Jeremy Abbott's programs this season

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Sylvia, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,925
    One of the things I love about Jeremy is that he's not afraid to try different things, different music, different styles, different choreo. He's not afraid to mix it up, and he really commits to his movements.

    Anyway, once again, for me, he hits it out of the park with his programs this year. And he's 4-for-4 on his four most recent freeskates... truly loved them all.
    Oh yes, yes, yes. Please? Pretty please? :rollin:
    But no matter what happens, I will always enjoy watching him skate. :cool:
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  2. Oreo

    Oreo Active Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2002
    Messages:
    409
    If Jeremy and Alissa both got on the medal stand at World's, I would be really, really happy.
  3. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,739
    I consider this LP very significant for Jeremy. It is truly about self- expression- he chose the music; he choreographed the program ( he and Yuko together, from what I understand). I've admired his poetic, deeply musical skating for a long time, but in this LP I feel that there is no barrier whatsoever between Jeremy's inner creativity and what he puts on ice. Very few skaters ever arrive at that. It was wonderful to see that missed jumps had no impact on the expressivity of his performance- perhaps because the program is so personal to him. That bodes well.
    So, from this gushing fan- You go Jeremy! What you do is magic!
    I really like his SP, as well ( agree with everybody, minus the suspenders). But that LP... is just special, even taking into the account that Jeremy's programs are always different and interesting.
  4. newbatgirl

    newbatgirl New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,086
    There's never been any question in my mind that Jeremy is a brilliant skater, I personally think he has better basic skating skills and interpretation than, say, Patrick Chan. In a perfect world, Jeremy's PCS would reflect that.

    What Jeremy needs, is what he has always needed, to be a better competitor, especially late in the season. Lets hope that Jason and Yuko have worked their magic on him in the off-season. There were some mistakes in his CoC LP but he largely kept his focus even after the mistakes and that's a real good sign given his history.
  5. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,167
    Thanks. By big screen, I meant my tv. (I have a small monitor.) But, this is an improvement. I hope I get to see him skate this clean and on my tv. I really love this program.

    I hope the skategods aren't listening, but I totally agree.

    ITA. His issues are primarily mental, not physical.
  6. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,357
    So well stated, and so beautifully put. Someone else also said that this might be the first program that allows Jeremy to mess up on the tech yet still feels satisfied at the end of the performance. And I so understand what they meant. He really gave it all with this program, from the start of the construction of it to the final manifestation of it on the ice in competition. The personal-ness, the privacy is exactly what makes this program so moving and captivating. Just transcendental..
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
    Miriam246 and (deleted member) like this.
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    That's it -- and that actually is what figure skaters should do (make very difficult movements and technical elements and choreography look easy). Not everyone is capable of doing this and at the same time expressing subtle yet powerful emotion and interpreting complex music. I am impressed not only by Jeremy's creativity and soulful artistry, but also by his sublime musicality -- his mother (Allison Scott) mentioned in the manleywoman skatecast that he selects and arranges his own music. But, you're right Skittl1321, it's the deceptive ease with which Jeremy completes extremely difficult moves that I think is often overlooked (definitely was overlooked/ taken for granted last season). A good sign is the judges seeming to be recognizing Jeremy's superb artistry with higher PCS so far this season than those whose strengths are primarily jumps.

    :respec: :cheer: :swoon:

    Absolutely!

    True, but Jeremy has shown the ability to be a tough competitor at Nats. I recall when he won his first Nat'l championship in 2009. In the sp, Jeremy had to skate early immediately after the anointed EL. It was as if the U.S. Fed was saying, "Prove to us that your GPF win was not a fluke." I was in the audience at Nats that year, and it was so great to see Jeremy nail that gorgeous sp.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gawOg1JXgfQ (too bad this is w/ commentary, ugh SH)

    With that performance, Jeremy said, "Take that!" to his biggest competitor, since EL was the defending Nat'l champion at that competition. Jeremy has also competed well in the GPF, but yes, he needs to take it to another level at Worlds. Hopefully, he can stick the "must-have" quad that purports to demonstrate male cajones. In my view, Jeremy has already shown that and then some. I will just enjoy watching and cheering him on all season, no matter what judges do, nor what Hersh writes for provocation. You da man, Jeremy!

