Kostner returning to Oberstdorf

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Tarasirius, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. Tarasirius

    Tarasirius New Member

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  2. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Worlds 2010 was her best event in quite a while. Hopefully her momentum continues!
  3. MOIJTO

    MOIJTO Banned Member

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    She needs to retire.
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  4. Lis

    Lis Member

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    She is only 22 so NO she does not need to retire.Carolina skating is one of the fastest in the female field and such a joy to watch. I am totally glad she stays.Actually I think the female skaters are at their best when they are at least!!!! 25 years old.
  5. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    4 more years!!! 4 more years!!!

    There's nooooooooooooone like Kostner. Can't wait to see what she has to offer next season :cheer2:
  6. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    She can do really well sometimes. Like when she won the European Championship and her respectable performance at worlds.
  7. igniculus

    igniculus Well-Known Member

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    There were times when I hated her and her overscored skating, but I guess her struggles in the past 2 seasons lessened my hard feelings for her and I was really sorry for her. I hope she gets in form again.
  8. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    No. What she needs to do is find the right coach for her. Frank's an amazing coach and I'm sorry things didn't go as well as Carolina wanted. I hope this return to Michael will go very well. Carolina's a fantastic skater, she just needs to become more consistent, because she's got everything to become a champion.

    Força, Carolina!

    :cheer2:
  9. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I agree with MOIJTO. At this point it's very hard to imagine a miraculous gain of control over her nerves.
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  10. london_calling

    london_calling New Member

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    I wish her well but I don't think she'll be a threat for the world podium. I have never seen a skater telegraph their jumps quite like her.

    Not to split hairs or anything but she is 23 now and will be 24 by the next World Championships.
  11. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I saw some improvement this past season and it's probably due to FC and Carla Fassi. I know that her olympic performance contradicts that statement but she was more pleasing for me to watch.

    IMO, going back to Huth isn't a good move. He never seemed able to get her head straight. I just don't see her rising (again) in the next quadrennial '11 - '14
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    ;) Carolina was coached last season by Christa Fassi (who was married to the late Carlo Fassi).
  13. ltnskater

    ltnskater Active Member

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    :lol: I take it you haven't seen Elena Liashenko jumping before :lol:
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  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    She's been in Obertsdorf for a while now.

    The US plan backfired completely. Shame.

    The retirement suggestions are ridiculous though.

    She has enormous potential and even when skating not to her full potential, she is capable of medaling, at least at Euros.
  15. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    My dream is that Joannie and/or Caro will win a world championship in this quad! This sport needs more women on top! Little girls are so :shuffle::wall:.

    ITA! I'd rather watch a messy program skated by the charming Kostner than a clean program skated by boring Lysacek or Plushenko.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  16. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if she's adding any coaches to her team with this second go round with Huth. Jump coach maybe? If not, this isn't going to end well.
  17. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Oh poo. Yuna isn't a little girl either.
  18. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    No, but she already has a world title as does Mao and Miki. Who wants to see the same person win everything? :shuffle:
  19. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    No, what she needs is to do full run-throughs. If she's going to be lazy about training then no amount of talent in the world will get her to the top. She could have gone far with Frank but her refusal to do run-throughs and commit herslef 100% to training harder than she had in the past screwed her over, and now she's going back to her previous coach where she can continue to rest on her talent- which is simply not enough.

    If what she has done up until now hasn't given her the results she was seeking, she should realize that she should make a change. Changing coaches without changing her training habits won't do squat.
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    How do you know she was refusing to do full-runthroughs?

    From what I have heard, Kostner is a hard worker and her and Caroll were simply not a personality match. Sometimes people just rub each other the wrong way and don't get on despite the best intentions on both sides.

    I wish she could find a good coach she'd get on with. Black Mark of Huth. :shuffle:
  21. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    Here's a translation of the article.

    Three time European Champion Carolina Kostner is fed up with the big world. After 15 months she ends her guest appearance in LA and returns to longtime coach Michael Huth. “The change from a small town to the metropolitan of LA has been too enormous. She recognized that. Now we’ll have to see how we’ll build her back up.” Huth said.

    This Friday will be Kostner’s first public appearance. She’ll perform in the show “Greatest Hits on Ice”. The event is the highlight of a training camp (Ice Dome) with more than 130 skaters from 20 different nations. The youngest are just 7 years old – and charmed by Carolina Kostner. Exactly like the provisional CEO of the Oberstdorf skating club, Harald Löffler. “The return of Carolina Kostner is certainly enriching for the Oberstdorf skating scene.” Lately, the career of the St. Ulrich native, who first came to the Oberstdorf sport school at the age of 13, hasn’t run smoothly.

    Leaving to train with Christa Fassi and Frank Caroll hasn’t brought her any closer to her ultimate goal. On contrary: she placed sixth at the World Championships and fell down to 16th place at the Olympic Games. Kostner was devastated – and soon contacted her former coach Huth. “The door has never been closed. I think we can offer her more than day in, day out, doing run-throughs of her programs,” the married father said and who is practically like family to Kostner. If the cousin of retired skier Isolde Kostner will be able to reach her dream, needs to be seen.

    Right now, Huth has to serve primarily as a psychologist. “Caro lost a lot of her natural character in the US. She has to get comfortable first before she’ll have that back,” he said. Next to the ice, his protégé is missing her sovereignty as well. She didn’t want to answer any questions prior to the skating show tonight. The reasoning: Too much stress…
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  22. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    It's just wrong to call Carolina lazy. The girl works her butt off. As Ziggy said, Carolina and Frank just weren't a match.
  23. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the translation, ballettmaus!

