Kurt Browning, Evgeni Plushenko on similar paths

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by spikydurian, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502

    Yep, he will forever be the one and the only Plushenko, and that's saying a lot. He gets loads of respect from people, even those who are not necessarily huge fans. He unfortunately lost his perspective and sportsmanlike attitude when Lysacek won gold in 2010. Certainly Lysacek is not a skating God, but Plush's reaction to being beat did not win him any fans (particularly among TPTB in fs and general public). Sure "in the last couple of years," Plush has been working on his carriage over the ice, on his artistic side, and on transitions more than he had been doing circa 2003 - 2006. When Plush came back for 2010 Olympics, he was still relying on jumps, charm and footwork, while his upper body was not doing very much.

    Yes, figure skating is a very subjective sport, GoGreen. Yes, take Yags out of the equation too. You're right, Plush did have some kickin' artistic programs (for that era) before and after Yags retired. And in any case, I'm not one of those Yags ubers who believes that Yags was such a King in the area of artistry either. Under TT's tutelage, Yags was just beginning to explore his artistic side at 2002 Olympics. Both Yags and Plush were initially coached by Mishin, so the focus for both of them was more heavily on jumps, IMO. Again, Yags left Mishin and began to expand his focus. I concede that Plush wasn't a total slouch artistically once Yags retired. But Plush did not continue to deeply explore artistic expression because he had no one to challenge him consistently in that area.

    Plush's artistry is not nonexistent (it is rather distinctive, instinctive and deriving from his personality). However, landing his jumps with a more upright carriage, paying attention to stretch, grace, fluidity and smooth moves over the ice was never Plush's strong suit. And it wasn't until Johnny Weir came along circa 2004 - 2006 that those qualities began to be more appreciated, sought after, and rewarded in skaters like Buttle and Lambiel. Even Joubert had to struggle with the new way men were being looked at. IOW, Joubert too had to begin working harder on improving his landing carriage, choreo, stretch, spin positions, and transitions (and obviously all of these factors also became more important under the new judging system).
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  2. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    Of course. Plushy was unbeatable, he was a real dominant skater. Those forum members who are fans of other skaters, begun to hate him. And they created some explanations, which belittled him. So the ENVY is the real reason, why is overflowing bad mouth on FSU towards Plushy. I think on FSU the members don't know or don't remember his programs, or don't want to remember...
  3. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    WOW and again WOW! IF you follow him, you would know he didn't lost the people's respect after Vancouver. On the contrary, for example 2010 on GSA show Torino, the people demonstrated their support and love. Plush couldn't skate because the crowd cheering for him!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-T1Jn-ebYo
    delirium for Plushenko 3 minutes!

    And that isn't true, Yag more artistry skater like Plush, look at their early years, Plush has a congenital presentation skills.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1vHflKsyU0 and
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCw1ZvLRvU listen to D: Button!
    Yag's had 3-4 super programs choreographed by Tarasova, no more.

    And I do not want to Plushy skates like Lambiel, or Weir. Plushy is the man on ice! I think this is one of the reasons, why the crowd go crazy for him, because he does the figure skating a manly way. Do you remember of his program on ECH 2012? He had a real masculine power.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  4. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    90
    I have to admit I vaguely remember that one but not by exact words.

    But the question and the complete answer is
    But nevertheless, he smiled (though probably bitterly) and shook Lysacek's hand on the podium. Same as Dai did (not smiling bitterly part of course) out there.
  5. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    I'm sure Plush did not "lose the people's respect" in his own country lala, nor the respect of his adoring fans no matter the country.

    However, I don't think the TPTB in figure skating were happy with Plush's reaction to not winning the gold in 2010. I'll bet Plush did have to work on regaining favor with TPTB, because even tho' Russian fed was also upset for Plush not winning, Plush's unsportsmanlike comments did not represent very well on the big stage, and definitely were not appreciated by everyone. It's Plush's reputation as a champion that obviously helped him overcome giving the finger to ISU judges at 2010 Olympics. Still, Plush and Russian fed are powers to be reckoned with too so quads became mandatory post-2010, especially when Chan (following Plush's heed) mastered them.