    That's Yuka, btw.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  8. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,352
    Jeremy IS a brilliant skater. I've been watching that LP every day since CoC. He does have good SS and great IN but in what universe are his SS better than Chan's? :confused:
  9. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Not dissing Chan's fine blade work and ice coverage, but IMO there's no question that Jeremy is a better all-around skater than Patrick Chan because Jeremy's blade work is just as fine if not better, without calling attention to itself b/c it flows so effortlessly within the seamless whole of Jeremy's programs/ choreography. And because Jeremy has more difficult transitions than Chan, and above all, Jeremy feels and interprets the music waaaayyy better than Patrick Chan. Right now, of course, Chan maybe has more consistent quads and more rep with the judges. That's figure skating. But what Jeremy does and has is timeless, transcendant. As dinakt posted: "... there is no barrier whatsoever between Jeremy's inner creativity and what he puts on ice. Very few skaters ever arrive at that."

    IMHO, no matter how smooth his blade work, Chan for me has not reached the transcendant level b/c he lacks something, some genuine identity and connection. It seems to be all there and many seem to feel a connection with Chan's skating, but for me something's missing. (Perhaps Chan's dynamic ss tend to mask his lack of genuine on-ice identity, maturity and musicality). I'm not alone either .... Listen to Eurosport commentator after this program by Chan:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTSgo2KbeT8&feature=fvst

    ETA:
    And, yes, I thought Chan should have won Worlds 2009 with this performance (he came in second behind guess who?)

    Eurosport commentator on Chan:
    "He's an outstanding talent, there's no doubt about that. Something in me doesn't quite get engaged by him, and I don't quite know what that is. So, you have to take it for what it is, and it is a special performance."
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  10. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    3,739
    Of course:) I forever confuse A and O in Yuka Sato and Yuko Kavaguti. My bad.
  11. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,623
    ITA .... I just much prefer Jeremy Abbott probably because I like his rather introspective style. He comes across as a very quiet, reflective and sensitive person ... don't know if he's like that in real life or if he's actually a party animal :)
  12. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Yes, Kelvster, unless we get to meet and spend time with people we might admire from a distance, all we know is what we see through their public performances, words, actions, interviews. And Twitter now too. :) But that's not too deep, most of the time. Altho' you might learn snippets from following. Still it's far removed from actually knowing a person. Here are a few of Jeremy's recent tweets, I think showing his sense of humor, friendships, general mindset.

    Not in chronological order:

    jeremyabbottpcf Jeremy Abbott
    I'm selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control, and at times hard to (cont) tl.gd/e2hmdf
    [Clicking on the link Jeremy provides, this turns out to be a quote by Marilyn Monroe, which continues: "... handle, but if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." -M. Monroe]

    jeremyabbottpcf Jeremy Abbott
    It's a delightfully rainy day. Typically they depress me, but something about today makes me want to put on my Dior trench and go for a walk.


    jeremyabbottpcf Jeremy Abbott
    I just reread what I tweeted and am wondering how I possibly could have followers... #pointlesstweeting #labelwhore #tool


    Jeremy also retweets tweets by Rihanna and Lacey Schwimmer (who in turn are quoting others it seems):

    LaceySchwimmer Lacey Schwimmer
    Amen. RT @JeffreeStar: Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.

    rihanna Rihanna
    “I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not.” ― Kurt Cobain
  13. crystalice

    crystalice Banned Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    73
    Classic... !:lol:
  14. venja

    venja New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2002
    Messages:
    966
    Yummy.

    I so wish that he could get the jumps together. I love his line, spins, footwork, artistry - all top notch.
  15. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,357
    Chan does have the best SS in the world, and arguably the best ever. And I do repsect the fact that he is pushing the envelope technically with his SS. But SS only gets you so far as a performer. Beyond SS, people are looking for more. I said in another thread that I feel like Chan makes everything look like an extraordinary skating exercise, and I'm wondering if somehow it's exactly that impeccable SS that is preventing him from being truly expressive and musical. His SS not just gets so much attention from the audience but from himself as well that everything else just seems vanilla once you get past the SS.
    Jeremy's SS is already quite brilliant as it is - perhaps not on the same level as Chan but Chan is a rare exception. Given any era, Jeremy's SS would be considered great. But as far as giving a performance and pushing the envolope artistcally, Chan does not even come close. So would I rather watch a skater like Abbott who maybe doesn't quite have Chan's SS but brings so much more of those intangible, unquantifiable qualities? Absolutely.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  16. jlai

    jlai Title-less

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    8,777
    I don't wanna compare skaters, but I must say when watching skating live, speed makes a huge difference. I can see why judges give higher PCS across 5 components for skaters who are fast. It's just very exciting to watch.

