Ladies 3/3 firsts

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Triple Butz, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I've often wondered why certain records in figure skating get honored and remembered while others seem to go unnoticed. On that note, would anyone care to help me fill in some blanks on who were the first women to complete each type of 3/3 jump?

    3toe/3toe: Midori Ito (first PERSON to land any 3/3)

    3sal/3toe: Not sure, possibly Surya Bonaly?

    3loop/3toe: I've heard that Tonya Harding landed this at 88 US nationals, but have no video to go on. If not her, I think it would have to be Elena Sokolova in 97/98.

    3flip/3toe: Again, unsure. Midori was supposed to have this in her 1992 lp, but did she ever land it? Surya landed a few cheated ones in the 90's...

    3lutz/3toe: Midori and Kristi both landed this at the 1991 French GP, but Midori skated before Kristi, IIRC.

    3toe/3loop: Sarah Hughes in SLC 02? She also attempted it at Worlds in 2000. The only other person I can think of who lands this combo is Miki, in her Giselle LP in 2008 that she dumped.

    3sal/3loop: Irina Slutskaya and Tara Lipinski were both trying this combo in 1995/96 and I believe Tara landed it first either on the junior GP or at junior worlds. Slutskaya had a messy attempt at a GP that year but I can't recall her landing it cleanly until 97.

    3loop/3loop: Tara Lipinski at the 96/97 US Postal Service cheesefest.

    3flip/3loop: Miki landed this once on the GP in 04, around the time that Map was landing it in her jr sp...I can't recall any other attempts prior to that...I'm thinking Mao landed it first.

    3lutz/3loop: Irina Slutskaya at the 99/00 GPF. It was cheated, but did get ratified by the ISU.

    No woman has ever combined a 3A with another triple in competition (though there is video of Midori doing it in practice!)

    Not a 3/3, but I'm pretty sure Debi Thomas was the first woman to land a 2axel/3toe sometime in 85.

    All info/corrections appreciated!
  2. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Cool list! I also think the first 3sal-3toe is Surya's in 1993 (The earliest clean one I've seen from her)

    Midori did a gorgeous one at worlds in 84 (and 1984 Junior Worlds)
  3. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    The first person to land a 3/3 was Grzegorz Filipowski, not Midori Ito.
  4. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Hungary's Tamara Dorofejev landed this combo in the short program at the 2001 World Championships in Vancouver. She may have attempted it earlier in the season at the World Junior Championships and the European Championships as well.
  5. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I've always heard it was Ito at the jr worlds! Is there video of GF? Thanks.
  6. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    The only sources I can find so far is on wikepedia-and that could mean the source is reliable-or not:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grzegorz_Filipowski

    Per wikepedia:
    He turned pro in 1992 and currently has been living in Canada where he has been working as a coach in short track.
    He was the very first skater ever to perform a triple-triple combination of jumps (3 toe/3 toe).


    and shafersports.net - Fun facts
    http://shafersports.net/fun facts.html

    Grzegorz Filipowski of Poland was the first skater to perform a triple-triple toe loop combination in competition - 1980

    There doesn't seem to be any video footage of Grzegorz prior to 1988.
  7. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I can't find any videos of him prior to 1986.

    Like Ito, he was quite the prodigy. He landed that first triple-triple when he was only thirteen years old.

    JacksonSkates List of Skating First (Jumps)
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
  8. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I think Elaine was doing 2A-3t in the early 80s.
  9. pollyanna

    pollyanna Well-Known Member

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    Yes, she was. Here she is at age 14 at 1980 Worlds completing both a 2A-3t and a 2lutz-3t.
  10. pollyanna

    pollyanna Well-Known Member

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    Over at FSVids, there is a video of Grzegorz Filipowski at 1982 Euros where he completes a beautiful 3t-3t. He was 15 years old at the time. I've never seen video of the 1980 3t-3t, but he has long been credited as the first to complete that combo.
  11. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Sandra Stevenson in her BBC Book of Skating from 1983 states that Filipowski was awarded the 'unluckiest skater award' at the 1980 Worlds in Dortmund for being placed so low despite skating brilliantly and landing the worlds first 3/3 combination. I too have never seen any video of him doing this, but it's clear that he did considering the variety of references to this.

    Midori did hers at the 1982 Junior Worlds in Oberstdorf which actually took place in late 1981 when she was 12. You can see it here.

    Midori was also doing 2x/3t combo in late 1981 and landed a corker in exhibition at the NHK along with triple lutz, flip and loop again aged 12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMy_oP2xmR0. Waaay better than Elaine's but Elaine was for sure the first at 1980 Worlds.

    Regarding 3z/3t, Kristi was the first as she skated before Midori at 1991 Lalique. (Midori skated last.) I don't think Midori had done this before either as I remember a commentator saying this was her first appearance anywhere since those horrible crashes and injuries in Munich. Midori did do 3f/3t in practice at Albertville but not in her LP and of course the footage of her 3x/3t is very well known.

