Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by haribobo, Sep 6, 2011.
Who will medal?
I definitely think it's a toss up between Shoji, Hicks and Lam. All of them are somewhat in the same boat and tend to score within 2 or 3 points of each other. I say whoever goes the cleanest will win this one.
I much prefer Shoji's style over both Hicks and Lam; it's much more controlled and fluid, whereas Lam is very quick and Hicks is generally all-over-the-place. Still, if Hicks manages to land her 3-3s she'll have the edge over both Lam and Shoji. Shoji has a 3-3 but I don't know if it's in her lineup.
i hope vanessa , courtney, risa with either russian lady crashing the party
I voted risa, Hicks and Polina K. But Lam and Kim also have a shot at the podium. Kwanatic, I'm on your side. Among these ladies, risa is definately my favorite. I think she should have the highest PCS in this field unless she makes too much mistakes. As far as I know, risa have 3s-3t-2t and 2a-3t in her LP. Cross my finger for her!
Lam was totally underrated at this time last year; then she beat Shoji, Shelepen and Li in her one and only JGP assignment. I'm rooting for her here; but I've likely just jinxed her by doing so.
I voted Hicks, Shoji and Lam, with Hae-Jin Kim as the possible spoiler.
I'm sort of cheating here as Lam already skated but..
Shoji, Hicks, and Polina K as a surprise 3rd!
HaeJin Kim is 1st after short.
^^ Looks like Korea's Soichi prospects aren't solely based on Yu-Na after all!
I just watched the top 4 ladies and checked out the judges scores...
Good for Hae-Jin! You can tell she's been paying a lot of attention to Yu-Na...very elegant use of her arms. What she needs to pay more attention to is the speed and attack Yu-Na carries into and out of her jumps. Hae-Jin gets good speed but then slows waaaay down before jumping. The rest of her skating was lovely though. I wonder if she'll keep it up in the FS?
Courtney Hicks's skating is beginning to aggravate me. She's just too choppy and jerky with her movements! There's nothing elegant or graceful about her skating right now. Nicks needs to rein her in and smooth her out. After teaching Sasha for all those years, you'd think his students would be the epitome of grace, gorgeous lines and control...what's up with that?
Vanessa has improved! They are very tiny improvements but I notice them b/c they bugged me last season. She's not rushing through her movements anymore; she's finishing each one out before going on to the next and I love that! Her jumps are still really low (so she needs to work on that) but that program is great and her spins are wonderful. I hope she has a good FS.
Risa Shoji got hit with a few URs and an edge call...visibly, I thought her program was great. I think she still needs time to settle into it, but I thought she presented it well. She's not that far behind in points so she could definitely still make the podium.
Judging by what I saw (and not the judges' marks w/ URs, edge calls, etc.) I'd have had Hae-Jin 1st, Risa 2nd; Courtney would have been 3rd but her lead would be less than a point ahead of Vanessa (like it is now).
Being there in person, Hicks was my favourite. Kim was good, but she had a great skate compared to her training and warmups. Hicks is dynamic, and so fast. I hope all of them skate well. The Austrian girl was absolutely phenomenal in training and warmup, then imploded in comp.
Points are very close among the top 4, so I'd say the podium is up for grabs. I wonder why Risa went for 3f-3t instead of 3s-3t? 3s is a much better jump for her, she usually always rotates it and gets nice flowout which cannot be said for her 3f (which also periodically gets edge calls) - I really hope she can pull up after the FS, she's by far my favorite in this field, and I'm surprised her PCS weren't higher, IMO her SS and basics are way above that of Kim and Hicks. Interesting that place 2-4 all had issues in their programs, had they all gone clean, I wonder who would have placed first, as their PCS were all comparable as well. I sort of think Haejin will drop after the FS, as in recent competitions she's been scoring in the 90s for that segment, and Hicks, Lam, Shoji are all capable of 100+ easily.
^^Yeah, they all did have problems...first time jitters maybe?
I'm also noticing that only one 3-3 in the whole competition got ratified: a 3t-3t by Beata Papp...too bad she fell on it.
Sasha started working with Mr. Nicks at a pretty young age, I want to say around 9. Hicks' bio from the 2010 US championships lists Scott Wendland as her coach so it seems like she's only been working with Mr. Nicks for at the most a year and a half.
I noticed that too, but those 3r combos are hard to get ratified! I was amazed Risa even managed to tack on a 3t at all after that wonky looking 3f, pretty gutsy on her part. I'm not sure if jazz is the best vehicle for her (and the music cuts seemed a bit disjointed) but it's nice to see her trying something different and she did a good job with the presentation. As for Courtney, I find her really choppy like some other posters have mentioned, but boy, does she skate fast! Excited for the FS, looking forward to seeing Risa and Vanessa's new programs!
Courtney 1st, Risa 2nd, Vanessa 3rd...all within a few points of each other, like I thought. Hae-Jin Kim dropped to 5th overall.
