Kharis RALPH Asher HILL

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by pani, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but for me Tobias & Stagniunas medal look like a joke. This look like Shpilband force nothing more.
    I understand now in ice dance nobody watching did dancers skate with music or no. But R-H FD was most difficult at this competition, and they must have higer marks in CH and Tr.
  2. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    No, that was the problem. They didn't succeed in getting the higher levels. They got only level 2 on their steps, and a level 2 on their final lift. If they had gotten level 4 on the lift, they would have the medal. And it looks like that lift was designed not to get level 4, for that matter. (It didn't have enough rotations).

    But without doubt, Ralph & Hill had the coolest twizzle sequence at Skate America.

    Grushina/Goncharov pulled the same trick back at Olympics 2006 as Tobias/Stagniunas did here: Tobias & Stagniunas really worked the code of points, and used the fact that if you go slow on the footwork and use very open holds, you might be able to hit those edges enough for the higher levels. And they picked music that really appealed to the crowd for both their programs (Shakira, Let's Twist Again, Only You, & Tutti Frutti, so that the crowd was really on their side, despite it being an American crowd and not a Lithuanian crowd ;) )
  3. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    So how judges could give credits for skaters, who use not too much open holds?
  4. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Change the rules.

    Open holds are not penalized right now and closed holds are only slightly rewarded.
  5. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Did you talk about positions in step sequenses or in transitions?
    Because if you are talking about SS - i think they really need to change the rules.
  6. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Step Sequences in Hold

    Them's the current rules Rule 603, § 4

    Then for Level 4:

    Nothing says you have to deliberately pick tricky, difficult holds, but hand in hand does not count as a hold.

    This question from the Judge's Handbook is apt:

    If a couple includes Hand in Hand Hold (not sustained) between Kilian and Tango Holds,
    does it count for one or two Changes of Hold?

    You might get a bump for a difficult hold in transitions, but the actual wording is

    and the guidelines for 9.0 to 10.0 in Transitions is:
    When you drop down to guidelines for 8.0 to 8.75, the word 'difficult' is still used for hold, but by the time you have dropped to 7.0 to 7.75, it says:

    So really difficult hold might get you an extra .25 in transitions from some judges, but no where else is it rewarded, and only excessive hand in hand skating is explicitly not rewarded, and if you're at the R&H level & Tobias & Stagniunas level (mid 6's), difficult holds are not gaining you much at all. You would be better to work on getting Level 3 for your step sequence - which also improves a number of PCS components, since you would then have proof of stronger edges.

    So to reward difficult holds, you'd have to change the rules.

    In fact, I don't think the rules even have an explicit definition for a difficult hold right now, other than 'not a hand in hand hold', but I could be wrong about that. I just don't remember one.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  7. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Doris!
  8. csparkles

    csparkles New Member

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    The number of rotations was not the problem with the lift, Doris. It's a one handed rotational with change of level, which does not require as many rotations. The problem was that the lift has to go up and down one handed with no assistance form the other arm of the man. As Kharis goes up she is a bit twisted, and Asher has to use his other arm to put her down or she would fall, and there goes the level four, which they got at Nebelhorn no problem. Such a shame, it was a beautiful skate. They also got level three circular footwork at Nebelhorn, but as every dancer and coach knows, every tech panel can see footwork differently, and it's very easy to lose a level.
  9. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Ah! I thought it was planned with the 2 hand set down.

    Yes, the tech panels are all very different. Judy Blumberg is definitely a tough stickler, and I know she was at Skate America.