    :cheer2:
  24. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    People are attributing all sorts of problems to her (laziness, headcase, whatever). But I wonder if she really can get very consistent considering how tall she is.

    Are there actually tall and consistent jumpers out there or has there been any?
  25. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    The height might be an issue but I think I remember some posters mentioning that her technique was in some ways less than stellar and Huth has been either unable or unwilling to correct that.

    ETA: Ahhh I think I remember now.

    Jacek Tascher who is a coach and Polish Eurosport commentator is often making comments about Kostner rushing her jumps (I don't remember the details of what he said though).

    I guess that can be a psychological issue as much as a technical one.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  26. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the translation, balletmaus -- if she's too stressed to answer questions prior to a pre-season skating show, she's pretty dicey. She had the unfortunate experience of doing very well (results-wise) early along despite rarely being able to skate anything close to clean, and I think there was a lot of backlash that must have been personally painful when she did so badly at Worlds a year ago and then the debacle at the Olympics.
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see Kostner work with an actual sport psychologist and not just Papa Huth. :p
  28. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    But his foolproof methodology has taken her so far! Truly an inspirational training environment he's built in Dortmund.

    :wall:
  29. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    She should become a speed skater.
  30. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Exactly.
  31. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    An elite level figure skater who flat out refuses to do full run throughs IS lazy. Not just lazy, but ineffective at practicing in a way that would yield better results. Let's say you don't think I can call Carolina lazy because she practices 100 jumps a day...well, that just means she likes jumping, but doesn't like doing run-throughs. Someone who is lazy isn't necessarily someone who puts forth no effort, but rather someone who doesn't put forth any effort beyond what they "feel like" doing.

    I'm not saying she would definitely place better if she did do full run throughs, but I am saying that if she refuses to do full run throughs then she is jeopardizing the chance of placing better that she could have.

    There's honestly no reason other than nursing an injury or illness that would warrant an elite skater (and even non-elite skaters, to be perfectly honest) *not* to do full run throughs of programs.
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  32. tangerine_dream

    tangerine_dream New Member

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    The mouths of people who were working with her at the time. I'm not going to name a specific one, but I'm more confident about this source than I was about my Sasha doing pairs rumor, and even that seems to be true:dog:

    I keep forgetting this forum doesn't consolidate 2 replies into one post unless I do it manually. Apologies for double posting again.
  33. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Her problem has been 3-fold:

    1. the speed she maintains, while impressive, makes it difficult for her to control her jumps and this worsened when she got older and taller/ fuller

    2. she doesn't have the stamina, consistency and muscle memory like other skaters who do full run-throughs

    3. she is a headcase except at the occasional Euros where she has very little competition. The fact that she also telegraphs allows plenty of negative thoughts to creep in while she glides forward/ backward on two feet.

    Carroll got her to pace herself and slow down a little which was good, but her confidence must have been seriously shot from the previous season for them to work right away. If Kostner had been more patient/ obedient with Carroll (and vice versa) she probably would have had a better second half to her Olympic season.

    I don't recall the last great triple I saw from her.
  34. IneZR

    IneZR New Member

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    I am really glad that Caro is staying. Her skating is just gorgeous, she has the smoothest edges and the deepest knees out there - the way she gains speed from just couple of cross-overs is just :respec:. I could watch her do simple cross-overs all day long and still be :swoon:

    But back to the topic: her jumping technique is just fine, but she often rushes into her jump entrances and, IMHO, it's all due to the nerves. What she really needs right now is a good sports psychologist. I don't mind her staying with Huth as long as she feels comfortable training in Oberstdorf. After all, it's Huth who coached Carolina to World Silver and Bronze and two European titles: he can't be THAT bad, huh? :shuffle:
  35. IceJunkie

    IceJunkie Well-Known Member

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    At the Olympics on NBC, didn't Bezic say that Carolina wouldn't do full run throughs?
  36. alhrayth

    alhrayth New Member

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    she did work with one in the past, I remember having the very unpleasant experience of meeting him during Worlds in Torino. If it was that guy, I would very much prefer she didn't get back to him, he was just hyperexcited, rude, arrogant and annoying (and I was not the only one thinking this!), and I can't see what good could he do to anyone, actually, not only to Carolina's already complex situation.:duh:
  37. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Whatever the case may be, it sounds like Caro doesn't have a good track record in choosing her support team --- or having them chosen for her.
  38. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    I saw Carolina Kostner just the day before yesterday in Oberstdorf. She said she hasn't made a final decision yet regarding her coaching situation and training location. She attended the Ice Dome summer camp in Oberstdorf and now will attend Alexei Urmanov's summer camp in Aosta.
  39. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    She seems to be such a nice person.
    The problem with Frank Carol is that she tried to relearn her jumping technique. But in an Olympic season, it's very difficult to fix your technique in 5 months !
    I think she needed time with Frank and Christa. But I hope she will find something new with her former coach.
    Good luck !
  40. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it would be best if she sat out a season in order to get her coaching issue settled. She seems like someone who needs some steady foundation and I'm afraid if she's not entirely settled for the season her results will suffer.

    What Huth said in the article sounded sort of degrading. Frank Caroll cannot be such a bad coach, he produced a 4 time World Whampion (I think) and an Olympic Gold medalist. Recently. I don't know about his past.
    I don't want to judge Carolina but there's always two to make a partnership work, so I guess they both were on different pages. As someone who has been there though, I can say that not always do you understand immediately that what the coach is saying is best for you. For some people it's hard to accept different training methods after they have been training for so long under one coach and method - even if that stalled your development at some point. Maybe that happened to Carolina.
    I hope she can sort through that problem though because she's such a sweet girl and I would love if she could skate to her full potential at a World and/or European Championship because she's great if she skates clean.