Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Lexxandra, Mar 11, 2011.
Was Johnny fined for not disclosing that injury prior to the 2006 PGF?
To your first point, I think that a poster who never has anything positive to say and takes every opportunity to slam kinda gives an inkling that they're not a fan. I don't think that grants authority but it sure is a short leap to that conclusion for any reader of such posts. JMO
To your second point, there are definitely other skaters who get criticized on this board but I don't feel the absolute venom that I do from some posters with regard to Johnny. Obviously I'm not the only one who feels this. Perhaps it's due to the fact that Johnny is more "out there" both aesthetically and just in sharing his life with fans so they have more ammo to criticize him than most of the others. It's just that for every balanced, sane post like FigureSpins' there are a couple of posts that he's a lousy skater, a waste of protoplasm, a buffoon, and could only possibly be appreciated by those in the "shallow end of the gene pool". Almost every thread about Johnny ends up like this and it's always the same accusers and the same defenders with a few innocent bystanders thrown in for good measure.
I had to laugh when your said there are plenty of sites that never criticize him and that it so true. In fact the little monster almost has 100,000 followers on twitter! Most of them tell their members to stay away from this forum because of all the haters but I like a good scrap so I hang in.
I think Johnny and Rachael should do pairs. Can you imagine the vitriol from some of the posters on this board?
Glad you hang in REO ... these FSU playground scraps re Johnny would be so much more boring and tiresome without you. As we know, Johnny needs no defending, but the vitriol and the bullying often gets to the point where it should not go unanswered, as trivial as it tends to get. You always bring sanity and perspective into the fray. Thanks for that.
Thanks to you too Justathoughtabl ... I like your straightforwardness. Some posters seem to live and breathe off being cantankerous just for the heck of it. Taking your words and turning them inside out because they don't like what you said is just one of the ploys. Brave of you too, to stick around here.
you are kidding right? See Lysacek, Evan; Plushenko, Evgeny; Chan, Patrick; Flatt, Rachael; Lipinski, Tara etc,etc,etc,
And justifiable too
But you should know that it's the hypocracy in your posts just pisses people off. It seems that only you, or gushing fans are allowed to criticise Weir in your eyes and frankly, unless yo've spent a long time reading through the archives I don't think you can know very much about the posters here or their thoughts on Johnny since you've only been a member here since Johnny stopped skating in the elligible ranks.
I'm a big fan of Johnny Weir, the skater, I have always loved his skating. I've given him crap on this board for being closeted, I've given him crap for his excuses, for not training enough, his choie of coaches and on and on. But i've gushed about his actual skating, his beautiful lines, poker face, posture, technical jumping skills, poker face, beautiful spin positions, and more. There are lots of good things to say about his skating, but since he's not been doing a great deal of that recently it's hard to come up with that many positives.
If you think this is Johnny specific then you need to remove your blinkers for a minute because the same criticisms are thrown at other skaters who stop skating or reduce their skating schedule and seem to struggle to find another career including Tara Lipinski, Sasha Cohen, Sarah Hughes (despite the fact it was clear she was focusing on education), Oksana Baiul (and she at least was giving it a shot in the the then buoyant professional circuit). THat's just off the top of my head, i'm sure there are many more i could add when i take time to think about it.
To be fair though, the pictures that surface of Johnny are all from proper "events" where he's going to dress up for the occasion, he's not likely to turn up to something in jeans and a t-shirt. As men we generally have such a limited choice in fashion that I applaud his attempt to find original things to wear and the balls he has to wear certain outfits. But just like I snark at other celebreties for their red carpet blunders, I'll likely snark at Johnny too for his red carpet blunders! And I still say with the bowl cut fringe he reminds me of the the short guy in the first Shrek film!
Sure lots of skaters are often trashed on FSU. This fact is often used as a cover and defense for the hate directed toward Johnny.
