Kim Yu-Na - the greatest of all time if she wins 2014 Olympics & Worlds?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, May 1, 2013.

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Kim Yu-Na - the greatest of all time if she wins 2014 Olympics & Worlds?

Poll closed Jun 1, 2013.
  1. Yes

    50 vote(s)
    52.6%
  2. No

    43 vote(s)
    45.3%
  3. Don't Know

    2 vote(s)
    2.1%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    If Kim Yu-Na goes on to become a double Olympic champion and a 3 times world champion by the end of the 2013/14 season, will that make her arguably the greatest female singles figure skater of all time? My view is that it would. She will have proved that she has just as much technical ability as any female skater that has ever lived (except perhaps for Midori Ito). Her artistry is up there with most of the top artistic skaters in history. She would also have demonstrated that she has the nerve and competitive spirit to win the most important events (i.e. the Olympics, Worlds). Michelle Kwan, of course, never managed to win an Olympic title. Furthermore, she will almost have matched Katrina Witt in terms of the number of Olympic and World titles she will have won - Katarina won 4 World titles along with her two Olympic titles. Neither Kim nor Katarina can match the number of titles won by Sonja Henie, but Henie was competing in a completely different era in which the sport was totally different to what it is today. Hence, what Kim will have demonstrated is that she has it all - that she is the complete package: technical and artistic ability of the highest quality, the nerve to win the big events, and a medal haul to match that of all except Witt and Henie.
  2. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    God, here we go yet again...this same damn poll has been posted no less than three times in the last two weeks.

    I know it's the off-season but isn't there anything else we can speculate about?

    And BTW, Yu-Na isn't going to worlds...she said Sochi will be her last competition.
  3. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    She is a wonderful skater....but best ever? Nope. I wouldn't even know how to define "best". Michelle is the best because she skated so long and so consistently won. Tara was the best because she won everything and was the youngest. Sasha was best because of her amazing musicality and artistry. Irina was the best for her athletic ability. See what I mean? Katerina Witt she was the best for her playfulness, sexiness and two OGM. Alyssa is the best at spinning.........and for her amazing re-make.

    And, I can't imagine Yu-Na going to Worlds after Olys. But, who knows.
  4. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    The poll your thinking of was done last December, with most of voting taking place at the same time. Many people will have re-evaluated their view in light of Kim's impressive win at Worlds.

    I think Kim will go for a hat-trick of World titles
  5. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    She told this worlds were important for her because this is the last time she compete at worlds. So no way she will be there. Besides, she didn't want to be at worlds after last Olympics and did awful at that competition. And she has competed in such a short period.
    No skater will never be the best skater of all time. Different times has different standards, different focus on what may be important. An besides, it is a judged sport, it is always a matter of taste. Many people appreciate one skater and others, other skaters. You have to respect all the skaters, but you may like different ones.
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont think it will make a difference either way. Most who feel she would be best ever winning in Sochi already think she is now. Most who dont think she would be even winning in Sochi wont change their mind either.
  7. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    I'm afraid of such threads... :argue:
    Her fans usually do not make thread like this...
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  8. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ I don't think what happened in Sochi has anything to do with how one would view "Greatest Skater Ever".
    It is a piece of the puzzle, sure, but I think it is more dependent on what the criteria are. Many would say Michelle is one of the greatest ever.......and she has no OGM.
  9. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    In my opinion, this year's World Championships cemented her status as one of the greatest of all time. I don't think there's any figure skater who is arguably THE GREATEST of all time.
    l'etoile and (deleted member) like this.
  10. torren

    torren New Member

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    I think each person have difference opinion who is the best of the greatest of all time. I can not understand why this kind of polls are created many times... Maybe she will be the best of the greatest in korean's heart... :p not for me.
  11. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    Exactly. Everyone on these boards have already made up their mind on this question whether she wins in Sochi or not. :lol: We figure skating enthusiasts have favorites and biases that are set in stone.

