Jenny Kirk and Dave Lease denied Press Credential at SLC event

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by AJ Skatefan, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,860
    Snark while running an amateur youtube channel = not eligible for a press credential per the USFSA published policy and that of most professional sports teams as well.

    Snark while employed by ABC/ESPN (aka for this discussion as a "recognized media outlet") = eligible for a press credential per the USFSA published policy and that of most professional sports teams as well.

    This is very simple. Dave and Jenny turn this into a professional venture, get a Nielsen count on the site and employ people full time, they will be eligible for credentials. At this time, they are not.
     
  2. 2sk8

    2sk8 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    780
    Remember, the stated reason was "space limitations," which seems questionable, at best. Remember that IceNetwork has a deal with USFS, else they would not be the official location for starting orders and result, etc. for qualifying and international competitions. Agree or disagree with the attitude, approach or "professionalism" of TSL, that wasn't the stated reason for denying them. I am going to go wit, "it's all about the money" - as in, how is USFS' monetary benefit from the deal with IceNetwork reduced by accrediting other "media" like TSL? Just a thought.
     
  3. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,074
    All of those are major sports, with extensive media coverage of their own. If you want to know how the local NFL team is doing in the pre-season it's not hard to find training videos and reports on all local news and then ESPN, NFL network, etc. Now if you want to see a skater's new LP before the grand prix season, you rely on local fans who have blogs, twitter or youtube accounts. Skating is not a major market sport and I'm not sure USFSA is doing themselves any favors by being as exclusive as the sports you just listed in terms of who gets press credentials.
     
  4. zschultz1986

    zschultz1986 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    I said it on GS (closing a thread that is discussing the USFSA, on a FS message board, is really curious. I'm sure they have their reasons, but whatever) and I'll say it here: Stop looking at Dave as Aunt Joyce, and start looking at him as Dave Lease.

    I love how everyone tries to bring it back to the snark, as if snark hasn't been apart of commentary (from Uncle Dick to Scott/Sandra) in America for decades.

    If you don't like their editorial/opinion stuff ("This & That") don't watch it. However, don't miss the interviews. They're always respectful of the interviewees and they get something out of current skaters that we rarely see in other interviews. The amount of past and present skaters, coaches, and choreographers that going on that show is proof enough that Dave and Jenny fill a vital role.

    Also, if they're trying to "make TSL go away" or trying to control the image their skaters put out there, they won't do it by trying to stonewall their efforts at breaking into live journalism. They're only beefing up their cred as ones who "speak truth to power." However, the USFSA is so behind the times, I doubt they'd be able to see that their actions would not have the desired effect. Yet another short-sighted USFSA decision.

    BTW, this "blog" line of reasoning doesn't work on TSL (and it shouldn't on manleywoman, either.) They get in-depth interviews, and a majority of their content is interviews, and not opinion.
     
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  5. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    9,402
    Who are all these classy, respected sports journalists, figure skating or otherwise? Are there any American figure skating "journalists" that people seem to like? Okay, Terry Gannon. Anyways, I fail to see how Jennifer Kirk's voice is any more annoying than Scott Hamilton's grunts.
     
  6. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    20,501
    Rather sad that the way to tell the difference between the amateurs and the professionals is by comparing their business models.
     
  7. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,849
    Pollyanna here holding out hope that the "space reasons" means some really big Japanese skaters are coming.

    They always have loads of media following them :)
     
  8. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,860
    The poster I was responding to was not addressing any of that, but rather arguing that the policy is "outdated". It is not.

    And, frankly, never mind the amount of press the sport gets or doesn't get, without a coherent and consistent policy as to who can have a press credential, anyone with a blog could expect to receive one. There has to be a standard and the standard that does not allow bloggers and such appears to be relatively uniform across all types of sports and events. My local minor league baseball teams, who are not drowning in media--especially the independent league team--have a very similar policies. A friend who is a sports reporter for a local paper says that bloggers and such would not be eligible for any press access to high school sports events in our state under rules set by the activities association which issues press credentials each year to assist schools in knowing who is legitimate. Bottom line is that owning a blog or making videos for youtube is not going to get you press credentials for any sport or event. That goes for major professional sports all the way down to small rural high schools.
     
    danafan and (deleted member) like this.
  9. zschultz1986

    zschultz1986 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Also, have you ever watched ESPN? ALOT of the shows they produce is COMMENTARY. The only difference is they do it FOR PROFIT. I hardly see anything that Dave and Jenny are doing as much different from any of the content on ESPN.
     
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,547
    LOL. It isn't!!!
     
  11. valyrian

    valyrian New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    78
    I just watched their video. They didn't make a good case for getting their accreditation, but they did make very good points re: USFSA and both its use of media and its support (or lack thereof) of its athletes.
     
