Jenny Kirk and Dave Lease denied Press Credential at SLC event

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by AJ Skatefan, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,370
    They are limited in space. I suspect their recap will be a video.

    Besides, they just retweeted Phil Hersh's tweet:

    Source just confirmed that @GraceEGold is going to join Frank Carroll. Odd time for coach switch. Oly year panic?​

    I know I cried when the ISU stopped giving FSU press credentials :mitchell:.
  2. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,556
    Given that TSL's posts are predictably obsessed with Kwan still, I'm guessing Aunt Joyce is doing most of the posting. Hopefully Jenny will do some reporting.
  3. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,189
    Well since they didn't get the press credential they can do what they want.
  4. marmalade

    marmalade Hiding Johnny's Birkins

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,204
    Jenny was posting most of day one, as she made note of Dave's swooning over Max's skatewear. If you watch the newest This and That segment, it's evident that they were the head cheerleaders in that Max fangirl section.
    PeterG and (deleted member) like this.
  5. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2001
    Messages:
    13,399
    I know first-hand now it sucks - but considering no USFS qualifying competitions or US Nats are on this list, I'm blaming the ISU.
    http://web.icenetwork.com/help/blackout
  6. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,162
    I thought it was about tv broadcasting rights.
  7. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    462
    I sat near Dave and Jennifer during the pairs and men's free skates. Dave was the one tweeting during the majority of the programs.
  8. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,115
    I took a look and I guessed Dave was doing the tweeting and Jenny maybe the facebook. The tweets were better suited to an FSU pbp thread and not so much to someone who kept showing pictures of the "crowded" press section moaning they weren't deemed legitimate enough for a press pass. I think based on the tweets alone it isn't surprising.
  9. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    I think they probably would have done the same thing they are doing now with or without the press credential.
  10. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    5,498
    Well, since Euros is NOT on that list but IN is broadcasting them, I remain inclined to blame the USFSA.
  11. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    557
    I had the same impression. One gets the sense that USFS understood this would be the case.

    The one comment which I thought was particularly searing zing, was the tweet about Zhang and Bartholomay's pairs short program. "Program not Olympic worthy. Very sectional champion"

    Kind of a huge slap in face regardless of context, but especially so if one knows that at one time Dave Lease referred to Felicia fondly as his "adopted daughter" in his AUNT JOYCE blog:
    http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html

    I am most impressed with my 'adopted daughter' Felicia Zhang, who is coming along splendidly in both singles and pairs. Felicia is quite the consistent competitor and always manages to lands her jumps and throws with strong flowing edges. My daughter has taken to pairs skating so quickly that it is easy to see her becoming one of best pairs skaters in the country in no time. She will hereby be referred to as Kyoko for displaying that kind of competitive intensity and reliability. Even her level 4 skating mom would have to be impressed with the triple flips and triple lutzes that she has been landing. This is a girl who was only attempting a triple toe at Regionals a few months ago.

    A simple google search will reveal all sorts of complimentary mentions from his blog, back in 2010.

    Fast forward a few years and using the projection and bandwidth of twitter, he slams them in what I think is an especially harsh way.

    One wonders if ANY skater seeing this will EVER be naive enough to trust them (him) again. I mean, who needs that kind of commentary being generated when you are in the running for an Olympic or ISU Championship team slot? I would think they feel horrible enough about not having strong skates. Then to have someone who presumably was a "friend" turning on you so publicly. I was like "wow!" But - they are educated journalists and this is what they do. THEY are not naive. They know exactly what they are doing and the consequences it has on the feelings of skaters and their families, and have expressed repeatedly on their podcasts, that they really don't care, it doesn't bother them, attack us - "haha"