    However, I do think the world at large--the one outside of these specialty figure skating forums--will readily regard her as the greatest figure skater if she defends her title in Sochi.
  12. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    If we all vote YES will people quit making this poll?
    AxelAnnie and (deleted member) like this.
  13. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    No, for then there would be a consensus to challenge, simply because it exists.
  14. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    If Yuna is not the greatest of all time then who is ??
  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Sonia Henie? Katarina Witt won two OGMs, four World championships, and six European championships so if we're just going by hardware, she'd be a strong contender. Beatrix Schuba was considered the best skater in terms of school figures. Janet Lynn is considered the best free skater of her period. Madge Syers competed and won the silver medal at Worlds when it was an all-mens event. Michelle Kwan...

    The list goes on.
  16. torren

    torren New Member

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    I have seen a similar post in another forum. In that post "If yagudin is not the best of all time then who is??" :lol:
    That post was refuted by the other posters in fast time and they refferring to other skaters dick button, john curry, etc..

    Each person have difference opinion who is the greatest of all time :rolleyes:
  17. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I can understand some people saying that sonja henie is the greatest, as she did win 3 olympics. Katarina Witt won her second olympic title with 2 triple salchows and 2 triple toes in an era where the top skater should have landed 3lz and 3lo in the free skate, Katarina then returned and placed 8th at europeans and 7th at olympics. Beatrix also considered one of the best at compulsory figures, was not the best free skater of her time. Same with janet lynn, considered the best at free skate, but not in figures. Madge syers competed way too long ago to know what she was actually capable of. Michelle kwan placed 2nd and 3rd at her olympic attempts.

    I know the eras are different however Yuna is

    The only female skater to win olympics, world championships, four continents championships and grand prix final.
    She is the current world record holder and has broken the world record 11 times
    First female skater to surpass 200 points
    Has not finished off the podium in her entire career

    Not only is she the strongest technical female skater ever, but she is also known for her mature artistry.

    If she is not the greatest female skater of all time then i don't know who is.
  18. torren

    torren New Member

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    But she's the only two-time world champion. Katarina witt and Sonja Henie have much better career, Michelle Had a longer career than her.
    Kim also has weaknesses. 3F wrong edge, weak on artistry, etc.
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  19. SkatingAnalyst

    SkatingAnalyst New Member

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    The members of this forum have their own favorites.
    It is really meaningless to vote on this forum.

    but

    If the poll is conducted thruout the WORLD, YUNA will come out as the CLEAR WINNER with more than 70 % of total votes.

    Then... Katarina with 10 %... rest will be shared by Mao, Kristi, Midori... little girl who was Michelle's competitor(not well-known in the world...forgot her name.)
  20. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    LOL
    Yes, her Tango de Roxane SP, her James Bond SP, her 2010 LP, her 2011 LP were weak on artistry :rolleyes:
  21. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Not weak in artistry, but also not particularly impressive.
  22. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Technical specialist calling her flip edge change is pure nonsense. and for you to say she has weak artistry is laughable and completely crazy. :wall:
    l'etoile and (deleted member) like this.
  23. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

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    Actually even the commentators noticed the wrong edge at Worlds, so i wouldn't call it nonsense nor coincidence that it get called!
  24. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Called in the short but not the free??? her flip technique changes in 1 day does it.

    I think her flip has only been called a lutz twice in her entire career
  25. shoocreme

    shoocreme New Member

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    delusional.

    how would your theoretical "world poll" represent everyone?
    it reminds me of how yuna fans freaked out when she won that stupid tiny facebook poll. I mean, are yuna fans this dense? I love her skating and think she is one of the all-time greats, possibly the greatest of all time (certainly of the past 20 years), but she also happens to be at the peak of her popularity in 2013, when the world practically lives online on twitter and facebook (and she is a superstar in her own country). If you go on facebook, katarina witt (who was huge in the 80's) has only around 20,000 fans (which is pathetic for a "celebrity" and might as well be zero), compared to Yuna's 1 million. there are minor youtube cooking channels with more than 10x the amount of fans that katarina has. but does anyone think facebook actually represents Katarina's peak of fame or notoriety? she is IRRELEVANT now. but during her heyday she was huge, probably one of the biggest global skating stars ever. most casual fans of a certain skater don't last the way fans of musicians, actors do (it's such a seasonal, specialty sport, for one)
    justin bieber also has TWICE the # of facebook fans that the beatles does. does anyone actually believe that makes him bigger than the beatles or that he'll even be remembered 10 years from now, much less 30, 40 years later like the beatles? things like facebook, current online presence and popularity are often more of a measure of recent relevance than anything else.