    Thanks VarBar for your article link.

    Indeed, Plush is right that Lysacek "won because of the judges," and that generally will always be the case (the judges necessarily will have something to do with it ;)), but a skater winning Olympic gold is also because of hard work, determined effort, athleticism, clean programs when others falter, fed support, and often skating politics.

    As to Yags and Plushy and their "artistry," I much prefer the skating and artistry of Urmanov and Abt. I even enjoy Kulik's skating more. Altho' I do admit that Yags and Plushy took men's skating to a different level (especially Yags with the beauty of his jumps and the impact of his great desire and determination at 2002 Olympics). :)

    And now, I'd like to praise Kurt Browning for coming back to skate one of his iconic programs competitively at the age of 46. Now that's amazing!
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  6. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    I personally really respect Plushenko, and I don't think that he has no artistry at all as many other people say. I rather agree with aftershocks that his artistry is more instinctive and coming from his personality. I also agree that he has been quite versatile if we look at his whole skating career, but, from what I have seen (not everything), lately his peresentation/artistry also in exhibition programs hasn't been that versatile - imho. But, admittedly, he's trying to be a bit different in his new LP.

    As for "hating" him, it may be true of some people, but you can't say that about all people who don't like Plushenko's skating and/or like other skaters better. Probably they just value different things in skating more, so they don't have to "create explanations". For them, these are the real reasons for liking other skaters better, not something that's just made up. Saying that all of us just "hate'' Plushenko for being unbeatable, is disrespectful towards our opinions. Also, your attitude is disrespectful towards other skaters who actually are no worse than Plushenko, but just haven't had their best qualities rewarded as much by the system as his best quality - jumps - has been rewarded. Of course, I am not talking about Yagudin now, since he was also a great jumper, and was accordingly rewarded for that (and other things). But, the thing is, there are people (including me) who love other skaters more because of their better qualities - skating skills, carriage/lines/grace, or a different kind of artistry than Plushenko's. Saying that we are just "creating" those explanations, is like belittling those skaters and their qualities.
  7. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    THX! It's enough for me. Of course,matter of taste, who is our favorite, and I respect the other skaters. But we, Plushy's fans are so angry when some people say that he isn't artistry, and say unreal thing about him. You know we have an interview with Maya Plisetskaya, she is the most famous balerina in XX. century. She said about Plushenko-I think she knows what is the beauty and what is the real art.
    PLUSHENKO: HANDSOME AND UNREACHABLE

    E.S. - I cannot not ask you about Plushenko.

    M.P.- He is our favourite. He is so good that it looks like nobody can beat him. I can't imagine who can be better. He is a master, a great master who does everything beautifully, brilliantly and artistically. Also, he always looks so confident that we, his fans, cannot be not confident. He skates like an artist who knows that he is the best. Other skaters think that they are good too, but they have doubts and get nervous. Plushenko on the contrary always knows that he is much better than others, and he convinces all of us in it. He not just "works" on ice, he dances on ice masterly, and that is a wonderful thing to see.

    E.S.- What do you think about his appearance?

    M.P.- I think his appearance is fine. He is tall, striking, with a handsome body and long arms. He is not some cute guy from the postcard, thanks god he is not!, but he has the perfect face for the stage. The ice is the stage too.

    E.S.- Who does he remind you among ballet dancers?

    M.P.- He looks like Godunov, the Russian ballet dancer. The same type- tall, handsome, self-confident, with long waving in the wind and pirouettes blond hair. In ballet he would be perfect at parts performed by Godunov. He has the temperament and virtuosity for that."

    Don't you believe her? :)
  8. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    ITA with your comments lauravvv!


    No, of course Plushy doesn't and should not "skate like" any other skater. Every skater to be truly great must find their own identity on the ice. Part of what makes Dai Takahashi so great IMHO, is that he has been inspired by his peers to improve all aspects of his own skating. Dai constantly seeks to challenge himself to get better. Dai has more stretch and musicality and fluid carriage than he had when he first broke on the scene in 2004 - 2005, but he expresses those qualities through his own personality and uniqueness.