    On the other hand, the TV screen makes the little movements stand out more.
    gkelly and (deleted member) like this.
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Speed is important in figure skating, but it is not everything. You can't be going at high speed all the time. Witness Carolina moderating her speed in order to refine her movement qualities and not rush through the jumps. When you are skating to and interpreting the music, a skater is not going to go at non-stop high speed across the ice. This sport is not speed skating. There are nuances and transitions (which Jeremy has in spades), and then there is speed as another important aspect needed to build toward launching into jumps. A mature program has to have all of that. I think Jeremy may need more speed going into his quad, but the requirements of the music for his particular program are also a factor. One of the most powerful moments in Jeremy's lp was when he came to a stop and bent forward touching the ice with one hand (in time to the music) paused for a moment, then lifted up, bent back with his arms out and his head facing to the sky, gliding backward.

    ITA, shine, that Chan's SS always get "so much attention from the audience [and] from himself as well that everything else just seems vanilla once you get past the SS." As I said previously, perhaps Chan's dynamic ss tend to mask his lack of genuine on-ice identity, maturity, and musicality. To me, Chan seems like a happy, eager kid who has been told one too many times what a great, wonderful, better than the rest skater he is. This is not true. Chan has great talents, and he is a champion skater, but he also has areas that he needs to work on, just as all skaters do. There's always the constant need for improvement and challenging yourself. Witness World champions S/S and their coach, Steuer, always mixing it up, going for difficulty and for the new and different, never resting on their laurels. That is what helps push the sport forward. Not over-praising and over-marking someone who may be more gifted than most in ss, while ignoring that individual's weaknesses.

    The way he's been marked its like telling Chan "Wow, those ss will bail you out every time. We are so mesmerized by your ss and you've added quads now so we might as well reserve the gold for you in every competition you enter, no matter how many mistakes you make." In 2009 at Worlds, when he skated well enough to win, it seemed the judges were sending Chan a message to stop the trash talking. Now, he can do no wrong, apparently.

    I would like to see good competition where everyone skates their best and makes it hard for the judges -- not competition where, oh well since Chan has "the best ss on the planet," it matters not what else he does or doesn't do. If everyone performs their jumps to their best, why should Chan's ss trump competitors such as Dai, Jeremy, or Kosuka (who have great transitions, better presentation skills and true artistry)?
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  18. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,352
    ^^^ :rofl: especially at the bolded text.
  19. fscric

    fscric Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    325
    Where do you get the idea that Chan thought he is the best and doesn't need to improve? He said he'd try to improve his expression this year instead of just focusing on improving the technical elements as much as before.
  20. nashvilledancer

    nashvilledancer New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    655
    Well, Jeremy's my favorite skater, but I think you are selling Chan a little bit short. The kid is young, but he is smart and he has a smart coach. He is working with Jeremy's long-time modern dance teacher, for one thing, and I saw some big improvements over last year in his current long program movement.

    The thing about Jeremy is that as early as you can go back in the video record, as young as he was, the artistry was strong and mature. His musicality and "movement repertoire" as a dancer is truly outstanding. This year's programs are a wonderful, natural maturing of his style. I love them both. I'd bet that the LP (or FS) continues to grow, too.
  21. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,244
    Just legendary.

    It's a shame these programs or performances won't be truly rewarded if he doesn't have the big jumps or land them consistently. His PCS should have seen 8s a long time ago and like Kozuka said, I am afraid it's only going to happen after / when he delivers at Worlds and wins a medal.

    I would love the singles results at Worlds to look like this:

    1. Kozuka / Czisny
    2. Abbott / Suzuki
    3. Verner / Asada
    4. Hanyu / Kostner
    5. Chan / Wagner
    6. Takahashi / Korpi
    7. Fernandez / Biryukova
    8. Dornbush / Murakami
    9. Brezina / Elene G
    10. Song / Phaneuf
  22. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    747
    Love Abbotts skating to death, but right now the only one likely to defeat Chan is Chan himself. Chan has excellent skating skills AND multiplle quads.

