Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Ninchen, Jul 27, 2010.
I didn't know quads and triple axels were performed by Junior Ladies these days. Good to know.
And we will see how often Chan's consistent with it. And frankly it didn't look like much steps at all.
First of all - I wrote about Chan; how many Quads did the guy land in ISU competitions? Yeah. Moving on.
And second - I wrote: junior/ladies jump content. The "/" in this case meaning "or" or "and". If I meant junior ladies, I would have written that. And yes, there are ladies out there who do a Triple Axel. And junior men who have the same jump content as, well, every man these days.
Also, at what point did my post come over as a very serious analysis of anything? It was a joke, for heaven's sake!
(not the most intricate steps, but still...)
Because you are actually referring to skating skills. However skating skills are not just crossovers but also involve multi-directional skating. And then also reflecting the quality of what the skater is doing.
Watching lots and lots of crossovers, no matter how well done they are, does nothing to make the program interesting and that should be reflected in the mark.
Inman is not the only one responsible for the criteria. However I don't have a problem with the criteria and find it quite useful.
Well seeing you obviously have a clear idea about what transitions are, would you care to educate the rest of us? Because it seems you know more about it than a judge of many years experience. Or maybe you could become a judge and teach the rest of us a thing or two about it because heavens know we need a lot more judges involved in the sport (you don't get paid of course).
Yes he could before he got married...
lets watch the ubers go rabid over this one.
Agree with you but, why does Brian keep harping on about the quad. I mean he's like the Plush ubers who keep repeating that he will go down in history as one of the greatest skaters of all time. DUH, we already know that, and if his programs at Olympics were clean, with his quad he would have won. They weren't clean, he had wonky landings therefore he got silver.
Back to Brian... IMHO he is a great jumper, a good (not great) spinner, his footwork and edge quality I would say is only average, and his speed is great. His choreographic style is not too much to my liking but it beats blowing kisses at the judges, gyrating his hips and gesturing that he is number 1 (while skating like number two's). Brian will go down as one of the best there has been, as will Plush.
Chan never attempted a 4T in ISU competition. He has landed several triple axels.
How condescending of you to feel the need to link me to a dictionary.
I am a native english speaker, and, yes, I know the meaning of "and/or."
You wrote "junior/ladies," which, I suppose can be taken in a number of different ways. It could mean juniors (men and ladies) or ladies (senior and junior). You need to clarify your posts before scolding others for misinterpreting them.
I like Joubert, but I don't really feel like we'll see him grow as a skater if all he does is focus on the quad. Maybe if he did a little less, he might actually loosen up about it and land a few more. :shrug:
Joubert understood perfectly the purpose of that mail: to create a conflict between him and Plushenko and to make fun of Plushenko. But Joubert is not stupid, he knew that certain persons were trying to attack Plushenko no matter how and he didn´t fall into the trap. Next time Mr. Inman should try something smarter!
Joubert said he didn't want to watch Lysacek's performance after the fact. He didn't watch anyone live:
So it's like he couldn't learn anything from quad-ful or quad-less skating.
Except for the part of the criteria that requires variety, difficulty, and intricacy.
Jesus! Evan won but Takahashi could win as well, Plushenko too, etc. Just because Evan won without a quad doesn´t mean that all the skaters until the end of time will win without quads.
Who can predict how many quads, triples, spins, etc, will have the 2014 Olympic Champion, or the 2018 Olympic Champion or the 2022 Olympic Champion, etc,etc,etc. Did Yagudin decide in 2002 that the next Oly Champ. will win with two quads, or Plushenko in 2006 that the next will win with a 4+3+2 combo? I don´t understand why is Evan so special. FS is changing constanly! But your story was funny, even very silly.
Congrats to the interview, Titi! Good one!
I still think he want batshit crazy there. His scores for Weir were not justified. Weir sure had much less transitions than other top skaters, but still not some that would be only woth 3-4s. That was insane.
Have to agree there. If someone with Lepisto's jump content wins a world medal, something is just not right in this world.
Exactly! That´s the point! The debate quad vs. transitions is a false problem, Jeremy proved it! Personally I don´t get it!
For the first time or for the second time?
"Perhaps,...," pardon me, Ms.. "one of the most (if not numero uno) controversial skaters as well" Are you sure? Right here on FSU, it might be the truth, but elsewhere, I don't know. Anyway, for any personality in any circles, being able to attract world's attention at any time is already a big achievement in another sense. We, the superfans of Evgeni Plushenko's, do not mind at all the controversy here on a daily basis, and neither does Evgeni, I firmly believe. My only regret is that the newly crowned Olympic champion might feel lonely as well as hurt, for most people' attention is still focused on the silver medalist instead of on the deserved gold medalist.