    I agree that Plushy indeed has a powerful personality and great will, and that it is the force of his personality which makes him a dynamic and charismatic skater. However, Plush as I said before was not consistently challenged to keep improving, particularly in the area of artistic expression. Even at 2006 Olympics, Johnny Weir's iconic Swan was placed behind Plush in the sp, due to Plush's powerful persona, great jumps, reputation with the judges, will of a champion (and sure "machismo"), but not due to Plush's less than stellar choreography and lack of transitions.

    Plush obviously loves figure skating. It has been his life. He wants to make history re winning more than one Olympic gold medal. He wants to transcend the mortal ravages of age. Even should he for some reason be unable to compete at Sochi (highly unlikely since he is obviously trying to pace himself) what Plushenko has thus accomplished in the sport is remarkable and legendary. Fans of Plush may think of him as an artistic God, but IMO, Plush will ultimately be remembered for his jumps, his will, his personality, his championship wins, his rivalry with Yagudin, and for his charisma on the ice, not for his artistry.

    And since you bring "masculinity" into the discussion, yes, Plush may well also be most remembered for his fun and self-mocking Sex Bomb than for any of his more artistic programs. :lol:

    AND AGAIN, shout out to Kurt for his courage, hard work and brilliance! Maybe another thread should be started in Trash Can to discuss Plushenko's qualities, appeal to his fans, etc.


    Okay, WOW lala, re your previous post #47, why can't you simply enjoy Plushenko without needing to have everyone else enjoy him and see in him everything that you do? Many people who are not enamored of Plush's skating greatly respect him and his accomplishments. In this thread, I have qualified and clarified and explained my statements re how I view Plushenko in terms of artistry. What more are you seeking here? There will always be debates and disagreements and differing perceptions, etc., among everyone who follows figure skating. Differing opinions, viewpoints and perceptions of Plushenko do not negate yours.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  9. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    90
    Lala, no reason to convince other people that Plushenko is artistic. In his fans eyes, he is and is the best out there. But in other people's eyes, maybe he is not artistic at all. You will never convince somebody who cannot get it.

    To all other people discussing this already OT subject, I think all fans, no matter if they are Plushenko fans or other skaters fans, we could not take insults or ignorant to something untrue. That is to say, if you argue that Plushenko's programs lack of transitions or his spin is not as good as Lambiel, I do not think Plushy fans will feel being offended. But his skating is really not all about jumps, otherwise he could not be so successful over the years. Especially about his artistry, a skater who skated Tribute to Nijinsky beautifully cannot be lacking artistry.

    Back to Kurt's article, I do think ISU should get rid of some of the spinning positions, they are just so ugly!!!!!
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Yes, indeed, I loved Alexander Godunov -- he was a wonderful actor too in the movie, Witness. :) How unfortunate his untimely death. Yes, I can see that comparison between Godunov and Plushenko, most definitely. The only difference is that Plushenko doesn't appear to have trained very much in ballet at all. I'm sure if Mishin* had made that an important focus of Plush's off-ice training, we would not even be having this debate. Foregone conclusion that Plush might likely already have two Olympic gold medals, because if he had brought great balletic artistry, stretch, grace and transitions with his jumps (despite his bobbles in his fp) at 2010 Olympics, he would have trumped Evan. Inman would have been unable to send an email to judges pointing out Plush's disregard for and lack of transitions.


    * Indeed if Mishin would make ballet training more a focus of Gachinski's training, he too would make an admirable Godunov on ice. Demonstrating balletic attributes doesn't make any male dancer or figure skater less masculine. Plush may similarly have Godunov's handsome self-confidence and dramatic flair, but IMO he has little of Godunov's balletic grace.

    This thread was started re Kurt Browning's comments on returning to competition, so please let's take the Plushenko discussion elsewhere!

