Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Fan123, Jun 21, 2012.
Perhaps you're more idealistic than most. Very few recover from scandal.
Just to clarify, the Ivy League has NO athletic scholarships. Financial aid is all need-based. And, they are permitted to play in Bowl games, they just generally aren't good enough and/or don't qualify according to toughness of schedule, etc. IIRC, the last time an Ivy team played a bowl game was in the 1930s, a time when the Ivies were pretty good at sports.
Unless your coach is morozov, then you'll just cry on twitter that you want to kill yourself because he dumped you for a teenager, and all of skating will just look away, just like they did when your pairs parter used to smack you around.
Maybe I am. While it's true that very few recover (completely) from scandal, that doesn't mean that some can't make at least a partial recovery, in time.
What happened at SMU?
A bunch of stuff, their "slush fund" was one of the major violations.
Of course, I thought that Baylor's basketball scandal deserved harsher penalties than it got, since it involved the murder of a player (by another player) and the coach taking part in an attempt to deflect the murder investigation from the team (among other transgressions by the coach).
Where did I say that?
“I Hope Tim Tebow Rapes A Kid”
"This is ridiculous. Joe did so many great things for Penn State. This is being completely blown out of hand. Your letting one bad thing out weigh the so many positive things. Its appears as though this is being done to please people who probably arent even big supporters of PSU." (emphasis mine)
"Joe doesn't deserve any of this crap. Shameful, cowardly and knee-jerk."
These are just a few posts that disgusted me. It is clear to me that these posters are the type of people who would have also protected Penn State football over protecting kids. Sorry if this disgusting me offends anyone.
A commenter at cnn.com has declared that the fans are now "victims", too, and no one cares about their "suffering".
We take sports just a bit too seriously if this constitutes "suffering". No perspective whatsoever.
When my future BIL was a junior in HS he was playing an away game & the ref made a bad call at the end that cost us the game. Parents & fans stormed out on the field & I remember one of the mothers (my Sunday school teacher) hitting the ref on the head with her purse. People were screaming & cursing & fighting - it was an absolute disgrace. The division fined our school & barred us from division play for the next year. You would have thought someone died, the grief for some people was so intense.
It is one of the reasons I seldom watch team sports - people get so caught up in the team & their record that they lose all good sense. Winning is fun but it has become such big business that values & morals are secondary to the win.
I watch team sports. I love baseball. And I watch college football. I think that team sports can create a sense of community that is sometimes lacking in our lives. Roger Angell's classic piece called "Game Six" about the 1975 World Series speaks to this very well.
But I have perspective. I can sleep at night when "my team" loses. I don't consider myself to have "suffered" when that happens.
I would also say that I don't think avoiding team sports allows us to avoid that lack of or potential loss of perspective. The word "suffering" was thrown around the skating boards in regard to Alissa Czisny's placement at Worlds this past spring and the posters were not referring to Alissa but to themselves. (Although, I am pretty sure that was not here...can't remember for sure).
I don't think it's fair for those students currently at the school to be punished for Sandusky's crimes. Take away the pensions of the administrators involved and open the doors for the victims to file lawsuits against all who kept quiet. If criminal charges need to be filed against those who remained silent, let it happen.
The problem is that the Freeh report confirmed what was suspected about the culture of Penn State: football was above all else on that campus.
The only way to change that dangerous culture is to take football down a level. Perspectives would not change if it were business as usual with winning football teams and bowl trips and the possibility of conference titles.
Our local college football powerhouse was the first team to play Penn State after the scandal broke and Paterno was fired. For a few days before and a few days after, there was all sorts of perspective here about the place of football and priorities and how wins/losses and sports are not all that matters. A week after that game, the team lost badly at Michigan and everything was back to normal with fans ranting about how they had been personally let down by the team losing and the "state of the program" and the competency of players and coaches and winning football games being the single most important thing in the state.
I guarantee you that opening kickoff at PSU in a month and a half, with no sanctions, would have brought out the same return to a complete lack of perspective on life outside of college football. Go look at their official website today. Nothing about this. But there is a handy countdown to kickoff at the top.
I was quite pleased to see that the current football players are allowed to transfer and be immediately eligible. I hope those who want to can find another school (though scholarships may be tougher to get at this point.)
Given how touch NCAA sanctions can be for schools that provide extra meals or clothing to athletes, this doesn't seem to be out-of-line given the magnitude of the loss of control.
Perhaps it will also serve to cause some other schools dominated by the football culture to question whether their institutional control is adequate.