    The other first for Midori was doing a triple loop on the back of ANY combination (1983 Jr Worlds IIRC). I don't even know if a man had attempted combo's ending with a triple loop back then.
  12. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    was there someone other than Carolina Kostner practicing or doing 3-3-3
    (Carolina practiced 3F3T3L), but I think with the current rooles there is no reason to do them anyway
  13. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Mao landed a 3f/3t/3r at Japanese nationals in 02/03 but it was loaded with under-rotation. Shizuka practiced 3/3/3s, most notably 3s/3t/3r at the 06 Olympics official practices. I also remember Peter Carruthers saying that Slutskaya was landing 3s/3r/3r during practice on the 05 GP circuit. There is little incentive to do one now.
  14. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Pardon my ignorance, but what is an "r"?
  15. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    3r = 3lo.
  16. falling_dance

    falling_dance Well-Known Member

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    A Rittberger, also known as a loop.
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    1992 Albertville Olympics practice, right before the 1:00 minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKs7NFGnkOk
  19. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Well-Known Member

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    rittenberger (aka loop) jump
  20. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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  21. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    ^ Surya at 1989 World :yikes: You can't get me to watch that video again, but I know what I think about it ... "If figure skating jumps are defined by the skating going in, then do those count?"
  22. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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  23. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! That's why I love this place-I'm always learning! I new what the 'r' jump was but referenced Rittberger! (the first skater to perform this jump I assume?) :cool:
  24. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    She was fun to watch in exhibition (I did see her once and she was for sure one of the crowd's darlings) a diamond in the rough if ever there was one. COP would have killed her chances imo of even getting past qualifying. Compulsory figures likely would have done the same to her had she been born earlier. She had such horrific edge quality it is a wonder she got as far as she did.
  25. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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  26. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    The one at Worlds was better. But I agree that they are not perfect.
    But Kurt Browning's 4Toe, Miki Ando's 4Sal, Irina Slutskaya's 3Lz/3Loop were not perfect on the landing.
  27. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Those other "firsts" were a lot better, but I see your point. Surya was never going to get the benefit of the doubt from the ISU...probably Didier's fault.
  28. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    Part of Surya's problem on her 3lutz/3toe attempt was that she didn't have quality edges at the time, probably not until she turned pro. Transposing jumps from the gymnastics arena to the ice wasn't enough.

    She really struggled to squeak out and hold the landing after the second jump.
  29. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    Ok, perhaps not the 3lutz-3toe (under-rotated 2nd jump), but perhaps Surya was the first to do 3toe-half loop-3salchow?
  30. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Or the 3sal/3toe or 3flip/3toe? She did some cheated 3flip/3toes in competition, but her 3sal/3toe was a much better combination...did anyone do these before Surya??

    Also, can anyone confirm that Tonya Harding landed a 3loop/3toe at 88 US Nationals? If she didn't, my guess would be Sokolova as the first to do this in 97/98.
  31. CaptCrunch

    CaptCrunch New Member

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    Yes, Harding landed a 3loop/3toe combo in the LP in Denver (88 Nationals). Landing of the 3toe was a little rough.

    Video of this performance is very tough to find. One would have to get the Ledin video in order to see it since ABC did not show Tonya that year.
    bardtoob and (deleted member) like this.
  32. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info...the things I would do to see that video!!! :lol:

    Considering she landed the most difficult combo of any woman by that time, I'm surprised she didn't beat Kadavy in the free...but that's for the "worst judging" thread.
  33. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    and the lutz looks like it comes from almost a flat edge:yikes: none of the jumps rotated at all....
  34. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    They mention here that the US "replaced the third girl [with Elaine Zayak] so Elaine could get into world competition." Was the USFSA allowed to do this whenever it wanted back then? Maybe the USFSA should look at its old practices when it used to win medals.
  35. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    It wasn't just the USFSA who replaced a skater - Sandy Lenz with Zayak for 1980 Worlds - but the CFSA replaced Heather Kemkaran with Tracey Wainman too. I think Zayak's call up for Worlds was decided at Nationals as I remember Dick Button mentions it during a Lake Placid broadcast where they showed Elaine in the audience. In an era of reputation and 'wait your turn' politics it really worked for Elaine as she was on the podium at Worlds the very next year.
  36. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    It worked for Wainman and a lot of other newcomers as well.

    In Dortmund she placed one spot higher (14th) that Kemkaran did at the Olympics in Lake Placid, and in 1981, Tracy broke into the top ten which is something Heather never did.

    Worlds in 1980 also marked Witt's debut, too where she finished 10th to Debi Cotrill's 9th. In 1981, they were 5th and 4th respectively.

    Hard to believe also when Claudia Binder finished 5th in Dortmund, that Austria had 3 ladies in 1981!
  37. acraven

    acraven Active Member

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    Yes, I think the decision was made at Nationals, though I'm not sure how I learned that in those pre-Internet days. Maybe it was mentioned during the Nationals broadcast. Sandy Lenz was a very good skater, but Elaine had wowed a lot of folks with a triple-packed free skate, and I think a decision was made to spread the wealth, as it were: Lenz got the big prize, the Olympics, and Zayak got Worlds.
  38. pollyanna

    pollyanna Well-Known Member

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    Skating Magazine made no mention whatsoever of this in their recap of 1988 U.S. Nationals. :( IMHO, even though Harding didn't make the podium, this achievement should have been reported.
  39. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely. It was the most difficult combination that any woman had landed at that point. When Tara Lipinski became the first to land her 3r/3r it seemed like there were planes carrying banners with news. I wonder how much had to do with the USFSA's lack of support for Tonya and how much had to do with Tonya not having an agent and not knowing how to promote herself in the sport. Probably a combination of both.

    On another note: Does anyone know ken Surya first landed 3sal/3toe? I've been digging, and I can't find any other women in the early 90's doing this combo.
  40. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    This might be totally academic, but if a skater can rotate in both directions, he/she can have a combo with the 2nd jump something other than a loop or toe loop.

    There is a video somewhere os Shizuka doing a triple-triple-triple.