    Thanks yaya, I see you are trying to bring us back on topic.
  11. anna1506

    anna1506 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Messages:
    36
  12. unicorn

    unicorn Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    245
    Hey, dear Plushy fan, Plushy looks endearing in those videos. I happen to have some Yag's videos too. And these are not choreographed by Tarasova. ;) In my humble opinion, more interesting than his amateur programs.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vSbH4XXyXY&feature=relmfu

    Like some, some other skaters' sour fans to be more precise, say he only has/had jumps, huh?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=d2vUZCW6hHA&NR=1

    What Scott Hamilton said here has nothing to do with artistry, but whoa, are you sure you did not overrate Yagudin, Mr Hamilton?
    It's like there's no way to beat him. Out jump him? He could jump too. Beat him on artistry? He has a teeny bit of that too. And a great command of his choreography? Sounds scary, he must have been overrated, definitely!:p
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  13. GoGreen

    GoGreen New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    51
    Whenever I read those long-winded analysis of Plushenko on FSU, I often got confused. By comparing each aspect of Plushenko to different skaters across two decades, aren't they trying to pay him the utmost compliment?

    I have followed FS long enough to witness all those comparisons unfolding in the past 15 years:

    - compare his jumping difficulty with that of Goebel;
    - compare his dominance and command of ice with that of Yags;
    - compare his lines and extensions with Eldredge then or Weir/Buttle now;
    - compare his charisma on ice with Browning or Candoloro;
    - compare his skating skills with Chan;
    - compare his versatile styles, his artistry, his projection, consistency, posture, air position, landing position, skating speed, speed in and out of jumps, height and distance of jumps, ice coverage, edge quality, etc. with (insert your skater of choice for each category here).......

    I prey that one day I will see some analysis on how Nathan Chan or any of the up and coming youngsters is better than Plushenko in terms of this and that. That day will probably cement his stature in figure skating history.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  14. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    I read this forum a long time ago, and I got bored, how mocked Plushy and praised the rest. And I'm a fighting mode. :)
  15. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    I have seen the whole Yagudin's programs, and I remember his presentation marks, when he was young. :) And I remember Plushy's presentation marks :)
    In my country the commentator said about Yagudin, he is a great jumper but he need to improve the artistic side. :)
  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Oh boy, back to Plushy Yags tete a tete, because some people thought Kurt was "dissing" Plushenko, when he was actually praising him.

    How about discussing Kurt's return to competition with his classic, Singin' in the Rain program? Anyone?
  17. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    It seems, you understand the ballet better like Plisetskaya. :D But you are wrong, Plushenko has so many ballet lessons.
    "He had very good ballet training and was asked to be a professional. This is from his interview:
    Q: Is it true that you were invited to dance at Mariinski theater?
    Evgeni: Yes, it happened when I moved to Leningrad to train with Mishin. I was confused. I said: "You've got to ask my mother." My mom said that I had to decide myself. I chose skating."
    Do you think, any Russian skater miss the ballet lessons?:lol:

    So you don't know any facts about Plush.
  18. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    I love Kurt's Nyah program :lol:. really :)
  19. unicorn

    unicorn Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    245
    Yes I believe you. And later his movements on the ice became more and more stiff, and used lots of frantic arm flailing only. I guess that's because he had to compete against Yagudin, huh? He had to focus on the jumps. I remember Alexei Mishin told Lambiel not to move his body too much, it could affect the execution of technical elements, very smart strategy. Look how stupid Yagudin was, used lots of upper body movement, and put lots of emotion into his programs, and yet the marks were low, what a waste. ;)
  20. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    I admire Yag! :p .... You don't say Plushy lack of artistry ;)
  21. unicorn

    unicorn Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    245
    What can I say? ;)
  22. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    I profess I don't know as many "facts" about Plush as you apparently do. However, since I've followed skating for years, and watched Plush's skating for years and seen him in television interviews and features, and watched a Plush documentary, maybe I do know a few things. But yes, you seem more than capable of correcting me and refreshing my memory. :D