    Their FD was very nice indeed.
  10. jl22aries

    jl22aries Active Member

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    This FD is one of the ones I've been re-watching. I really like it.
  11. pingu

    pingu Well-Known Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmdYWw404g4
    I like what the commentator is saying in this video :)
    I was lucky to see both the SD and FD at Thornhill this summer, and in the SD (especially the beginning) Asher Hill reminded me of Leroy Johnson from Fame :D
  12. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Asher is a little hawtie with a beautiful smile while Kharis has a very lush figure for an ice-dancer.....very nice looking team, at least I think so (shallow, I know). I'm looking forward to seeing them in "person" this weekend. They get the award for most improved team :)
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  13. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Well, he did the right thing. Better to be safe and skate another day, than to take the risk and be sorry.
  14. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  15. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  16. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Love, love, love that program......good luck to them at Nats. Who choreo'd it, anyone know?
  17. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  18. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    From Aher twitter - they will use Can-Can for SD. Cant wait to see! Hope they will impress me next season, like they did with there tango at WCH!
    And they will show SD at Thornhill in August.
  19. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Reposting this from the Canadian Dance thread:
    A competition thread for COS Summer Skate in Thornhill has been started in the 2012-13 Kiss and Cry forum.
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Ralph/Hill, Gilles/Poirier and other dance teams coached by Carol Lane & Co. will perform in an exhibition organized by Scarboro FSC/Ice Dance Elite on Tuesday, July 31st, 7-9 pm in Thornhill, Ontario -- more info here: http://www.sfsc.on.ca/so_you_think_you_can_judge
  21. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    I am just back form the scarborough show. I think R&H have come a long way. They have a great connection and sense of timing and have matured as skaters with much better lifts. I liked both their programs though their FD isnt complete so they skated parts only. Her dresses were mature and 'normal' . I think the cancan dress could be improved a bit - felt it was not frou frou enough.
    SD GIgi and cancan
    FD Barcelona

    Was also interesting to see Paul and Piper. Their FD was interesting to WIld SPirits which is good for her high energy I still felt it wasnt dancey enough and relied on a number of tricks. She still needs to get her stroking to be smooth and edges to be deeper. Paul is really a fabulous dancer.
    Disappointed in the SD to Mary Poppins but its early in the season.

    Justine Chiu was there so we should be seeing some nice pics.
  22. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    Wild Spirits?? What style of music is that?

    Thanks so much for the report.
  23. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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    Western ? Western Rock ? Western Pop?...something like that , I think.
  24. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for report!
    What is "Barcelona"?
  25. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Wild Spirits was quite wild! Almost reminded me of Duchesnays stuff.

    Barcelona - was grand sounding hadnt heard it before.

    I liked Brent and McKeen too and Desveaux and Rasguliev has a very nice free dance.
  26. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  27. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Pani
    Just a sense of them not any one thing. Havent seen the Duchesnays programs since they were performed.
    Dean had input into the program but choreo was L&R so maybe that is what gave me the sense.

    I wish she would go to Tracy wilson for basic stroking skills. I find Hanyu's stroking much better than before.
  28. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
    And what about R-H music? Is it the same a gave a link before?
  29. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Pani,
    Didnt see the link before.
  30. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  31. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    :(
  32. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    What video? If you mean my link its Freddie Mercury, Montserrat Caballé - Barcelona
  33. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    The one you put up links for. Youtube does not tell you what video when you are in a country for which the video is not available.

    If Freddie Mercury's Barcelona, this is a version I could view

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsB4a--WRTs
  34. Pratfall

    Pratfall Active Member

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  35. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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  36. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Pani they are skating like seniors now with a new confidence and joie de vivre. Its good that they are developing that connection too. I preferred their SD to Paul and Pipers.
  37. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  38. Shayii

    Shayii Well-Known Member

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    I love this team so much! And this SD I just love it, I've seen it three times already which is amazing because I didn't think I would love any SD. I hope they do well this season.
  39. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    I really enjoyed that SD. That ending is such a crowd-pleaser too!

    Is the CD pattern shorter than the rhumba and waltz? It seemed so. Maybe that's why this season's SD can work. A short CD pattern can allow the skaters to create more cohesive SD programs?
  40. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    ^..It seemed short to me too which is good IMHO. I'm not really enamoured by the polka or polka music for seniors. They're fun to dance to at an Octoberfest, but that's about it. I've got my fingers x'd for this team to move up. They are unique.