    no one denies yuna's popularity (especially her popularity within her own country), but yuna ubers seem deluded into thinking she's actually some kind of superstar outside of Korea, which is first of all CRAP, and second of all most casual fans of older skaters like katarina, peggy, dorothy, have moved on.

    most of the world outside of korea and skating fans don't even know who yuna is! but keep on dreamin..
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  26. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    Others benefit from their more recent status too, not just Kim. Are you seriously saying Michelle Kwan, Alexei Yagudin, and Evgeny Plushenko arent grossly inflated and overrated in these polls since they came in at the time skating exposure was exploding (in fact more than today) and they are more recent stars people saw as well. Based on achievements Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would be 3rd all time about, and Kwan is about 6th and 7th, and Yagudin and Plushenko are probably down the middle top 10 too, yet they are at the top of polls only since they are the most recent.
  27. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    True, the edge calls on Kim's flip is ridiculous. Kim is probably the best overall toe jumper in skating history, and her triple flip is one of the best in history beyond doubt.
  28. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    Yes, and those other skaters you mentioned had no weakness? :rolleyes: Weak on artistry? You could say some of her programs are not very good, but weak "artistry" per se is not something you can accuse her of.

    Only a two-time world champion? LOL, as if her Vancouver Olympic gold doesn't matter and potentially a SECOND OGM won't count? :lol: Witt and Henie with better careers? Sure they do, when you blatantly ignore historical context.
  29. shoocreme

    shoocreme New Member

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    ..I never said that yuna was the only skater whose reputation is inflated because of her recent/current status. obviously she's not a special case so it would apply to others as well. but my response was to skatinganalyst's claims, so yuna became the focus.

    in fact, it repeatedly happens throughout history that the current great athlete of a sport is prematurely put at the top of "all time greatest" lists at the time they're competing (however i personally believe yuna already proved herself as an all time great not only for her technical and artistic prowess, but because of what she did for skating in her country).

    the west isn't the be all end all, kim gets more coverage in korea than any skater in the west, ever.
    anyway, this isn't about kim's status in korea..

    even comparing kim to more recent retired skaters is off the mark. i still consider plushenko a current skater. kwan and yagudin definitely benefit in these polls from their relatively recent careers but you can still see some minor effects from their retirements, even if they still dominate. much of their fanbases are effectively dead. kwan has been retired since 06, yagudin even earlier in 02. plushenko's overall legacy has been buffed up dramatically ever since he returned to compete in vancouver. even if he still loses some polls to yagudin, it's a lot less extreme. a decade alone makes a difference, forget skaters from the 80's, 70's and beyond. but i would say fsuniverse has a higher percentage of old time skating fans than is typical of the bulk of the current skating fandom in general. there are newer active skating communities where 90 percent of the members are very young and only seriously got into skating in the last quad.

    and you're also missing the point if you bring up the fact that certain skaters were on top during periods where their country had peak skating coverage and endorsement opportunities. some skaters were just much more popular than others at their peak regardless of achievements but due to other factors, that's a given.
    my point is that an older skater's fanbase will not be well represented online compared to a current skater, period. so if skatinganalyst thinks yuna is the undisputed most popular skater of all time outside of korea based on some facebook poll, he's dreamin' :shuffle:
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  30. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    In almost all the commentary did not.
    I'm not sure you have seen what the country's commentary.
    all of commentary I've seen, They did not noticed it. (British Euro / Universal Sports / CBC / finnish commentary / France Euro) they all did not noticed the wrong edge during a program.

    Even in the british Euro, he said:"(terribly undermarked), She did 10 points better than that, it's ridiculous"
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
    l'etoile and (deleted member) like this.
  31. HVS

    HVS Member

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    Hey, don't make yourself look fool like that :lol: :rolleyes:

    Many many people who are not korean love Yuna so much.