In any case, OGM Evan Lysacek no longer receives the level of criticism he used to here. In fact, there is an ongoing positive thread celebrating his activities and accomplishments. Fans and non-fans comment there in a generally adoring or respectful way. Any criticism or hint of criticism tends to be minimal. Certainly that thread has never descended into the weird snarky twilight zone of most Johnny threads.
The criticism of Rachael tends to be directed toward her skating. Rarely do posters have negative things to say about her as a person. Those who do have nasty personal things to say are in the minority, and are criticized for their comments. A review of the recent Rachael-related threads demonstrates that fact. Rachael also has fans here that support and defend her, many more than does Johnny, simply because most of Johnny’s fans have been driven away from FSU by the hateful, obnoxious attitudes toward him and them. The other point is that the recent criticisms and threads concerning Rachael have to do with the events at Moscow Worlds and the aftermath, plus the USFS reprimand that just occurred. Those threads would not have continued for this long if they were just about what Rachael wore last season, or about her hairstyle, or her programs, or her prom, or her recent appearance as a Sports Broadcaster contestant.
I haven’t seen any recent threads solely about Tara Lipinski. Of course she is often a target of criticism on FSU, but again, there are no 1000-post threads about Tara that descend into sniping and gratuitous snarking, which of course occurs here re Johnny on a regular basis.
Unlike Johnny, Patrick Chan has more or as many fans as he does critics on FSU. The recent threads criticizing Chan were mainly generated by last season’s judging controversy during the GPF, and by some comments Chan made during pre-Worlds interviews. Again, the level of personal criticism of Chan is not the same here as that directed toward Johnny on a regular basis.
Evgeny, bless his heart and his jumping ability, has generated a lot of criticism here mainly because of his response to coming in second at the 2010 Olympics. The criticism of Plushy seemed to begin after the 2006 Olympics when he received such a high score in the sp. The level of vitriol against Plush has been high and heated on FSU, but still not as snarky, gratuitous and hateful as that directed toward Johnny here on a regular basis.
It is definitely a welcome surprise when there seems to be a time-out on the gratuitous snark in Johnny threads, but then it tends to start up again. Of course not much of it is really about Johnny, it's about the perceptions, misperceptions, views, and hang-ups of his numerous critics, several fans who hang in on FSU and some neutral observers. I'm sure Johnny does have a few more fans here who avoid Johnny threads like the plague.
I don't venture into Lysacek threads since he neither interests me as a person or as a skater so i wouldn't know about now, but while he was competing there was a loooooooot of vitriol. You may be familiar with judgejudy who likes to stab Evan wherever s/he can!
You are not reading the same threads I am reading then because I've waded through Flatt threads where is called fat, ugly, her costume makes her "look like a ham", poor technique, unpolished, trucker driver and on and on. The criticisms of her skating while injured are at the same level as the ones that criticise Johnny for the stunts he pulled when he skated. She gets the same appearence critiques, but in my opinion they're worse because they are about her being unattractive. Most criticisms of Johnny are about his hair and clothes, most of them are head scratching asking why such an attractive guy wears things that make him unattractive.
There was one recently because of an IFS article about her and it prompted all of the usual comments, including new criticisms of yet another revised history about why she stopped skating, the seriousness of her injury, her sursuit of acting etc. Naturally, given that Tara has not skated in the eligible ranks for 13 years, the vitriol has died down, but if you want to try to compare like for like, look at posts from 1999 or 2000 and she is a thousand times the whipping girl that Johnny is at this stage. Comparable in the "who does she think she is trying to be an actress"/she's just a fame whore arguments.
I call complete BS on this comment. Chan is the perfect example of the skater that has his ubers and his haters. I will happily admit to being a hater based on the constant crap that came out of his mouth, rubbishing opponents, one day lauding one aspect of skating, then the next lauding another once he'd learnt the skill. He made the kind of public errors that Johnny gets called for. This year I have put my "hatred" aside because you know what, he did what i wanted to see - he shut up and let his skating do the talking. He got his head down, learnt new skills and put it all together into a beautiful package and worked his butt off, and more importanly (for me from a personal perspective) toned down his interviews and comments and let his skating do the talking. The reason there is less criticism of Chan this season? There is less to criticise, he shut up and skated.
