Judges' Favorites

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Leticia, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. Leticia

    Leticia New Member

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    It seems every season, there are certain skaters, who mysteriously are held up by the judges, and the rules are manipulated to justify their wins.

    How is this "Favorites" created?

    Federation? Sponsers?
     
  2. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    quality of blades moving across ice? Judges love that
     
  3. winterone

    winterone Banned Member

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    There is no doubt Jason Brown is a judges favorite. He is very talented and has a bright future in skating. He most definately got the benefit of the doubt at nationals and they made up for his mistakes in the pcs. They couldn't let him slide too far at nationals as JW was around the corner.
     
  4. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

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    I believe they use the results of the many FSU polls to determine who will be their "Favorites" each season. (FSU really stands for Favorite Skaters Unveiled.) :slinkaway
     
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  5. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Interesting question, but I think this may belong in the trash can. We are just trying to guess or speculate here.

    IMO judges do have their favorites (they are only human, and this is a subjective sport), but they do have to follow rules so they can go only this far. I do believe the federations influence the marks too.
     
  6. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Judges Favorites:

    - Patrick Chan
    - Kim Yuna
    - Carolina Kostner
    - Jason Brown
    - Adelina Sotnikova
    - Julia Lipnitskaya
    - Michelle Kwan
     
  7. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    I know, right? Isn't that weird?
     
  8. VALuvsMKwan

    VALuvsMKwan Wandering Goy

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    ;)

    Irina Slutskaya
    Oksana Bauil (eligible days)
    Navka and Kostomarov
    Grishuk and Platov
    Kiira Korpi
    Evgeny Plushenko
    Miki Ando

    This should be fun. :watch:
     
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  9. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

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    It must be some sort of conspiracy! :mad:
     
  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    You would think that it was important stuff like the choice of a costume or whose coach was sleeping with which judge, but apparently it's blades moving across the ice!!!

    Who knew?
     
  11. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

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    Darts.

    The judging panel gathers, simultaneously with the skaters' draw for the initial starting order, at a secret non-disclosed location. They take turns drawing numbered darts from a small velvet bag and aiming them at a dartboard in the shape of Sonia Bianchetti's face. The dart that lands closest to her right nostril represents the starting order of the skater who the judging panel will place first. If a dart lands on her right ear, the skater with that starting order will receive questionable < calls; if a dart lands on her left ear, the skater with that starting order will receive benefit-of-the-doubt calls. Because this "judging dart draw" occurs at the same time as the skaters' draw, the judges are unaware of which skater is represented by which dart; therefore, this is considered an unbiased selection procedure untainted by national bias.

    The procedures for pairs and dance are a little different: for pairs, the judge must throw two darts concurrently and the distance between the darts is measured and combined with the distance from Bianchetti's right nostril to determine final placements. For dance, two darts are thrown concurrently and the technical panel assigns a level of difficulty to the toss based on the spiral of the darts in the air, and the rest of the judging panel gives a GOE to the beauty of the toss and a PCS to the timing and rhythm of the toss. This information is fed into a computer program written by some computer company based in Michigan, which in turn spits out the final placement for that event.

    For Synchro... well, let's just say that it can get bloody. :slinkaway
     
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, they could have. Farris got chalked in PCS at nationals then went on to beat Brown and win silver at JW, nearly taking the title with a huge score. Now granted, his SP at Nationals was a bit of a meltdown, but his FS was not actually that bad, the 65 in PCS just hurt him, as he had been getting higher than that all season in his junior internationals. If he had gotten the PCS that he had been getting internationally at nationals, he would have finished ahead of Jason, Brandon, Max, and Keegan in the FS. Another example is Rippon who got 5 points more in PCS than Miner in the FS at nationals but finished behind Miner, who medaled, at 4CC where they both skated similarly.

    Nationals inflation seems to be conveniently applied to skaters who "need it" because something important is missing from their skating. For Jason, it's the 3a, for Rippon, it's a solid 3a and quad/not being the strongest jumper in general, for Alissa, it's not being a strong jumper, for Rachael in her heyday, it was not being a great spinner or not doing anything with particularly high quality. Skaters like Farris or Miner don't really receive much nationals inflation, they have solid jumps including solid 3as, so they don't need the USFS promoting them a lot to do well internationally because their skills will speak for themselves and if they do well, they will score well on the basis of the strength of their skating.
     