    TheIronLady and (deleted member) like this.
  12. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    31,128
    i can believe it is a space issue. it is a smaller event and evan hasnt pulled out due to the deathliest injury anyone ever bravely faced without even a single tear. normally, the press area is kind of sparse, then a bigger name comes out to skate and all of these credentialed writers tear themselves away from the buffet to watch 1 skater, then go back to the buffet or wherever. once evan pulls out, there might be more room.

    i'm also not sure they meet the 3rd criteria in the list of things they need, maybe not the 4th either. whether that list is outdated or not is a different matter.
     
  13. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,201
    But the USFSA didn't say anything about not meeting criteria for media credentialing. They said it was due to "space issues." Why didn't they just say that they don't meet the criteria?
     
  14. aemeraldrainc

    aemeraldrainc Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    305
    Yes, please!
     
  15. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,201
  16. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    9,402
    Maybe Paul and Piper are actually gonna be there and Piper's mom paid the entire Canadian media to come to SLC?
     
    danafan and (deleted member) like this.
  17. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    18,009
    Why do they need press credentials to do interviews? They aren't going to get the type of interviews they do at official event press conferences. Just contact the interviewees and arrange to meet them in the bar or at Starbucks.

    And I agree that their announcement/call for action sounds like it was written by a melodramatic teenager. If they want professional press credentials, they should try acting like professionals. When the USFSA banned Christine Brennan, she basically sat back and let the USFSA realize the harm they were doing to themselves with the ban. She didn't write a whiny column About how meanly she was being treated.
     
    danafan and (deleted member) like this.
  18. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    20,501
    You have to be in the game, though, before they notice that they're worse off without you.

    I think they should go anyway and do as you suggest and interview away. They'll have the skaters in their natural habitat.
     
  19. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,378
    :rofl:
     
  20. aemeraldrainc

    aemeraldrainc Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    305
    Can anyone tell me what is the reasoning of GS pulling the plug on the version of this thread over there? #confused
    Feel free to pm me.

    ETA: Nevermind. Sorry about that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  21. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,240
    My guess would be that they feel that it's a thread advocating for TSL rather than actual skating news, and GS isn't big on skating websites with which they have no reciprocal relationship - they used to shut down threads linking to IN in the past, for instance (they now consider it an established news site, however).
     
  22. zschultz1986

    zschultz1986 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Redacted cause I can't read.
     
  23. genevieve

    genevieve drinky typo pbp, closet hugger Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    30,628
    Please direct your question about why the GS thread was closed to the GoldenSkate admins.

    FSU Forum Rules
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/announcement.php?f=14&a=37

     
  24. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    3,315
    First let me say that all of you should listen to what they had to say in their 30 minute show tonight. It was professional, and not a gotcha slam at U.S. Figure Skating. They were not officially turned down for not being qualified... the reason given was strictly about lack of space.

    They do have issues with the level of control of our international competitive skaters that USFS media folks exert that in fact limit the kind of interviews that can be done. Jenny and Dave are hearing quietly from both former and current top level skaters that this is the case. They are afraid to speak up for fear of being pulled from international assignments. There are topics that USFS goes ballistics over one of which is eating disorders. There are others too. The leadership of USFS is following the same power of control model that prior leaders have demonstrated.

    They are all in the same mindset on this and they fail to see the points that Jenny and David are trying to make. Do you see much figure skating on TV these days? Where has it migrated to? THE INTERNET! Lock, stock and barrel. Skating appears in paltry and limited telecasts on one Major Network... NBC and occasionally on its affiliated cable channels. No where else. What is happening to TV? It is dying and in another 10 years all viewing, HD or Regular Digital entertainment will appear on the web. TV is dying along with coverage of Figure Skating.

    U.S. Figure Skating had better wake up and smell the internet rose. Thus, their credentials policy is heading for the crap heap. It is long past time for it to be reformed and reborn. Jenny and David you can love, hate of just plain ignore, makes no difference; They are one of the new journalism models that is and will lead the change in coverage whether U.S. Figure Skating wishes to admit or not.

    Finally, 'PDilemma' your vociferous defense of U.S. Figure Skating credentialing policy sure sounds like you could well be an employee. Nothing wrong with that if that's the case; nor is it wrong to show the same closed-minded view of the new media. It is wrong however however to advocate control and power over truth which is nothing new for the leadership of U.S. Figure Skating.

    I have and continue to support much of what U.S. Figure Skating and Ice Network do for the sport we love here in the U.S. I do recognize that the way USFS controls both it's skaters and how they are presented and portrayed in the media, particularly in Ice Network articles and interviews, is a most valid criticism raised by TSL. They are all presented in the most bland and uninteresting way to the fans. Showing that these great skaters are outstanding athletes, great young people who have their own opinions, dramas, humor and humanity is what the sport desperately needs to grow a larger fan base. In this department U.S. Figure Skating FAILS!
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  25. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    5,240
    Sorry about that :) Back on topic, I can understand the USFSA wanting to restrict accreditation to media outlets with a stronger track record and/or greater visibility. Dave and Jenny are obviously very enthusiastic about skating, but they don't really do much event coverage and the sort of interviews they conduct don't require a press pass - if they did, there would be no TSL to begin with. They can still go, meet with the skaters in the hotel or wherever, and record/write up the interviews they do. For that matter, having more written interviews and reporting compared to video stuff might be a good idea for them - I think it could help them with the USFSA and can attract skating fans who don't enjoy the video/podcast format.
     