Again I call BS - the level of comments against Plush are exactly the same as those against Johnny, just wade into the "From Russian with Love" thread or the re-instatement thread. Not only are those threads more active, with more people participating there are all the same types of attacks on Plush as their are Johnny.
To be honest I think it's a simple case that being an uber of a skater (which I say as a card carrying Kwaniac ) means that you are more susceptible to being pricked by the snarks people post about your favourite skater. All of the skaters we have mentioned come under the same type of criticism, you just feel that Johnny has it worse, because you like him that much more than the other skater being criticised, I know this from my own experiences in having much less tolernace for criticisms of Kwan than I do other skaters....they key is to realise it and try not to prickle. I know how hard it is believe me
First of all, thank you for your polite, reasoned response. It makes a big difference when the discourse is not so snarky. I should point out that some of the same people who accuse me of thinking Johnny is perfect use my statement about my dislike of his hair as fuel for their argument about who is allowed to criticize. Clearly they recognize that I'm willing to say negative things about Johnny.
If I come off as a hypocrite, then I'm not communicating well. I said that criticism of Johnny is all well and good, but the overall tone is one of snark and mean-spiritedness, and there's very little positive commentary from those people to balance it out. I'm not trying to police comments. I'm just commenting on what I see. It's just weird that it's so overwhelmingly negative and that actual news about Johnny is largely ignored in favor of snark about little details in those articles. But it makes sense that people who would actually be interested in the news have been scared away by the snark. I lurked for months before posting because it just looked like a snakepit.
If this tone is common throughout the board, then I take back what I said about it being exclusive to Johnny. However, from what I HAVE read (particularly the Evan thread in the past few months), it's not true. There is some criticism, but people pay attention to the content of articles and react with either civil discussion (including mature discussion of criticism rather than snark) or gushing praise. In any case, IF the tone is common throughout the board, then that is where this board got its reputation for mean-spiritedness. Again, it's a very weird way to discuss your favorite sport. I can understand occasional snark; it's human nature. But when it starts overtaking the actual discussion, then you're just in bullying territory.
One note: Johnny is skating as much as a non-competing skater with no invitation to Stars on Ice can reasonably expect. He's been doing ice shows regularly in between all his other stuff. Sometimes he looks great on the ice, and sometimes it looks like he could have put a bit more time in at the rink before the show. But based on his Twitter, he goes to the rink a few times a week at least--whenever he's at home. And IMO he never looks like he's let his skills go too much--and numbers like Heartbroken are absolutely stunning.
I don't know, I think some people just like to say that FSU is meeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! I think FSU is known for being more snarky and PG-13 than other universal boards. I know I post on different skating boards and my filter is set appropriately for those boards but FSU is a place where I will write unfiltered as people tend to be less sensitive than other boards.
I would say the tone is equal all over the board, but like i said i don't follow any Lysacek threads for reasons I have already mentioned. The only thing that I can hypothesise about the lack of criticism for him now is that he has the OGM. People can slam someone all they want, but their arguments (at least about their skating) get very thin if someone has the hardware to prove their worth. I don't like his skating but what do i really have to say if someone counters my criticism with his gold medal in Vancouver? Sure i can say plushy was unispiring, Dai and Chan both fell. Others are in my mind better skaters but they were not so on that night, case closed. He has also been unctroversial in anything he has done since the Olys, written no tell all book or but himself on the line and open to criticism in the way Johnny has so there is simply less to say about him, full stop. (and he still has a crappy axel ). I imagine the criticism for Johnny would have gone down too if he had won the gold, but, if he did everything post Olympics the same he would still have people slating his clothes and hair (and probably some decisions - see Tara Lipinski!). I also imagine that SOI would not have passe dhim over had he been the OGM so maybe things wouldn't have panned out the same had he won.