  13. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

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    Plushenko
    Patrick Chan
    Carolina Kostner
    Navka-Kostomarov
    Totmianina-Marinin
    Laura Lepisto
    Amodio
     
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  14. martyross

    martyross Active Member

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    My speculation: it can depend on the nationality of the ISU sponsors. This year, they should be Japan, France, Finland, China and Italy.
    edit, no China
     
  15. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    A lot of the skaters mentioned above are judges' favorites because they actually skate well. Imagine that!

    Think about this - if they weren't better than the norm, why would they have become the judges' favorites? Unless 5Ai3 is right & there is a dartboard in some back room.
     
  16. gingercat

    gingercat Active Member

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    An interesting fact. ISU has video's for judges to watch showing the ideal and not so ideal to look for and to reward. Sad to say they use current skaters for these demonstrations. Does this sway the eyes of some of the judes? If you know who they use and you see the results never changing - I say absolutley YES!
     
  17. VALuvsMKwan

    VALuvsMKwan Wandering Goy

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    Have we forgotten KONSPIRACY and POLITIK so soon? :sekret: :bloc: :bribe: :puppet: :drama: :blocjudge
     
  18. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Judges have their favourties, that's for sure. But does that equate to judging bias?
     
  19. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    People, please. Some of you sound like you actually believe the judging is always fair and never subjective :rolleyes:

    Yes, those skaters mentioned do skate well. But so do some others and yet sometimes we feel it's the wrong one on top of the podium. This is when judges play favourites.
     
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  20. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you.
    But for some skaters, there are objective facts that they are overscored on some PCS. ;)
     
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  21. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    So then the question is actually "Who are skaters that get held up", not who are judges favorites.
     
  22. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Well, of course individual judges have biases and sometimes favorite skaters.

    But that kind of favoritism will vary with the individual judges and they'll cancel each other out.

    When all the judges score a certain skater higher than jump content or artistic appeal to fans would suggest, it's more likely in response to something about the actual skating that may not translate well on video than to all the judges getting together and conspiring to overmark that skater.
     
  23. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    It works on both sides of the coin - the Technical Elements as well as the Component Scores.

    COP allows judges to have possibly a big influence by applying very positive GOEs for a skater's completed elements (effect multiplied by up to 12-13 in the long program) just as much as applying inflated component marks...
     
  24. luna_skater

    luna_skater Well-Known Member

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    THIS.
     
  25. Leticia

    Leticia New Member

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    yeah, but can you say that about 2008 world Kostner's second finish, or 2010 world Lepisto's third finish? I heard lots of booing from the crowd who were watching their actrual skating.
     
  26. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

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    Plushenko┬┤s (non-existent) Transitions for example

    :rolleyes:
     
  27. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Blades across the ice.

    As has been said time and again on this board, Kostner and Lepist├ have some of the best basics of any skaters of the CoP era. Those who were booing may have been watching their jumping instead of their skating. The judges look at both.

    Also, with respect to 2008, much of the booing was due to fans' perception that the fourth-place finisher, Yukari Nagano, had landed a triple axel in the Free Skate. The jump was marked as underrotated.
     
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  28. geod2

    geod2 New Member

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    What you say makes total sense and they cancel each other out the overwhelming majority of the time, and if they don't it isn't noticeable and doesn't really matter.
    But with only 9 judges it's mathematically possible for an imbalance in the bias of the judging panel that isn't cancelled out by others on the same panel to make a difference that is very noticeable to many fans. Someone mentioned Lepisto's bronze at 2010 Worlds. She edged out Miki Ando by 0.8 points for that bronze.
    It doesn't take much non-cancelled out bias for that to have happened (I'm not saying it did happen).

    The main points are still:
    1. Judges are only human not machines.
    2. Their natural, unavoidable bias cancel each other out or don't matter in the overwhelming number of competitions
    3. Some fans have a bias toward remembering only the few times when they think (but have no proof) that judge bias affected the standing/medals/results.
    4. The correct judging of skaters based on the quality of their performances is the norm to such a degree that obsessing about the few exceptions is pointless.
    5. Natural human bias is NOT the same thing as konspiracy.

    -
     
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  29. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    The Mike Pike?:D
     
  30. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Your analysis of the Adam/Ross scenarios make no sense to me.

    Adam was 7th after the sp at 4CC. He barely missed the bronze. And his PCS should have been 5+ over Ross at Nats. I don't see the favoritism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
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