    In any case, just because Plush, Irina, and Alena Leonova for that matter, are Russian does not mean they are necessarily "balletic" in their styles of skating. If Plush took ballet training before he went to Mishin, then he must have stopped focusing on ballet training once he came under Mishin's wing. Surely Plush had great potential as a dancer -- that is abundantly clear. But in the above interview, Plush is quoted as saying, "I chose skating." Therefore, he apparently stopped taking ballet lessons once he chose to become a skater. (What was his age when he went to train with Mishin?) IMO, Plush would have benefited by continuing some rigorous off-ice ballet training. I seriously doubt that happened, particularly because it does not seem that Mishin stresses the importance of ballet to gain more stretch, flexibility and grace on the ice.

    Altho' I am guilty of continuing to respond to your posts, lala, this is the wrong thread in which to continue this discussion if its solely about Plush, his artistry and his ballet training.
  23. spikydurian

    spikydurian New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,684
    Poor Kurt (again) :( Look at the commotion your tweets have created. Tweet in paragraphs, be concise and specific if you ever tweet the P word again otherwise be prepard to be .... :lynch:
    Really and (deleted member) like this.
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,396
    Of course Plitsetskaya would choose a Bolshoi guy! :) Plushenko is more Bolshoi, with Yagudin having been more Mariinsky.

    I think Plushenko is better looking than Godunov, that he looks more like Liepa (the father, Vasiliev's contemporary), and that he'd have been great in Vasiliev's roles, although his Crassus would be as good as his Spartacus.
  25. Lanie

    Lanie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    4,647
    :rofl: Uber-fans are funny. I used to really enjoy Plush. I've been quite disappointed in him since after, oh, 2004-2005? Boring programs.
  26. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    The truth...;) only the truth
  27. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    Not only Plisetskaya choose Plush, do you know who is Tsiskaridze? Principal dancer in Bolshoi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkq47A41cA
    He really admires Plush.
  28. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    He has ballet training continuously!! David Avdish his friends and his choreoghrapher-i know you don't like him- is ballet dancer and choreographer!! If you have time look at this.
    The legendary Nijinsky program, eleven 6.0!! Perfect.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkq47A41cA
    The choreographer was a young ballet dancer in Balshoi, Yuriy Smekalov.
    A German documentum film:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V284...Ve4SU3ZN4FiGlgkA&index=124&feature=plpp_video

    And if you want to know what think the Russians about Plush( Kostomarov etc.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBqGEGsRigc Plushy had not only ballet lessions but Mishin brought him a teacher, who teached Plushy how to make faces in perfromance.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  29. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    Yes, I'm. I wonder..Did you bore his Tango in Sheffield 2012? The crowd and the European commentators went crazy for it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7c-9GqE3Q the best exhibition in 2010!
  30. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,981
    That was an unfortunate decision :p
  31. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    90
    lala, I am sure they are all bored at his EC2012 performance. Only uber fans and layman in the crowd can see the beauty of that program.

    Maybe the administrator can move this post to the Trash can and change to another title? I mean we can keep a post here to discuss the rest of Kurt's article and discuss about Plushenko in the Trash Can? (actually I am quite enjoy reading these discussions since they are funny, but now it is quite OT so...)
  32. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    As for me - it didn't bore me, although there were programs that I liked better.

    For me, it's not the best exhibition in 2010. It's good, but includes many of Plushenko's usual mooves. Besides, it's always easier to excite crowds with humorous and funny programs (as it is with something dynamic, dancy and sexy with intentional sexy moves - Evgeni tends to use them too :)). When the public gives a standing ovation for a serious and complex program - that's another thing entirely. Of course, Plushenko has had those moments too.
  33. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,967
    Yaya, I don't care if the moderator will delete this post, but i would like to show some opinions. They aren't laymen:

    YOU ARE WRONG!