    Here's to hoping Felicia has people in her corner who support her through thick and thin, ups and downs, and the journey ahead. The world is sadly full of people who will dump you and dump ON you the moment you "stumble" and that is when you know who is truly by your side or not.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  12. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,815
    I find Lease's mannerisms in the TSL vlog very distracting, in particular the most recent one for the SLC event. It felt like I was watching Wendy Williams commentating for a vlog on the Logo Network. The USFSA doesn't need TSL for anything - now or in the future; Just let them drift off and do their own things.
  13. lauren329

    lauren329 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    Have to say I love TSL and both hosts- I think the snarkier tone makes it fun and different. I enjoyed their worlds recaps probably as much or more as watching Worlds (on the Latvian feed) itself. And the interviews are great especially in this era where we don't have skating on every weekend and barely get to know these skaters at all until an Olympics. Is it traditional journalism? No, of course not. But when there are like two people sitting in the media section, I don't get how it makes sense for USFSA to give them the cold shoulder. They seem like two people who love the sport and want to talk about it frequently and in depth in a time when figure skating fans seem to be dwindling and figure skating coverage is sparse. I don't see how that can be a bad thing.
  14. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2001
    Messages:
    13,399
    If it wasn't on the list before, it is now unfortunately.
    2014 European Speed Skating Championships (Jan. 10-12, 2014)
    2014 European Figure Skating Championships (Jan. 13-19, 2014)

    But this is OT so sorry.
  15. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    11,073
    I just watched the This and That about Day 1. I enjoyed it, as a little niche vlog; but I can see how USFSA wouldn't want to give them a credential. They'd have to give everyone on this site who filed for a credential one. Because it wasn't really reporting, it was just gossip. I like watching it, but my husband asked me if I was watching children doing a youtube video based on their tone and comments (he couldn't see the screen). He would not believe me when I said I think she was my age (she's 2 years younger than me), to the point I looked it up to make sure she wasn't just like 20 and I had my years wrong.

    If they want credentials, they'll need to set a much more professional tone. But other than the ridiculous decision that skaters would have to play to an empty side by the judges; what difference did it make they didn't get press credentials? I'm pretty sure they did exactly what they would have done either way. It's not like the fan side was too crowded for them to set up... If it was a huge event in a massive arena, maybe they wouldn't have had access to the skaters to interview, but in the small arena/rec center set up they described, with most of the US skaters sitting in the crowd to watch other events, they seem to still be able to arrange private interviews too. They don't need the press credential.
  16. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,370
  17. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,556
    Thanks. That's exactly what's I thought. Jenny deserves better.
  18. twizzlesizzle

    twizzlesizzle New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    49

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS 100%

    Ann Jensen's tweets are right there with TSL. I understand the ability to criticize and evaluate performances, costumes, etc. I'm a well-rounded educator and adjudicator and have the ability to constructively comment and react to things, but over the past few days, TSL is undoing a lot of the "good" things they may have done in the past. They have addressed the issues of disorders and such in the sport, but they've turned right around and instead of being a hopeful, helpful insight to the sport, they just slammed everyone, well, except for Max and Davis/White. To openly tweet that programs aren't going to medal and things of that nature and worse, then expect that these athletes are then going to turn around and interview with them? The word is going to spread very quickly amongst the skaters, if it hasn't already, to stay away from Jenny and/or Dave when they are nearby.

    TSL is not promoting anything. As others stated, they have their own agenda. Jenny is apparently still stuck over differences with men in her past, and Dave feeds off it (see all the "Lysacek Like" tweets). If Jenny wants to be seen as anything credible in the future in the sport of skating, she needs to fix herself now. She needs to realize that if she wants to make a positive difference in bringing people to the sport, that Dave is NOT going to help her. He's using her to get to the skaters and inside the world itself. THEY share the TSL name. There will be no individual success in this venture. They will either succeed or fail together and it seems Jenny has more to lose than Dave does. If, however, she is naive enough to keep her stance and continue down the TSL path of destruction, eventually, someone will approach her (or them) and tell them they are no longer welcome.