    That said, Jeremy's FP was otherworldly.

    He's got his spins back, and hopefully the jumps will also be there by January. He never gave up on this program- he performed it with purpose and inspiration throughout.

    Jeremy's skating is about music, ice, man. I just love to watch it.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  23. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    I agree. Probably the rest of what you wrote is a bit of a exaggeration, but only a bit. I also admire Chan's skating skills, and the speed and ease with which he is skating is impressive to watch even on TV/video. But at the same time he hasn't made it into my Top 10 of currently skating male skaters (both amateur and professional), while Jeremy Abbott is definitely in Top 5 (more precisely, in fifth place contending for the fourth or third with Buttle and Takahashi :)). And the things that you mentioned - identity, maturity, musicality and overall artistry is what makes that difference. Although I don't think that Chan is unmusical. He's just musical enough to get the needed component mark for interpretation, but not more. As nashvilledancer wrote, he is still young, and probably the maturity and personal attitude in his programs will come with time, but I don't see it yet.

    Obviously, that's the problem with young skaters now - they are mostly taught to do everything that is required to "to tick all the boxes", including in PCS, but it seems rarely who teaches the importance of personal attitude and the (real) feel for music anymore. Now it's more about the form, less about the inner feeling and understanding. So, it's up to the skater's personality what he/she will become in that regard.
    Well, Chan currently has a bigger arsenal of difficult jumps than Takahashi and Abbott, so, even if they all do them clean, Chan will still win. As for Kozuka, I can't agree about him having great presentation skills and artistry. He is good, but... Probably that's just my opinion, as he has never once truly moved me or held my attention during his programs.


    Returning to the original topic, both of Abbott's programs this season - especially this LP (or FS :)) - have cemented his position as one of my favourite current skaters. Up until now I was still prepared to be disappointed by him (didn't like his last season's FS that much), but not anymore.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  24. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,507
    Hasn't that always been the case? Some skaters are emotional, some are analytical. Some are natural performers, some are naturally shy, or committed jocks, or willing to be expertly "packaged" but not self-motivated artists, etc.

    Coaching emphasis also plays a part.
  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,345
    Chan's only competition from now until Sochi is Chan. Only a major self destruction can make him lose. The rest should focus on making themselves the best skaters they can be so they can fight for the silver.
  26. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Love your wish list for Worlds placements, Marco! Oh, but I'd switch Kostner with Suzuki, and I'd switch Takahashi with Verner (even as much as I love Tomas).

    How ironic, irony upon irony in fs. Sure, Chan just needs a bit of this and a bit of that to help give him some extra oomph and some magic, since he's already got the gold, right judgejudy :rofl: Okay, so Chan already checked out Weir to try and perfect his 3-axel and emulate "silky skating." He looks to Savoie and Abbott to learn how to incorporate transitions. By gosh, that's not enough, so he now needs to get to the source of Abbott's artistic and choreographic mastery, so why not work with Abbott's modern dance coach. Uh boy, Chan, you of superior SS, I think you must look within first. It must come from within Chantastic, or else YOU WILL STILL BE MISSING SOMETHING!

    Can't they please reward the true and complete all-around skaters who exhibit mastery in the art of skating, as well as in the technical aspects: Dai Takahashi, Jeremy Abbott, Takahiko Kozuka (fine, you wouldn't put Kozuka in this category, lauravvv. I disagree, Kozuka has much better musicality and artistry than Chan. To a large degree, IMHO, Patrick Chan is fairly "studied" in his so-called artistry, and he skates over the music -- he does not interpret the music).

    Re, you think I'm exaggerating a bit: that's the point, lauravvv, when it comes to Chan, there can apparently be no exaggeration, cause he's just so "heroic." Seriously, Chan has had above average ss, and mucho talent from a young age. He was pushed up quickly as a result and unfortunately over-hyped. Figure skating is often a game of strategy and exaggeration, because it is so political, and the IJS has added even more complexity to this most dramatic and complex sport. Chan's often given leeway in the marks when performing poorly, and his PCS are way off the charts to an "exaggerated" degree.