    Sonia Bianchetti Garbato about EC http://www.soniabianchetti.com/about_sonia.html

    Plushenko, who placed second in the short program, gave a strong performance to "Tango de Roxanne", which included a quadruple toe-loop and seven triples, including two triple Axels. Evgeny's free program was the only flawless program of the event. The fact he was able to execute a quad was a kind of miracle because of the serious problems he is having with his knee. He will have to undergo surgery again in the next weeks.
    In spite of this, the Czar was able to give an explosive performance, at great speed and full of passion. Evgeny was the only skater who really filled the ice, who was able to communicate all the time with the spectators in the arena, driving them crazy. Once again he proved to be a great champion. Welcome back, Evgeny! But a question comes to my mind: why do we have to rely on the comeback of an old champion to create such an atmosphere in the arena? Why are the new talented skaters not able to achieve this? Is there something wrong in the development of the sport?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------http://exedrasports.gr/news/article/?aid=130663

    The charmer of ice returned to his throne, not that he was ever gone for that matter. Evgeni Plushenko, the charismatic Russian with graceful aetherial movement succeeded once again to charm audiences and judges and climbed to the highest top of the podium at the European Figure Skating Championships held in Sheffield, England. He knew that all media lights would be turned on him due to his absence from major events last year. Everybody waited in the ... corner to record any slip. Eventually, he did not made them the favor.

    Despite a knee injury, the Russian with blond hair - his trademark - slided on the ice with that characteristic ease of his which gives the illusion of ... convenience. For Plushenko figure skating is not just a sport, but his whole life...
    The King of all comebacks
    I said previously but I'll say it again. Holy Crap. Oh my goodness. The men's free programme was something else. In the big daddy of all shocking comebacks Evgeni Plushenko skated out of his skin and scored his best mark ever to win the European title for the seventh time. Seriously there aren't enough italics in the world for me to properly convey my surprise and awe at this situation. The man is unbelievable. His free skate to an amazing arrangement of 'el tango de Roxanne' was just fabulous, full of power, drama and attack and despite not having skated in a while he still looked close to swaggering, imperious best.
    Όταν βγήκε στην παγοπίστα είδαμε ένα άλλο πατινάζ. Το πατινάζ του Plushenko είναι μακράν το καλύτερο. Θα έλεγα ότι είναι εκτός ανταγωνισμού. Λες και όλοι οι υπόλοιποι είναι γήινοι κι ο Plushenko από άλλο γαλαξία. Η συνολική βαθμολογία (261.23 με διαφορά 15 από τον δεύτερο) δείχνει ακριβώς αυτό το χάσμα.


    When he got on the ice we saw another figure skating. Plushenko's skating is the absolute best by far.I would say he is beyond any competition. It is like all the rest (skaters) are from earth and Plushenko is from another galaxy! His total score indicates exactly that chasm!

    ...Morozov is the most spread coach in figure skating. He coaches and choreographes for all 4 cathegories. Morozov sums up the Europeans for the Team Russia 2014.

    TR: What was the main event of the Europeans?
    NM: Pluschenko's gold. I'm overwhelmed with his skating! In the Lp he showed the level that no one could this season, not even the Canadian Patrick Chan. Many say Pluschenko's components were too high, but I would give him even higher marks! He has the charisma that a true champion must have....

    “I am shocked form Plushenko’s skating”
    The expert of “Gazeta Ru” Nikolay Morozov about the results in the EC- 2012

    The expert of “Gazeta Ru” Nikolay Morozov, observing the results of the European championships of figure skating, stated, that he was shocked form Evgeni Plushenko’s performance in Sheffield. The famous coach and producer valued highly the artistry of the 7 times European champion.

    The main event of the competition in Sheffield became the return of Evgeni Plushenko. I was simply shocked from his performance. How much masculine power he has!
    In the free program Evgeni showed such a level, which in this season cannot show even Patrik Chan.

    And the marks for the components are not heightened. I would have put even higher ones! The skating, which Plushenko shows, is a real man’s skating. He has a charisma. That is why his skating is a felt like a skating, not just walking on the ice.