I too follow Johnny on twitter and he seems to be at the rink an awful lot....and got us excited with the talk of training quads!
This, in a nutshell, is the reason I was a lurker here long before I finally decided to register for this site. I refuse to participate in negativity and putting down skaters for various reasons. I will contribute to topics I find interesting and not geared towards bashing anyone.
His injury happened AT the competition during a fall on a triple axel.
Here's some logic for you: you can't notify someone of something until it actually happens.
More Johnny Weir news:
He's performing at Skate for Hope in Columbus, OH, tomorrow, 6/18. I think he's also teaching some sort of workshop.
One thing that annoys me: He's doing Bad Romance again, according to his Twitter. He did it last year. I know he has a new Edith Piaf number and hope he'll do that too. Even though I like his Gaga stuff, I really love Heartbroken and Piaf and wish he'd do those two. (On the other hand, people have come to expect Gaga from him.)
It's for a good cause, though--cancer research. Can't wait to see the videos.
Thanks for voicing your assessments and expressing your points of view antmanb. However, just because Johnny is a huge favorite of mine, and I respect his humanity, does not mean you know for sure that I like this or that skater more or less than another skater who is the target of gratuitous criticism. I like and respect many skaters. It is definitely easy to become caught up in some of the silly arguments and snark that goes on here. Internet conversations can often lead to miscommunication, but it happens here more often because of the no-holds barred way many people have of expressing themselves which I doubt would happen as much in face-to-face conversations.
I speak up for the way I feel about Johnny and I refuse to be bullied or to back down, because I have strong opinions and I’m not afraid of voicing them. I also want to level the playing field just a little in these Johnny threads, and I have no problem turning the crap some people enjoy throwing out back on them. So in these Johnny threads, when I have been accused of insulting posters and wanting posters to think the way I do, it is quite laughable. Some posters here enjoy hit-and-run prickling and snarking for the heck of it, but when they are prickled back with their own stingers they often can’t take the heat.
As I’ve said before, and similar to the sentiments expressed by Justathoughtabl, I view Johnny in all of his complexity as a human being, but I feel no need to constantly voice criticisms of him, because he gets more than enough of that here, much of it baseless and gratuitous. In any case, to each their own perceptions about how much snark various skaters receive. In the end, it doesn’t make much difference because it’s kind of a ridiculous excuse for flaming to claim, “Oh, Johnny gets his fair share and no more than anyone else.” I simply don’t see that, and not just because Johnny is one of my favorite skaters. I love Michelle Kwan too, and there are certainly critics of her here, but they rarely try to tear MK down in a personal way, whereas with Johnny it’s a common sport here. Sometimes the Johnny comments are quite harmless and funny, but more often they’re not.
Once again, when vitriol gets thrown around it’s more reflective of the person spewing it than it is of their target. So, yes, I’ll throw their own vitriol back on posters sometimes, and that’s simply reflective of who I am – someone with strong opinions, who is not claiming to be right about everything, but who refuses to back down against bullying and gratuitous snarking. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, and sometimes I learn a lot from other posters even when I don’t agree with everything they say, but that only occurs when there is civil and engaging discourse, as on occasion happens in some threads.
Thank you, paskatefan. I admire posters like you who are able to stay above the fray and who come here to celebrate skaters and share their love of skating. ETA: Many of us here can learn a lot from your example.
Oh, so calling people who criticize him "a shallow spectrum of the gene pool" was a compliment? Thanks for clearing that up!!
And if you truly are interested in "leveling the playing field", calling differing opinions "hate", "vitriol", "gratuitous criticism", "snarking", and "bullying" is not really an effective way to go about it.