I haven't watched the videos yet, but somehow Courtney managed to fall twice and still get the best PCS and highest FS score. I don't get it either...but congrats to the winners.
Courtney was the clear winner, Lam was lucky. Bless the girl but she has zero height on any of her jumps and doesn't look in the same league as Courtney. Courtney does not look choppy live. I don't hate Vanessa, just don't get all the raves about her on here, especially after seeing her live tonight. I see potential, but man she needs to learn to jump higher if she want's to make it to the top. She reminds me of Caroline Zhang, with more speed and without the Mule kick...
Vanessa has the whole package but did not quite hit it here. All level 4's even the step in both programs. She just needs to really execute what she has! Hopefully the season will bring better and better finishes.
Just watched the videos, and I thought Risa was a little bit robbed here. Courtney was good too but she fell twice, and Risa landed all her jumps (I know a couple were marked <), including her two very difficult combos (3s-3t-2t, 2a-3t), nicely and has better presentation, IMO. I loved her program.
The FS scores were very close btwn Risa and Courtney and the PCS difference was only about a point, so it's not a big deal, I was just surprised. Maybe Courtney is more impressive live though.
Vanessa skated pretty well and her program has potential, glad she could hang on for a medal. I agree she needs more height on the jumps, though. She is also still very tiny, which makes me worry about her jumps in the future, although considering she is 16 and looks about the same size as last year, maybe she is through her growthspurt and is just a very petite person.
Polina K. was gorgeous and it was nice to see her skate so well in the FS, and that 3f-3t was a pretty good attempt, hoping she can maybe medal at her next event.
Poor Haejin, 4 falls! I wonder if it was nerves, but that being said she does have unusual jump technique, i'm not sure if it will survive puberty tbh.
Does Hicks know anything about lines, posture, choreo?..
So sad gorgeous Risa with clean free lost her, even though she skates slower.
Vanessa's jumps are really low, but she did pretty good and deserved a medal especially with Kim's bombing.
Polina showed great skate. Knowing she is reather nervous and easily can make stupid mistakes, she did very well her. But I don't understand why she attemted 3F-3T, she has awesome 2A-3T...
I have to agree that Risa Shoji was robbed gold. I dont understand how Hick's PCS was not affected by her falls. She took at least a couple of seconds to get back to the music after her first fall and she lost a considerable amount of dynamic-ism after her second fall. Sure, her program looked harder because it was faster and more upbeat than Shoji's but Shoji backed her program with musicality instead of choppy skip jumps between elements. I do have to say that Hick's has better flow out of her jumps but hits some pretty bad positions in spins (i.e. her lazy looking donut spin, sloppy bielmann). OTOH, I can't say she didn't do a good job because she did do well. Her jumps looked quite nice and she started the program listening the piece very well.
But, maybe, I'm arguing about the difference between a level 3 and level 4 step sequence...
Naked Ice agrees with the "wuzrobbed" sentiment...
ITA. I'm sorry but Risa was by far much better than Courtney IMO. I think she got robbed here too.
Hicks won coz judge panel thought she was sasha
^^The only way they could possibly think that was if they were horribly blind! Aside from the coach, she and Sasha share NO similarities...
Well Risa lost because of under-rotated jumps. That cost her a lot of points. She would have won if not for that.
That's only because she forgot to wear a Sasha dress this time. Oh, she needed to play Juliet for the long program.
Additionally, Courtney received Level 4's on all her spins and her step sequence. That helped her clinch the win as well, IMO.
I will say that Courtney is a victim of the over-the-boot tight. It would probably improve her line drastically if she were to ditch them.
I do like Hae Jin's skating. Pretty artistic for a young skater, but I'm certain she won't survive the puberty monster. Her jump technique is somewhat reminiscent of Kimmie's, namely the head looking down at the ice before the jump. She also makes lots of edge changes before her jump entrances and the body weight in the wrong places really don't help her future skating prospects.., :/ We'll see though.
As for Vanessa's LP particularly, I wish she would learn different entraces to her jumps. Seeing them time and time again is annoying. Another thing is I wished skaters could stop recycling the same footwork sequences for the SP and the LP. THE MUSIC IS FRICKIN DIFFERENT FOR BOTH PROGRAMS. HAVING THE SAME FOOTWORK SEQUENCE FOR BOTH PROGRAMS MAKE NO SENSE.
Hi, I just looked at the mens FS protocol and I saw Oliver Porter (AUS) get credit for a 1S+1S+3S<< which had a base value of 2.10. I didn't know you could do that. Also how do you calculate its base value?
Oh 1s +1S +3s, is very likely 1s+1t+3t<<
on further viewing it seems like he tried to take of twice and then tried a 3s. Anyway that was a costly mistake since that counted as his 3rd combo and he got zero points for his 2lz+2t. i would be interested in knowing about 1s+1s+3s<< explanation as well. may be Slyvia could help us.