    Tarasova
    “The return of Plushenko – this is a remarkable event in the life of the world sport. I cried all the night from exaltation after his performance, because he went out winning over himself, his fear and pain, and showed all the world how a great sportsman of nowadays should behave and live. Plushenko leads not only our figure skating, but the world figure skating. I admire this impulse in him and bow down before Mishin’s talent. All this calls forth exaltation and an enormous gratitude.” – said Tarasova in a phone conversation.

    The coach thinks, that the performance of Plushenko was prepared “very professionally and knowledgeably”. “In the beginning of the free program the most important element was done – the quad, and all the rest were as if strung after it. Zhenya skated with an enormous joy and presented with this joy all the planet.”

    “I can imagine what a hard work it had been – to prepare Plushenko, to help him recover from the injury. I am very grateful to Alexey Mishin and to all the team – the choreographer, the coach for the general physical training, I am grateful, of course, to Zhenya too. I am grateful to his wife Jana, that she keeps this fire burning.


    Nicky Slater, Eurosport commentator
    ......
    Skating highlights? Plushenko, of course. Evgeni was not ‘more of the same’ for me, which is what I expected. There was less frenetic movement, more strength in his presence, sophistication in the choreography and maturity, plus the impressive technical. Great to see him back stronger than ever.
    ……

    Sinead Kerr:
    ……
    The main event this year – if the crowd was anything to go by – was the Men’s. The arena was packed and the audience was excited, mainly, I think, because of the return of Olympic gold medallist and twice silver medallist, Evgeni Plushenko, who – as ever – didn’t disappoint.
    We have done many shows with Evgeni and there is no doubt that he is a star in the skating world. He has a presence which is hard to define and almost impossible to imitate – as his training partner, runner up Artur Gachinski, can attest to.
    Artur skated cleanly and landed more quads than Evgeni, tried his best to skated like him and in some ways is more able in the transition steps. Yet, somehow, when he finished, he was met with good applause rather than the impromptu standing ovation and wild enthusiasm following Plushenko. Many people questioned Evgeni’s comeback, but I think he proved here in Sheffield that he is still one of the best competitors ever in the sport and certainly a big draw. He is also a charmer, praising the organization and atmosphere of the event in his interview following the competition.
    ……

    :) :) By!
  34. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Thanks for posting the Tsiskaridze in Slow Motion vid. Spectacular! :encore: As far as balletic power and grace, Plush is no comparison to Tsiskaridze (altho' I concede Plush has equal power and flair in performance).

    Re David Avdish, since I'm not familiar with him at all, I don't know how you can determine that I "don't like him." :duh: Thanks for the introduction, btw.

    Re what you or someone else said before about Plush being more handsome than Alexander Godunov, yes I agree there's some truth to that. However, Godunov had a more rugged, sensual charisma and sexual appeal, at least for me. :swoon:

    Okay, so Plush is balletic God of ice for Russians. So be it. IMHO, Plush was clearly more balletic at a younger age on the ice, but any focus on the finer details of balletic grace is not apparent to me in his later skating career. As he matured, Plush's focus seems to have been more on training to perfect and maintain consistency on his jumps, no matter that he also took some ballet training and tried to incorporate dance elements/ themes in his skating. Pre-2010, Plush seemed more focused on footwork and did not engage his upper body as much. His use of his arms is apparent but seemingly more like an afterthought. It must be hard (even for a great ballet choreographer) to tell a skating God what they should be doing in order to finish off moves with more stretch and balletic grace.

    Also, I do not like the hunching forward tendency when landing jumps that many males (including Plush) exhibited during a certain period. Much of that changed when Johnny Weir displayed his effortless jumping style and smooth upright landing carriage circa 2003 - 2008. Johnny had developed such great posture largely due to his years as a young equestrian athlete.
  35. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Okay, lala, re your #73 post:

    OH BOY, I know Kurt Browning is not coming back to compete eligibly, but at this point in this thread, we need some Kurt quotes and Kurt vids going, don'tcha think? :p Besides, we must give Kurt some credit that his wife is a ballet dancer. ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyUCqUbkvpA Feelin' Good