I linked in the thread in "Other Sports" the info on transfers. Schools that take PSU players will be allowed extra scholarships and have the number adjusted for next year.
I don't think this is harsh penalty at all. The only think that will hurt them will be the money-both the fine and the last of revenue that the football team would bring in these 4 to 6 years.They will be able to get players but definitely not good players but in a couple years that will change because the players will be able to go to post season play in their career. Penn State will probably get a new coach in a couple years and the football team will be fine in a few years.
Something needed to be done but it won't change anything. People don't want to believe their friends are capable of bad things and football is everything in a lot of places. Those things taken together and there will be more Penn States.
That's very good. Has the NCAA ever done that before?
Apparently it is standard when sanctions on a program include loss of post-season play.
Demanding sanctions will do nothing. These sanctions aren't the result of a rape- they are the result of a 14 year cover up by university officials to protect the "good name" of the football program and it's coach. The reputation of the football program over the protection of innocent children.
While rape is horrific, and one is too many, you can't compare situations IMHO.
If a university engages in a massive cover up of any kind of sexual assault and the athletic department is directly involved, I'm sure the NCAA will react as it did here. However, if a player or coach is a perpetrator, proper legal action is taken, and the university and athletic department respond appropriately as soon as any report is made, sanctions would not be necessary or appropriate.
Penn State is not being punished because Sandusky molested children. They are being punished for the complete lack of response when they became aware of his actions.
I am quoting this because it needs to be seen again. Some people don't get it and you worded it so much better than I could have. I will add, though, that is was not just their lack of response but that they covered it up as best they could for YEARS. They responded, just in the worst possible way.
You asked which was worse, the enabler or the doer. And these fans you quote are part of the culture of enablement that happens in college sports. So apparently you see a scenario where what they are doing is worse than molesting and raping children.
I just find that bizarre. Just as two wrongs don't make a right, two wrongs aren't equal because they are both disgusting.
Well I don't think it's fair either. But then life isn't fair sometimes.
I don't know, something just does not sit right with me and I cannot figure out what it is (and I am from PA)... I keep thinking that this whole scandal is bigger than Penn State and that the school accepted these penalties quickly and completely in order to cover up something larger and more scandalous. No data at all, just a weird feeling. Wish I could shake it. Anyone else feel this way?
I live in South Central PA plus I am a student at PSU (adult learner) and I have that same feeling that this scandal is a lot bigger than PSU. I believe there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
What effect will this punishment have on the football players who are at the school now and do not want to transfer to other schools?
According to the news conference, the players that do decide to stay will be allowed to keep their scholarships, but they must meet certain academic standards.
Why are you twisting my words? In my very next post I admitted that the pedophile is worse:
So did the people who knew & did nothing. I agree the pedophile is worse but the enablers are also despicable. The pedophile is sick in the head and/or has urges he is not able or not willing to overcome. The enablers covered it up for monetary or social reasons. They all make me sick, as well as the fans who are now outraged for Paterno & the football program & care nothing for the victims.
But I do think the fan who said he hoped Tim Tebow rapes someone is not only disgusting but potentially dangerous.
According to this article, PSU accepted these sanctions to avoid the death penalty:
That is quite likely as everything would have been discussed with PSU officials before the announcement.
I thought taf was referring to the likes of Paterno et al who knew what was happening, and actively covered it up knowing Sandusky would rape more children as a result.
Under the law, people who actively assist in certain crimes are judged equally guilty of those crimes. For example, if a bunch of guys rob a liquor store, and one waits in the get-away car while the others go in with guns and rob the place, the guy driving the car cannot say he didn't actually rob the place so therefore he can't be charged with that crime. The law views them all as equally guilty because the crime involved all of their participation. If someone is killed during the robbery, the get-away driver can be tried for the death penalty in states that have it bc the law doesn't distinguish the shooter from the driver.
Similarly, prosecutors are now going after church hierarchy for their role in enabling child molestation. No one is saying they actually did the molestation. But prosecutors are charging them with criminal conspiracy and in some cases for the actual abuse suffered bc they knew what was going on and facilitated its continuance. Personally I think it's high time people who facilitate such crimes be held equally accountable under the law. There's nothing bizarre about it (and no, I don't find it a lesser crime one bit).
We will never know, but IMO the NCAA caved to pressure from the Big-10 conference to not give PSU the death penalty. The other teams in the league would have lost $$ if PSU went dark for a year, and they weren't about to let that happen.