Um, that was me, not aftershocks, and I wasn't referring to people who criticize Johnny. I was quoting (see the little marks?) a person who crabs about Johnny's recent endeavors in pop culture which s/he ALWAYS says, ad nauseum, can only be enjoyed by those "in the shallow end of the gene pool".
You get your little knickers in such a knot about things that you forget who you're quoting and in what context!
As for calling certain opinions hate and vitriol and snark. They are sometimes. Like antmanb I usually stay out of Lysacek threads because as a Johnny uber my opinions would always be suspect as mere sour grapes and besides the man is about as interesting as a doorknob. (snarksnark) There's a difference between snark and hate JMO. Look at how you reacted when you thought the gene pool remark was directed toward you. So then should we not feel the same when it was actually directed toward Johnny's fans? We are Johnny's fans.
Um, no, it wasn't:
Well, does this mean that REO and aftershocks are the same poster? Did that person get confused as to which "personality" made the "gene pool" comment?
I think REO was referring to this post of his where he quoted the gene pool comment made by someone else.
OMG you're right! It must be catching. I stand corrected but agalisgv is right. And no, Val, aftershocks and I not the same person. Actually I'm really posting double as overedge and REO so my two natures can war with each other. lol
Why is snark being thrown around here as something bad? Do you guys even know what snark is?
Yes, there is a difference between snark and hate. I can understand why an uber would see everything in a bad light, though. It must be hard to be an uber. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is out there to get your beloved. And why oh why does everyone else get more praise than my beloved? Yes, I meticulously gathered all the information, fed it into Excel, made charts, comparisons, I know what I'm talking about and I can prove it! As well as the fact that I'm intellectually superior to y'all who can't comprehend all the awesomeness and delight that is my beloved and see his True Soul.
Johnny and his remarks/actions have nothing to do with people perceive him, though, right? He is a polarizing person and will always get strong reactions. Deal with it. I am a fan of someone who's very polarizing and even though I love many things about him, he does annoy the shit out of me sometimes, too. I refuse to idolize anyone.
Fit in wherever in your meticulously made boxes and labels, but as much as I like Johnny's skating, I find his off ice persona off-putting. He can sound and behave like a twit and personally I have no patience for it. More for you then, enjoy! I reserve the right to call him a twit, too. If that makes me 1. "ex-fan", 2. "HATER!" in your world, so be it. All that makes you an uber in mine. Which is basically someone who takes their fandom way too seriously.
ETA: As for FSU in general. Different boards have different tones. If the one here doesn't fit your tastes, feel free to find one that does. I will never understand why people start posting on a board they don't like. Unless chastising others is your thing, I guess. Or proselytizing perhaps? Why do you think that an entire board should cater to your tastes? BTW, if you think FSU is bad, you really need to get around the Internet more. And I'm not talking about fan boards.
Thanks for clarifying, on both counts.
Calling people "haters," "ubers," and "twits" sounds very high school to me. I'm wondering if we can just get past name-calling and labels. It really has less to do with this board specifically and more to do with, "Are adults really like this?" Yes, you find this tone all over the Internet, where people can say whatever they want to other people under protection of anonymity. And it always has me wondering where people's manners are. Calls for civil discourse seem to be pushed aside and dismissed because it's much easier to go the other way.
There seems to be a lot of anger and defensiveness. Once again, can't we all just calm down? Sorry if I started this whole thing. Clearly the two sides don't understand each other--I know several of the things I've said have been twisted, including the idea that I want the entire board to change for me, as well as the idea that just because I defended Johnny a bit, it means I think he's perfect--so this argument is pointless.
I agree with WindSpirit that Johnny is a polarizing person - read any thread about him - and that snark is just being a wiseas$ which is bread and butter to me lol. I always call myself an uber but I don't think I take my fandom too seriously. I don'[t follow him around the world or have a site or blog dedicated to him or anything like that. I guess it's the polarization that makes me want to defend him tooth and nail. When a poster goes past the snark and into the haterz realm I go into uberization mode.