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMMEaiMcsQU&feature=related I'm Yours

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI_NVbaNYvU&feature=related (with quotes by S/P no less!)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da8HEwnKBu8&feature=related -- He's so clever, so cool, so funny!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWOQ694QcIY&feature=related
    Lightning Crashes, indeed!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTstfCux2hc&feature=related (with his wife, Sonia) :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL537okIJaE&feature=relmfu Kurt with his family at the dinner table

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAngxNlAQAY&feature=related Kurt's Serenade to Sonia -- with Nat King Cole


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RtL68KBBhY&feature=related Brick House, nuff said ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Izl1CA1uA&feature=related Now that's flamenco on ice!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8F5l4_R_38 (Kurt with hair!) Singin' in the Rain -- Gene Kelly on Ice

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXhe8DLDU58&feature=relmfu Kurt rockin' his facial expressions w/ first performance of Brick House :lol:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq8xtbo2Wiw&feature=related Kurt Steppin' Out

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgYHsPAEZ2A Summertime, choreographed by Zhulin

    Kurt is one of the best figure skaters to never win an Olympic medal. Like at Academy Awards, there should be an honorary award/ gold medal given to skaters like Kurt for their extraordinary accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Thank you, Kurt!
  36. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    90
    Thanks lala, there are some articles I missed from EC. I am not saying that expert won't find Plushenko good, they are (at least some of them are). I was just being sarcasm.

    Re aftershocks, since we are not ending the discussion then I would just point out that Dai is an elegant skater but his style is not ballet style IMO. Plushenko on the other hand is classic Russian ballet style skater. IMO Dai's style is more closer to the contemporary dancing.

    And thanks for all Kurt's links, he is a great entertainer and his 3A is gorgeous. The sing in the rain (with hair version) is really nice. He has really amazing steps. BTW, I think Plushenko once said that he likes Browning's steps (or the way to control the blade, I forgot his exact words).

    But I would say that I like Plushenko's flamingo better. I hope someday he can do a full flamingo program instead of just half of it.

    Way OT: The tap dancing from Kurt and the ballet quality in Plushenko lead me to think about the movie "white night", one of my favorite movies.
  37. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    ^^ I agree that Dai has a contemporary style of movement, but great jazz and modern dance (and especially in this era, all styles of dance) benefit by ballet training. Professional dancers today must have ballet training if they hope to be successful. There is a video on youtube with Dai speaking to a famous Japanese ballet dancer to gain advice; also Dai took dance (ballet?) lessons to prepare for his Rockin' Swan program, under Morosov.

    Kurt is the epitome of "entertainer"!

    Ah, I can definitely see Plush as a Flamingo http://anwo.com/store/flamingo_toy.html
    -- (you mean flamenco, eh?)

    I love your reference to White Nights! There should definitely be a remake staring Evgeni Plushenko and Kurt Browning!
  38. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    90
    Damn typo. Yes of course I am referring to flamenco. But I do not mind Plush portraying flamingo:D He performed crazy bird before, right? I do miss the days when he presented funny numbers in Gala. He can be a great entertainer if he wants, just saying.

    As for ballet training, I am not saying that Dai or other skaters do not have ballet training. Just to say that Plush's style is different from them, he is more classic ballet style while contemporary dancing is a bit softer in moves (IMO).
  39. yaya124

    yaya124 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    90
    I missed this post, so have to argue a bit with you. I agree that Plush's program after Nijinsky are not very ballet like except "moonlight". But the "Swan" is back to his classic ballet style in a bit softer version. It is safe to say that in your opinion he is lacking ballet training, which other people (e.g. me) is not necessarily agree with you. I think we just need to agree on disagree on this topic.


    Again this is your opinion on jumps and your preference. For me, I like Plush's jumps because his jumps are powerful yet elegant. Weir's jumps are beautiful, which fit his smoothing style. While Plush's jumps fit his powerful skating. These are different styles, not that one is better than the other. So let us agree on disagree again;)
  40. Nan

    Nan Just me

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Messages:
    6,767
    no