
     
  18. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    I agree with him in terms of ice dancing. It has really lost a lot under the new system. It's more skating from one element to another than dancing. It's hardly as dramatic, elegant and romantic as it used to be. There are actually only a few dance teams whose performances I find exciting or just purely beautiful. Many of them are just boring.

    And I would also say CoP does pay too much attention to unnoticeable details sometimes. It doesn't really leave any space for the skater to show his/her personality. Free programs are hardly free anymore. I know 6.0 was terrible, unjust and hurting badly many wonderful skaters, cause it was basically giving people medals for reputation, but it is also true that Yagudin or Kwan would never happen under CoP.

    But then again, I agree that the quality of skating has improved dramatically. CoP has definitely given us better spins, steps and more complex programs. I just think it could give the skaters a bit more space to be themselves, otherwise in a couple of years we'll be left with an army of styleless but technically amazing Chans.
     
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Please move this to the trash can! :scream:
     
  20. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    oh boy I don't prefer Weir's kind of beauty that's for sure. that guy was given with wonderful programs, full of interesting trasitions at the olympic season. and What did we see? If he does attend at Sochi olympics, it'll be a pity.
     
  21. Justathoughtabl

    Justathoughtabl Active Member

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    Again, I bring up Stephane Lambiel's suggestion to make the short program the more technical one and the free program the more artistic one, so skaters can show their artistry/creativity. I don't know how serious Lambiel was, but it sounded interesting to me.
     
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  22. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    another artical about it:
    http://roll.sohu.com/20110722/n314201283.shtml
     
  23. Nikki Lee

    Nikki Lee Active Member

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    Lovely comment.
     
  24. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts exactly. If Lady Gaga's type of shtick represents beauty, I'll take ugliness, thanks.
     
  25. mmscfdcsu

    mmscfdcsu Skating Pairs with Drew

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    Beauty is not teen pop numbers such as Gaga, or totally ego centered numbers. Artistry does not consist of using the same tired old moves in the same order no matter what music is playing. I am beyond sick of the donut spin, ice slide and triple toe or triple lutz combined with the fire hydrant leg lift.
     
  26. Margaret

    Margaret New Member

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    Oh come on, he's had two exhibition numbers to Lady Gaga and most of his programs, both competitive and exhibition, have been lyrical and even traditional figure skating. It wasn't long ago when he was slammed for being "the prima ballerina on the ice". People forget easily.
     
  27. mmscfdcsu

    mmscfdcsu Skating Pairs with Drew

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    He has had plenty of pure ego numbers as well. My Way, the Jesus number, etc. It is supposed to be about entertaining the audience, not about hey look at me, I'm so special.
     
  28. Justathoughtabl

    Justathoughtabl Active Member

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    I wouldn't say he's saying "look at me, I'm so special" any more than Kurt Browning or Yuna Kim is. It's a performance. Ego has a place in artistry, I'd say. Art is supposed to be a reflection of the artist, right? So I love how he picks the music as a reflection of what's happening in his life. I personally LOVED My Way, as well as Feeling Good, All in Love in Fair, Unchained Melody, Imagine, etc. And I loved that number he did in Korea-- You Made Me Impressed. Yes, he does use a lot of the same moves, but he does them so well and with so much grace. I would love to see him team up with a creative choreographer for his next exhibition piece...someone who would say, "How about a different spin this time?" or "How about skipping the slide?" I'd say he'd really achieve something artistically if he could combine his natural grace with someone else's creative vision. Gosh, Fallen Angels (the trio number) was great.
     
  29. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I would say that Johnny has done many more programs that he has specifically said are about him and/or his life than either of these skaters have done.
     
  30. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    ^ This, exactly. And Patrick Chan manages to deliver artistry and beauty while also racking up points, as did Takahashi and Buttle. Sounds like sour grapes from Johnny. BTW, I also vote this thread be moved to the Trash Can, "cause I was bored this way." ;)