    If not for his mouthing off too much in 2009, Chan might have won Worlds. It was just as well he came in second there, I suppose. But his marks at 2010 Olympics were a joke in the opposite direction. One thing he learned there was "the judges seem to love me even with mistakes, and if I can perfect a quad, I will be ahead of the pack." Probably even he didn't realize he'd be considered so far ahead, he could do absolutely no wrong ever again, even with multiple mistakes in programs. And please, let's not give Chan anymore excuses, okay. Whaddup with, "He is still young." Give me a break, please. What does that make Hanyu, a baby? In any case, the quad's the thing. The sport decided to listen to Plushy and make it the sine qua non of men's figure skating.

    Like I said, ironies abound all over the place. But that's the way it's been probably forever in figure skating. Some of the very best artists are not fully rewarded for different reasons. It is frankly difficult to combine both artistry and technical ability, and even when you do have both like Hanyu and Johnny Weir, there are other drawbacks. E.g., Hanyu needs to mature and to gain more stamina; Weir had competition nerves, which he overcame, but he was never fully embraced within the sport, which was something his rebellious attitude didn't help. But fine, Johnny did his thing, and he refused to compromise, and he left a mark on the sport that can not be denied, even if it is ignored for the most part, like an elephant in the room.

    Matt Savoie was unlucky politically, and his introspective and shy personality did not help win him any influence with the judges. Matt left an important legacy nonetheless. His programs can be watched over and over again, and be enjoyed and find something new to admire every time. Lambiel is seemingly universally loved and he contributed a great deal to the sport, and I will always enjoy watching him, but I don't recall when if ever he skated a clean program in competition. Buttle finally fixed his 3-axel and made it all come together magically to win in 2008 -- he's just lucky that the quad police were taking a break that year. The marvelous Rohene Ward could barely make it to Nationals every year, much less get out of Nationals (a variety of reasons, including lacking finances for proper training, mucho competition nerves, but WoW, what a skater who combines amazing jumps and out of this world artistry. He is making a mark as a choreographer, and a show skater). Let's not even go into Emanuel Sandhu territory. But look at those who did manage to work on the artistic side of things when they had the jumps: Brian Boitano, Kurt Browning, Ilia Kulik, Alexei Yagudin, even Todd Eldredge -- tho' I know this inclusion will make judgejudy go bonkers. Of course, Christopher Bowman had it all too, but he was like a candle in the wind, or a firecracker burnt out too soon. Paul Wylie, the epitome of a great skater with everything. Paul mainly faltered due to competition nerves, but he got it all together for a magical Olympics which fueled his stellar pro career. And he’s one of Jeremy Abbott’s mentors. :cool:

    Oh well, figure skating is chock full of debates and always will be. Re your post, judgejudy, you often do make some mean sense. :D

    Off to watch Jere-amazin' again ...
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  27. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,726
    aftershocks,

    entire post;
    :respec:
  28. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    True. But with the COP system artistry has become something that is measured in numbers, which actually is not real artistry. Surely, before that skaters didn't have to work on artistry to get good marks, but, at the same time, those with an artistic inclination had more freedom. But nothing new here. This has been discussed countless times, and nothing is changing because of it. Plus, we also know that the new system has it's good points too.
  29. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    Again, agree completely. The problem is, to be truly artistic, skaters need to have a personal attitude towards the chosen music and/or preferebly have their own general vision about the style and mood of the program, not just wait for the instructions from their coach and choreographer. I think, even if the music is offered by their coach or choreographer, they must first listen (really listen) to it carefully, and try to find a connection with it, understand what the music tells them personally. And, unfortunately, this is an attitude that could cause problems if: a) the skater is too inexperienced to understand how his idea will go with the required technical elements, b) the coach or the choreographer has a different work ethic/is of the kind that wants to control everything no matter what/doesn't have the will and the patience to compromise and work with the program in order to both satisfy the skater's wishes and to achieve the needed technical content/just thinks that ticking all the boxes technically and in PCS is more imortant than some personal creativity. All well known problems. Both the personal attitude and the necessary experience can come with age, but trainers and choreographers are another thing. I don't think there is anyone among the top trainers currently to whom creativity is just as important as marks, or who would be willing or patient enough to let skaters make some mistakes in the process in order to see what they come up with on their own, and then correct them where needed (as you understand, I don't mean the execution of separate technical elements, but rather the capability to combine their ideas or separate choreographic moves/transitions that they probably have imagined with the required technical content ). I know that Peter Grutter is such a trainer. Probably he just had to be such a trainer with Lambiel, because Lambiel with his personality most likely wouldn't have been able to work with a really controlling coach - even as a child. Or he would have been broken, and then there wouldn't be Lambiel as we know him now. Probably he would have better jumps and the Olympic gold + more world gold medals in his pocket, if he had worked with someone like Tarasova or Morozov. But, as I wrote, then he wouldn't be what he is now.