As for Evgeni' s behavior after the Vancouver Games, he said/did nothing wrong about the indisputable fact: the quadless Olympic champion in mens singles skating is a big slap in the face of the corrupted COP system as well as a permanent standing joke in the figure skating history. Like every poster speaking your mind here every day, Evgeni Plushenko is entitled to express his heartfelt views on the figure skating and its scoring system, for he has been into his beloved profession for more than 20 years. He did not disgrace his name but simply tell the truth that his rivals/haters find hard to swallow. To demand a false gentlemanly statement from Plushenko on the figure skating is always hard.
BTW, it is not Plushenko but a Canadian pairs who "whined to the media about how they were robbed of the gold medals" after the competitions in Salt Lake City.
Wow, you are pretty amazing. All I can say is that I'm glad we have people like coaches, choreographers, skaters and some judges in the sport that know the figure skating more than you do, and don't need to be told that doing cross-overs and 3 turns are not really considered "transitions".
I seriously have no idea what you are trying to get at. Did you miss the point that even Plushenko himself knows and admits that he doesn't have transitions? Why are you trying to defend him against that?? Are you trying to tell us that a skater of Plushenko's level doesn't do transitions because they truly don't know what transitions are, since the criteria don't spell it out clearly enough for them, and therefore they should not be criticized or marked low. Like, seriously?
that was the best argument of this thread. And really it is true, i never thought marriage would damage the romance AND a bielman!
What reputation? Plushenko never had the best reputation, everybody knows that he can´t restrain himself when he has something to say. Let´s ask Evan how angry is he about what Plushenko said? Is he crying all the time, did he fell into a depression? I bet he is LHAO reading FSU and so is Plushenko!
I remember that a few years ago some of Joubert´s fans were complainng that Plushenko treats so bad poor Bjou and Bjou was suffering, etc, etc. Joubert seems very angry with Plushenko indeed, that´s why he never performed in Plushenko´s shows and never said that Plushenko was a nice guy!!!! FUUUUU!!!
The skaters have to improve, but the judging system has to improve, too
I agree with Joubert´s words: The skaters have to improve, and would say that along with CoP they have actually improved on many areas. And I´m sure the skaters continue to improve. About the judging system, yes, it has to improve, too. The judges should give scores for what the skaters are actually doing in that particular competition, and not based on reputation. Joubert himself has gotten way too high PCS scores in all events (just refering to e.g. that Joubert had higher PCS than Buttle in 2008 Worlds, LOL).
Inman should continue his campaign about PCS scores, nothing wrong there if somebody wants the judges to judge PCS (e.g. transitions) correctly and not based on reputation.
The main point was that the JUDGES were giving Plushenko sevens for transitions. They are aware of the very vague criteria for judging transitions. When Plushenko said he did no transitions well judges based on the criteria can say almost anything done with the arms, head, legs anything can be a transition. I just think Plushenko was talking about blade edge transitions. And transitions are not just things before a jump anyway! Transitions are any moves done between any elements! The definition of a transition has narrowed down to who does a spread eagle or iina bauer before a jump! Nowhere anywhere in the defnition of transitions does it say anything like that at all! Like why am I watching skating? To see ina bauers before a jump? I DON"T THINK SO!!!
The jump content that won her a world medal was for me sad. I wouldn't have had a problem if she had won a world medal with her Olympic free skate.
Gil-Galad, you are such a humorous poster here that I almost lose my tongue in response！
Wow, one interview and now the discussions are on page 5 already lol
And thanks Titi for doing that interview, imo it's a good one!
Only by you. I don't think anyone has interpreted transition that way.
Good question. You should rewatch Top Jump and old Plushenko or Stojko performances and stay away from places that actually discuss real figure skating.
The most incredible thing of everything for me, it´s the fact that a really interesting and nice interview with 27 questions, is reduced to the quad and to Plushenko.
Have not we talked about it enough already?
I like Brian's sincerity on having admitted that he thought of leaving the skating after the Olympiads, and that the OG are not his competition.
And I am glad that he wants to be coach, it will be funny to see him in the K&C.
Didn't plushenko's complaint help change the cop in a direction that if the new COP was in place that would have given Plushenko the gold medal?
so ISU indirectly agreed with Plushenko...
We don´t know that. Plushenko lost because of his poor performance, it´s not like he was clean but he lost because of the system.