Kimmie Meissner's triple-triples video

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by bartek, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    Hehe, now, that's a difficult question. Even though she had a terrible flutz I'd say she was "technically competent". I made video with her combos as well and learnt that MAJORITY of her super difficult 3Lo+3Lo combos were fully rotated what's in my opinion really amazing, also taking into consideration her poor height. But in case of Kimmie, she really had serious technical problems, most of these combos underrotated and they weren't as difficult as Tara's ones. Apart from that she had her toe-axel and lip. She had great technique on her axel and salchow though. I'm going to post videos with her triple axels attempts soon by the way :).
     
  2. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    :encore:
     
  3. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I think Cohen was in a great position to win in both 2004 and 2006 at worlds, particularly 2006. I thought there was no way she could lose in 2006, but she did. That itself was a shock to me. I don't know which win was more shocking- Hughes in 2002 or Kimmie's in 2006. I would have to go with Hughes as more shocking, as the field included Kwan and Slutskaya. Kimmie's competition was Cohen and Suguri.

    Talking of 2004, Arakawa had not done that well that season, but a switch to Tarasova toward the end of the season seemed to boost her confidence. Still, I never thought she would win, before the competition began. I thought it would be Kwan or Cohen. Slutskaya totally dominated 2005 though, so her win was not a shock.
     
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  4. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I figured Cohen would find a way to mess up '06 (check archives)...given that she has lost to Suguri in the past, I'd figure she'd lose to her again...but I didn't factor KM into the equation at all.

    But she should have followed the other Oly medalists and sat out that Worlds. Clearly she didn't want to be there/didn't want it enough.
     
  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Either she thought it would be easy to win, or she underestimated how fatigued she was from the Olympics.
     
  6. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ^ or maybe all of the above.
     
  7. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Vash01 that 2004 was not "Arakawa's year." Cohen won her QR and led in the SP against other clean performances, and Arakawa had an inconsistent season with Suguri winning the GPF, Kwan winning Nationals with 6.0s and Miki Ando was coming out of the Junior ranks blazing. So, it was far from being anyone's year really. I do think had Cohen not fallen out of her last jump and performed her routine with more security and confidence, she might've pulled off an LP win despite Arakawa having the skate of her career (at the time and arguably her whole career) with two 3/3 considering that Cohen took some ordinals from Arakawa and Kwan nearly beat Arakawa in the LP with 5 triples and one of the simplest routines of her career (yes, I know she got a presentation mark boost with the streaker and it being the last major competition using the 6.0 system).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  8. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Aw, Kimmie. I really appreciated her warmth and good attitude. Her last couple of seasons were incredibly difficult as she went through physical changes and injuries, but her artistry (airplane arms in particular) improved a great deal before she retired. Wishing her all the best for her future!
     
  9. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember Cohen falling in that routine- I do remember a couple of stumbles and perhaps one of the flattest performances I've seen from her. There was no attack, no will. A complete contrast to her SP. Even if it was clean I'm not completely convinced she would have won.

    However, at 2006 worlds- even if Cohen had a repeat of Torino in the FS it might have been enough to eek out the win. Suguri was (also) underwhelming and Meissner was all jumps.
     
  10. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    TVG said "falling out"
     
  11. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    This particular meltdown was blamed on exhaustion after the Olympics... :rolleyes:
     
  12. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Yes but that's assuming that Kimmie and Sarah were equal skaters. I don't think so... Sarah was much stronger. The most surprising thing was that Kwan melted, not that Sarah did well. It is definitely shocking that Kimmie won that worlds, *however* the two competitions with Kimmie and Sarah cannot really be compared (other than the underdog won.) Because 02 had a strong field and 06 had a very weak field.
     
  13. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the most surprising thing about the 2002 Olympics was that Kwan and Slutskaya skated well below their standard. I remember thinking that Sarah Hughes gave a great bronze medal performance right after she had skated in SLC thinking that Kwan and Slutskaya were going to duke it out a la 2001 Worlds.
     
  14. Maximillian

    Maximillian You can't unfry things.

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    Thanks so much for posting those, but I must say that about halfway through all those toe axels started to make me itchy. So much bad technique over and over again makes me uncomfortable.
     
  15. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I'd have to go back to the protocols, but compared to the mistakes in Torino, Sasha Cohen's mistakes in the Calgary Worlds LP were more costly (in points) than at the Olympics.

    I think 3F+COMBO might have not even existed back then if you didn't even attempt a combination for the repeated triple attempt (so perhaps invalid element?). There was also an omission of the 3 salchow at the back end of the 3-3 sequence. Considering there were two other errors in the program, I'm thinking that Sasha could have gotten away with 1-2 errors and still won Worlds that year....but she didn't.
     
  16. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Active Member

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    I pointed out her a terrible 'Lip-jump' actually.
    Yes, she tried to do two kinds of triple-triple combination in competition.
    But, her 3Lutz-3toe & 3F-3toe is totally the same.
    sigh...
     
  17. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I actually felt bad for her in the 07/08 season. She spent the summer practicing a 3f/3r combo but that season was when the ISU debuted the "e" mark for edge problems. Until that point, the ISU had never made any noise about "lip" jumps and I think it was a shock for her to start getting negative GOE on a jump she had been doing for years. It also rendered her hard work on the new combo totally useless when you factor in the "e" coupled with the ever present risk of a downgrade on a loop combo.