  26. Dr.Siouxs

    Dr.Siouxs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    8,500
    I don't think anyone posted this yet...

    TSL Addresses U.S.Figure Skating (posted a few hours ago)
    http://www.theskatinglesson.com/tsl-addresses-u-s-figure-skating/

    Worth watching. They also make some terrific points about the recent brouhaha surrounding Jeremy Abbott's comments. In sum: it's unprofessional for USFS not to have an official position for their own athletes to stand behind.
     
  27. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    41,384
    My .02 cents: TSL doesn't meet the published criteria for media credentialing. They clearly want to be seen as more than just a FB and YouTube blog. They want to be recognized as an established media outlet. They don't need the credentials to access the skaters, but they clearly want it so much so they posted immature whining when they didn't get it. That is my problem with them. Not their format. Not Jenny's voice :lol: Not the snarks. If you want to be a grown up, then act like one. They haven't. Whether or not the USFSA's policies are outdated or not is a different matter and certainly won't be changed by whining and getting all your FB friends to like your whines. Act like professionals if you want to be treated like professionals. Perhaps there wasn't enough space and it was apportioned out to those media who have been credentialed previously. Accept that, thank them for the opportunity and apply for the next event. Review the published criteria. Review yourselves and make certain you meet the criteria. If you want to change the criteria, there is a route with which to do so. Don't cry like a toddler if you want to be seen as an adult. And, lastly, if you want to consider yourself as a maverick who is pushing established boundaries, then don't bother with requesting media credentials and carry on with what you're doing. I don't think that's what they want; however. Their actions indicate they want to be recognized by more than their FB, blog and video followers. They want Mommy and Daddy (USFSA) to look at them. Temper tantrums usually get ignored. So Jenny and Dave, put on your big girl and boy panties and act like professionals if you want to be treated as professionals. That doesn't mean you have to temper the snark or follow the "party line." You can be true to yourselves. However, you also have to understand and accept that not following party lines may mean you don't get invited to the party. That's part of being an adult. If you don't want or can't meet all the criteria, then don't expect the official endorsement from USFSA. If you want it as badly as you indicate, then do what you have to do to meet it for the next event.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
    Capella, jamesy, peibeck and 4 others like this.
  28. allezfred

    allezfred Mince Pie Depriving Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    43,618
    It isn't nice getting knocked back for something and it is understandable to feel disappointed. Figure skating associations really need to embrace social/internet media because that is where the future is for this sport. Much of the traditional media coverage of figure skating is very dry and doesn't really connect well with younger potential fans of the sport.

    Now maybe things are different in the US, but most Senior Bs I've attended where there wasn't a "star skater" in attendance have been very sparsely attended by media. The one exception was 2009 Finlandia which was Daisuke Takahashi's comeback event and it had a huge Japanese media presence. The press room was not huge by any stretch of the imagination, but the Finnish association did a great job of accommodating both traditional/non-traditional media. I find the reason being given as lack of space by the USFSA as unusual, particularly because Jenny and Dave won't be using photo positions.

    Having said all that, Jenny and Dave have reacted to the rejection in completely the wrong way. If they had gone to Salt Lake City and done their thing, no-one would have been any the wiser whether they had been credentialed or not. They could have shown the USFSA that they took things on the chin and provided coverage that may have led to them being accredited at the next event. Instead, they have decided to be extremely confrontational with the USFSA. If I was the USFSA media officer and someone tried to shame me into giving them accreditation, I would be less likely to give it than if they had reapproached me discreetly to plead their case. The media game is all about building good relationships and the Skating Lesson has given a perfect example of the wrong way to go about it.
     
    PRlady and (deleted member) like this.
  29. Reuven

    Reuven Official FSU Alte Kacher

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    12,286
    Shine on, Lena! :glamor:
     
  30. zschultz1986

    zschultz1986 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    The one point I got from the video Jenny and Dave posted last night is that: This has happened before, with multiple online journalists. So, let's try and make this less a discussion about TSL specifically and more about the USFSA stonewalling online journalism (which is, very obviously, a BIG part of journalism now) in general.

    TSL is just another in a long line of online outlets that the USFSA has denied credentials, which is not only to the detriment of the USFSA, the athletes, and the sport; but also to us (the fans).

    Also: The video states they are STILL going to SLC.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013