So you are into chastising others and proselytizing.
Like I said, I seriously don't get it. I read many boards, I post at several. I don't post at boards (or even read them) if I don't like the tone of the entire board. I don't expect the entire board to cater to my tastes. "Oh you shouldn't do and say that, I'll tell you what you should do."
There are many, many boards out there. Find the ones you like or set up your own and make up your own rules. Don't try to tell us we don't hold our pinkies at a "proper" angle while we drink tea.
If you think it's an OK thing to do, go to, say, TWoP or better yet, Survivor Sucks and trying telling them what they should do. Not only would you get your ass kicked, you'd probably get banned too.
You don't have to follow him around the world or have a site or blog dedicated to him to be an uber. I don't think those are things that make someone an uber anyway (unless you meant follow them around the world literally, but that would make someone more of a stalker than an uber).
If you want to defend him "tooth and nail" and if you think your actions are justified because of someone else's actions, that's another story though.
If you keep track of how many times other people have been praised/criticized compared to the person you're the fan of, same thing.
You guys are at a general board, not a fan board. We prefer a laid-back, informal atmosphere. Same goes for the language. If you're so emotionally invested in someone, you might not necessarily like what's being said about them. The "haterz realm" has a very different threshold to someone who's not so emotionally involved and someone who is. In other words, you are more likely to see red where other people wouldn't.
Like I said, I'm a fan of someone who's very polarizing and if I could give you any advice it would be this. Pick your battles wisely. Better yet, stop seeing everything as a battle. It's not your job to defend them "nail and tooth". Most of the time there's not even a reason to. Some people will like them and some will not. Accept that. If the person you're the fan of says/does something controversial, you are not responsible for the fallout or lack of thereof. Learn how to let go. If you don't want to be perceived as an uber, don't behave like one. If you do, you're most likely to do more harm than help and why would you want that? Let other people have their opinions. The person you're the fan of is going to be OK no matter what you do. Lighten up, you'll enjoy your fandom more.
You guys are so sure that Johnny gets slammed here the most. But we've heard that from many other fans. Some people get slam more than others, absolutely, but it's usually happens when that person does something to be in the news, especially if it's controversial. Plush got TONS of criticism for his behavior and statements after the Olympics. Patrick Chan got his share, too, a few years ago. Evan, just for winning the Olympics. Etc. Johnny's outspoken and he is controversial and polarizing. You gotta take the bad with the good.
Actually I did mean literally follow him around the world. He has several who do!
I think the difference is that Johnny gets slammed for his personal life more than his skating. There is always the homophobia agenda lurking too, which adds to some people's defensiveness. I, personally, have no trouble with people who criticize if they do so with reason and moderation but there are a couple who are truly nasty. If you think we shouldn't reply to those people then there is no dialog and why have a forum.
Quite frankly I think alot of the heated back and forth comes about because people take a couple of words from a post and then try to twist the meaning around just to be belligerant and get people's fur up. Maybe they just gave a post a quick read and didn't really comprehend but then they shouldn't reply, and there are some who make that a staple of their posts.
Anyway I do this for fun. You can be assured it doesn't really affect my life negatively. lol
Totally agree with everything in this post.
I certainly didn't mean to tell others what to do, but why are people so defensive, even if they think I did? What I find strange is that I get told off for "telling others what to do" in a non-belligerent way, while people who are belligerent towards me don't get told a damn thing.
I made one little comment about how weird it was that so many comments about Johnny were negative, and it blew up. And suddenly I'm a self-righteous "uber." Ah, well. I went somewhere where my opinion isn't popular-- what did I expect?
Oh because we're so homophobic here.
Yes, the best way to get a dialogue going is to reply to people who are truly nasty. Because by arguing with them you're going to change that. We have thousands of members, there's enough dialogue going without engaging the trolls.
And you think it's your job to straighten them out?
You argue with people for fun? How wonderful. I'm glad you know how to spend your time wisely.