    Great video. Kimmie also landed a 3z/3t at junior worlds on 04 and I'm sure the video is in fsvids. I remember seeing three videos of Kimmie practicing 3f/3r. One was a local news special where the reporter called it "the hardest jump in the WORLD!" :lol They also showed a clip of her practicing it at a pro event (or maybe SOI) during a fluff piece. You can also see a faulty attempt on the NBC feed in the warm-up before her LP at Nationals. These were all in the 07/08 season.
     
  18. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    All of this talk about jumps reminded me of something I did about two years ago...

    It was a general assumption that Sasha Cohen never got through a major competition without at least one mistake. I decided to find some solid facts on that once and for all. I compiled a list of all of Sasha's jumps at major competitions (ie. nationals, worlds, olympics) and started crunching some numbers. I did percentages on her best jump, worst jumps, how often she made mistakes and where the first one usually occurred. I was right about some stuff but was surprised with some of the stuff I found.

    It was a long post so I won't re-post the whole thing, but you can check it out here: http://mkforum.net/forum/showthread.php?22756-Sasha-Cohen-s-Jump-Stats-Just-the-Facts...&highlight=

    It took me several days of watching videos, organizing data and then crunching it all down...but I gotta admit, it was a lot of fun.:D I said I'd do other skaters statistics at some point once I find the time.
     
  19. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Nice work!! Very interesting, even though it's very OT :lol:
     
  20. jessiesk8r

    jessiesk8r New Member

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    That is a really interesting analysis! Do you have a link to MK stats that were promised at the end of the Sasha post? That could be even more interesting! :D
     
  21. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I know! :lol: But I figured since we were talking about Kimmie's 2006 win and what a shock it was/wasn't against Sasha, I figured it was worth mentioning...I'm a bit random like that at times.

    Burritos are very good...see what I mean? :p

    Errm...no I never did those MK stats. :slinkaway It took me three or four days to do all of Sasha's stats and like I said, I'd be dealing with 10+ years of major competitions were I to do the Kween's jump stats. I don't have as much free time as I did back then, but it's something that I'll try to keep in mind for a rainy day.;)
     
  22. Louise

    Louise Banned Member

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    That's amazing, Kwanatic. Thank you for taking the time to do that. Very impressive. It's funny how Cohen never skated a clean competition in a major, but averaged 5 triples throughout. It's no wonder she always made the podium. Her 3toe I think was her worst jump. She had the tendency to overrotate it, and sometimes her falls on it were spectacular.
     
  23. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Would have been interesting to include Sasha's 2010 FS... no doubt the worst ever. But why kick her when she's down? :lol: A couple things I find amazing 1) she never did a clean LP - so her reputation is correct; and 2) she never popped - at least she always tried to rotate, even if there was a fall or one of her many wonky, creative two-foot landings.

    Which reminds me of a story... I went to see my doctor and told her I was a skater. She said "Ah, you know who I like? That Sasha girl. But her problem is she's too flexible, like Gumby. Her legs just split instead of holding up her landings." :lol:
     
  24. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    Well, but this included only Nats, Worlds and Olys. Sasha had three clean FS's in her life: Worlds 2003 and 2004 QR's and Marshall's Challenge 2004. All were spectacular. Sasha really could be totally amazing and probably the best skater if she only could land all her jumps. With her line, posture, perfect positions, spirals, spins, wonderful artistry and grace... Scott Hamilton once said during Olympic Ice that Sasha is one of the most beautiful skaters to ever grace the ice. In case of popping, I like it more when a skater try to do all rotations like Sasha than pop a jump. The only time I remember Sasha popping a jump was Campbell's 2004 when she popped triple loop into a single.

    Here's my video with her attempts at triple-triples and quad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiHedeIKkyw

    I'll upload new version because I found two new 3Lz+3T's: Worlds 2002 and Trophee Lalique 2002.
     
  25. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, for some reason I always found Cohen to be overrated.

    She had some fire and spark when she was younger but that disappeared and she always seemed tentative and timid. Sort of like how Nagasu is now.
     
  26. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    I can't find videos of the 2003-2004 QRs, but not surprising that she was clean there and Marshalls because none of those are one of "the big ones." QR is important but it's not SP or LP. Her Marshalls was amazing. The really nutty thing about that competition is that she came in third (something that should probably be discussed in the "worst judged competitions" thread). That program in 2010 would have given Yuna a run for her money.
     
  27. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    One thing about Sasha though is when she made a mistake in the LP she kept fighting and landing her jumps and that's why she was on so many podiums. Mirai needs to watch some clips of Sasha and see that you don 't quit when you make a mistake.
     
  28. krenseby

    krenseby New Member

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    Yes, but I am not sure if it's a good comparison. For one thing, while you see Nagasu as tentative and timid, a lot of people rave about her skating and think she is simply amazing.
     
  29. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Well, Nagasu is that way when she skates not to lose. She CAN be a great skater as we saw at 2010 Nats and Olys. Too bad she has not risen to that level of competitiveness since...
     
  30. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    Sasha actually had a spectacular win with this program at Marshall's 2004. She got a couple of 6's for presentation and beat world champion Shizuka (it was one month after 2004 Worlds) even though she ladned a triple-triple. Michelle made many mistakes in her routine to Tosca and finished third. It was really an interesting competition. Miki Ando was there as well and landed two triple-triples and had a brave attempt at her quad salchow (she had clean landing but three quarters of a cheat on it).