    Many many people who are not skating fans, even don't know anything about skating, deeply moved when they watch Yuna's skating, they don't understand the technical, but they know it very beautiful and touching

    And Yuna is not simply a famous skater outside Korea. She is the biggest celebrity, the queen of CF with endless ads and also is super good looking, Korea wave is very strong all around the world, so it's obvious her name is VERY WELL KNOWN outside the country. Many fans don't even care she is a skater, just love her because she is Kim Yuna who is very perfect, this is the fact!
  32. shoocreme

    shoocreme New Member

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    I never meant to imply that yuna has NO non-korean or non-skating fans. my comment was meant as a very general comment referring to the mainstream public outside of korea. figure skating just isn't a big deal in general in most of the world. people like skatinganalyst try to paint yuna as a global superstar on the level of michael jordan.

    your assertion that the "korea wave is very strong all around the world" is an example of the same type of exaggeration seen above. it is huge in asia, especially southeast asia, and to varying degrees in the rest of asia, such as china. in japan it also has a strong presence although recently there is some backlash. additionally, some korean dramas have found success in a number of latin american and middle eastern countries. but most of these successes have been isolated, they are in no way indicative of korean pop culture truly becoming mainstream outside of asia, yet kpop fans continually exaggerate the success and influence of the korean wave :rolleyes:

    you're probably the same type of person who claims that kpop is "huge in america" just because some kpop acts sold out madison square garden, or that kpop is "huge in europe" because the crowds of fangirls/boys who showed up to the airport (never mind that hundreds of other foreign acts manage the same thing..).
    the average person outside of asia doesn't know what kpop is besides gangnam style. you know who goes to those concerts (besides asian-americans and korean-americans)? the type of asiaphiles who are members of anime club and major in east asian studies ...
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  33. HVS

    HVS Member

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    Asia have more than half the world's population, about 60%, add up with a "few" success in america, western ... is it not huge? :lol: I'm not say "it's the best wave" or "it's the storm" or something like that, but don't deny its effect

    "The greatest of all time" obviously depend on own mind, every people has each "greatest", so don't bash or deny other's greatest.

    Example: You can feel free to say "FOR ME Witt (or anyone) is the greatest" and others will respect that, but don't say "Yuna is not the greatest, her fans are so exaggeration, do they think Yuna is bigger than other big names, keep dreaming ...." blah blah blah, it's not good

    So, for me Yuna is the greatest, i don't need to dream to know that ;)
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  34. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    its all relative
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
  35. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    Saying Witt is greatest is a joke. I dont care how many titles she won, her skating cant compare to Kim, Kwan, or even Yamaguchi and Ito, even factoring in her era. Even in her own era she wasnt the best artistic skater. Caryn Kadavy, Anna Kondrashova, Tiffany Chin, and Rosalynn Sumners were more artistic, they were just all too inconsistent in jumps and didnt have the political clout of Witt. Yet artistry is her strength as her jumping is a joke. Atleast Henie and others were incredible in their own times.
  36. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Well, Katarina Witt was a great jumper. She didn't attempt the most difficult jumps, but the jumps she attempted were very good : powerful, distance, flow...
  37. HVS

    HVS Member

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    Well, I said it as example anyway :rolleyes:

    But really, that not a joke if someone else think her as the greatest :cool:
  38. ehdtkqorl123

    ehdtkqorl123 New Member

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    I see an evil conspiracy in this thread...
  39. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    If only i could give reputation points.
  40. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I think Yuna will be considered the greatest of HER time. Same with Henie, Button, Witt, and so on. I just don't believe one can compare skaters from different eras, different techniques, equipment, not to mention the codes they skated under. Yuna and all those that followed from 1990 forwards didn't have to contend with compulsory figures. By the same token earlier skaters didn't have to worry about triple-triples, quads and so on. Earlier skaters like Madge Syers had to deal with discrimination in their sport (females were said to be penalized if they were 'too athletic'), Syers had to skate in a skirt down to her ankles, different boots/blades, and so on. There are just too many variables to compare skaters from different generations. It's just not possible imo. Oh, and let's not forget skaters of earlier eras who weren't white-they had to deal with the worst discrimination of them all. They weren't even allowed to skate in many competitions, represent their country, and so on. I could swear I once read (was it Boitano) a quote from an Olympic champion skater who felt that the greatest skater of all time was quite possibly in Harlem-but we'd never know for sure.
    npavel and (deleted member) like this.