I don't think Reo was saying either of these things.
And that's just what I was talking about. Purposely using something someone posted and twisting it in a way as to make that person seem foolish. Do you truly think a person would not reply in kind? That's what most of the problem is. If you look up a couple of posts you'll see me admit I made a mistake to overedge in something I said. The two of us seldom agree about anything but I admit when I'm wrong. What I meant was that I participate in this forum for fun. I don't argue just for the sake of it.
As for the homophobia comment I know you are right in the main, but there is an element that seems a little iffy. Actually I just meant that that issue makes some people touchy and they may be more defensive than need be about some comments.
I realize you're just trying to say that we should try to be a little more tolerant and high minded and that's a nice concept but if people say things like 'Rachael looks like a ham' or 'Johnny is an idiot' some people can't let that go.
I didn't "purposely twist" anything you wrote. If anything, I misunderstood you. But thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. You speak about other people's defensiveness so much and it turns out you're the defensive one. Quelle surprise.
I think you're reading too much in what people are saying and way too much when it comes to their intentions.
All that only shows me that you're on "high alert" about anything that might be perceived negatively about Johnny.
It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? A reasonable, intelligent non homophobic person could never ever think Johnny can be an annoying twit, could they?
If you can't let it go, you're just going to prolong the issue, which does seem to contradict your goal.
BTW, I wasn't necessarily trying to say that you should try to be "a little more tolerant and high minded," I was trying to say that you should relax and enjoy your fandom. Not think of it as a job to defend Johnny "tooth and nail". Trust me, he's going to be just fine without it. Even more so, since never has the uberdom made anyone see the ubers or the person they're devoted to in a good light. On the contrary.
Okay well we're doing exactly what you've been preaching we should not do so I concede the argument to you on all points and go off to enjoy my fandom like a good little poster without any opinions of my own or the will to respond to anyone with whom I disagree.
Probably not for long. lol
Hardly. But the fact that you ignored most of my points has been duly noted.
You feel you're on a mission, reason is obviously not going to solve it.
Johnny's personal life is open for discussion, opinion and criticism because Johnny has made it so with his reality show, his book, his Twitter postings and his interviews. That's the difference.
I have to disagree that there is "always the homophobia agenda." While I can't speak for every FSU member, as a collective group, the idea that FSU is at all homophobic is laughable. In fact, because FSU is open and liberal, with many gay members as well, I've found that gay issues - and jokes - are openly discussed in a very inclusive way. Further, I've found that just about every time the very notion of homophobia comes up, it's from someone defending Johnny.
If some posts are nasty - and I don't think it's nasty as much as snarky to the extreme - consider that it might be in response to the other extreme, which are the repeated and lengthy discourses on poor, persecuted Johnny.
I agree with everything you say except for the statement that there is "always the homophobic agenda." When I mentioned that I was only referring to a couple of posters whom I wonder about. Certainly not the majority around here. I guess I shouldn't have used the word always. It seemed to freak some people out. I meant that in any critcism of his life outside of skating or his clothes etc you "always" have to consider if that is coming from someone who does not like him simply because of who he is. And most times I agree it's not. Like I said up thread a ways, there are times I cringe at his outfits or hairdos. I find that people read into what you say what they want to hear not necessarily what is actually written.
But why? Or rather, to what end?
You can't read minds in person, much less over the internet. One of the reasons many of these discussions go awry is that so many people try to identify motivations and underlying psychological reasons for why people post as they do--and I include calling people "ubers" in this.
Taking what people say at face value and trying to determine whether there is or isn't merit to it is hard enough--but discussions tend to run more smoothly that way rather than degenerating into these back-and-forth arguments about who REALLY means what.
Please stop that fake Dr. Phil talk. "There must be something within you that you feel is not right and I can sense it in you even if you can't."
BTW, it doesn't freak us out. We're just telling you you're full of it.
That's exactly what you do.
Separate names with a comma.