    And probably Abbott would also be a better "technician", if he was not so focused on his creativity. But do we want that? I personally don't.

    As for Kozuka, it's really just personal taste, but I agree about Chan - that was what I was trying to say about him. Formally ticking all the boxes is "studied". I think he does skate to music (meaning that his skating is not in discord with music), but only formally, and I agree that he doesn't interpret it in any individual way.

    But must we really exaggerate as well, just because Chan and figure skating judges etc. are exaggerating :D? No, if seriously, you are mostly right, I just don't think that everything is quite as bad as you wrote. But, honestly, I am too lazy to explain my opinion about those things in such detail. And my post is too long already as it is.
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    Thanks for your thoughts, lauravvv ... the debate goes on in figure skating.

    Ahhhh what a breath of fresh air to see Dai (at NHK Trophy) given marks through the roof for his fabulous short program (w/o a quad, btw), not to mention seeing him skate it lights out! No matter the marks, what a joy to watch. Thrilling!

    Dai's short program and Abbott's free program -- the best of the men this season, and programs that I think will last for the ages!

    Chan with his gorgeous SS really can't touch what Dai and Abbott do in these programs. Whether its because "he's still young," or he doesn't have it within him and never will, remains to be seen. Funny that some are calling World champion Chan "still young," at the age of 21 (which he will be next month), while someone in another thread disses Johnny as having been "a grown man" at the age of 21 in 2006.
  31. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,352
    For a moment I felt disoriented. I thought I was in Jeremy Abbott's thread and it's all about the devil incarnate Chan. :lol:
  32. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2007
    Messages:
    747
    I'm just happy there's an Abbott thread at all.
  33. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    No, no, no, do not dis Patrick Chan -- he's just a happy go lucky "kid" with SS to die for. Sure, he needs more work to truly become an artist on ice. Problem is Chan's SS are so mesmerizing to some people, that as a result he's been prematurely touted and rewarded for having it all. He doesn't, but that certainly does not make him "devilish." Nor does it make him almighty ...

    The IJS system, well, that's quite another thing, entirely ... :2faced:

    Back on topic:

    I was watching Jeremy's sp again, and noticed that maybe he is fooling around with those suspenders a bit too much during the program, but he skates so wonderfully I didn't really notice it the first few times around. Ah well, here is Benji Schwimmer's take on the short program:

    "If I were to compare Jeremy's skating to a dancer, it would be Nureyev. I wanted to take him out of that box, not to destroy what he has, just to play a completely different character than himself. It's one part swing, one part Jeremy, one part absolute fun."

    Here is Jeremy's take on his free program music:

    "When I listen to [the music], I get chills, kind of, and I can see the program and feel the music."
  34. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    13,726
    Thanks for sharing those very interesting comments, aftershocks.
  35. Meredith

    Meredith what a glorious day!

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,636
    Watching Jeremy skate to this program over and over again, not once does my mind wander. Not once do I compare him to another skater. I keep forgetting this is a competitive program! I am so enthralled with Jeremy's connection to the music that everything else seems secondary.

    Love the program, adore the skating and love that Jeremy shared this with us.

    ps: Thank you, aftershocks.
  36. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,146
    Lovely performance of Adele's "Hometown Glory" by Abbott on NBC's Fashion on Ice broadcast today!
  37. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,502
    ^^ They showed only one performance by Jeremy, not the "Hometown Glory" in the white Mendel outfit. :(

    Does anyone have a link to that performance?
  38. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    Hope there will be a video available. I really liked that program at COC gala, even despite the mistakes. When he first performed it at 'All That Skate Spring', I thought his costume, some of the moves and the general feeling of it (although the theme is different) called for comparison with Lambiel's 'Ne me quitte pas' - mainly, a really unfortunate choice of costume :(. Then the comparison was not in his favour. But now he has changed the costume :)D), and it's not so anymore. I finally felt like this program is truly his own, and there is no need to compare it to anyone else.
  39. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,370
    A pity :(.
  40. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,146