    An after thought... They have the D/W SD on their facebook page, via youtube. This is a video that someone taped off of IN then posted to youtube. Can't imagine that's a legal video!!! HAHAHA.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
    Stephanie and (deleted member) like this.
  19. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,556
    This x 1,000. I thought Jenny was heading big places when she began writing that very insightful blog. Hooking up with Aunt Joyce was the worst thing for her career prospects. Such a shame she's too close to him to realize that. :(
    lamarenee and (deleted member) like this.
  20. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    5,498
    NO! The bastards! :mad:
  21. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    17,644
    Yeah, I've been thinking that too. If she's serious about a journalistic career, she'd be far better off going it alone.
  22. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,368
    Jenny is so lucky to have you looking out for her.

    Have any of you ever read coverage of pretty much any other sport? Including coverage by the revered, highly-ethical "credentialled" media at various tennis matches, football games, basketball games, etc? I can think of many well-known sports journalists who make Dave/Jenny look like teddy bears. These skaters are elite athletes, not children competing in a rec league soccer game. They can handle a little bit of snarky criticism; it's the fans on this board who are behaving paternalistically.

    Re: Zhang and Bartholomay-- I don't see *anything* wrong w/ Dave's tweet. IMO it's actually generous to call that mess a sectional champion program considering how awful they skated and how empty the program is, especially when they miss the high-risk elements. Dave's tweet was a more interesting way of saying "that program is not elite-level."

    Did anyone happen to catch Phil Hersh's tweets yesterday during the ladies' SP? A sampling:

    Philip Hersh ‏ 22h
    All I can say is thank goodness Yuna came back

    Philip Hersh ‏22h
    And I can't believe Zoueva would tolerate all that arm flailing. She looked as if she were wigwagging planes on a landing approach

    Philip Hersh 22h
    Will the figure skating season never end?

    Philip Hersh 23h
    Would someone please stand up in women's SP?

    Philip Hersh 23h
    Literally tens of fans at the U.S. International Skating Classic in SLC. Might be at least 6 who aren't family, other skaters, coaches

    HOW RUDE. What a meanie! How will Hersh ever seem credible when he applies for his press credential for Nationals in Boston?
    AJ Skatefan and (deleted member) like this.
  23. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,484
    Phil Hersh sending out *sshole tweets does not make it any more acceptable for anyone else trying to brand themselves as journalists to do the same.

    A credentialed and experienced reporter making those sorts of observations is completely unprofessional, IMHO. He spent a lot of his interview with Manleywoman complaining about the disappearance of news coverage of figure skating, but his own insulting the skaters, the event, and the organizers isn't doing a lot to improve the situation.
    spikydurian and (deleted member) like this.
  24. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,556
    You're focusing on just tweets when there's a history of other unprofessional behavior. What does it matter though? I'm sure that everyone Aunt Joyce is encountering at the competition is clamoring to stroke his ego and telling him how fresh and original his catty comments are and what a wonderful job he's doing. And Jenny will probably buy into it.
  25. twizzlesizzle

    twizzlesizzle New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    49
    Some of these skaters at the competition are elite. Not all. Tell me, how many of them are actually NOT teenagers?

    Are they in the lime light of skating at the moment? Yes. Are they still of an impressionable age? Absolutely. It's complete BS to think that their friends and such don't let them know about these tweets, blogs, comments, etc. Jeremy Abbott has stated he's been with a sports psychologist for over 3 years now to help him deal with things just like this.

    The skaters who are not from the USA in this SLC competition are there. They are on the ice, trying. Whether they get 200 points or 2, they are doing it. They feel the pressure, they're scared, be it whatever it is.... The fact that other skaters, journalists, adults are so condescending onto these youngsters, is ludicrous. Why aren't there more skaters lasting longer? Well, the social media abuse today goes a long way.

    Reese... put yourself there, 18 years old, international skating competition in another country than your own, and all you hear is that you shouldn't be on the ice, that you're an embarrassment. You honestly think you can say that you wouldn't have thoughts of hanging it up?
  26. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,941
    Not defending TSL or their tweets at all, but honestly, it is part of sports. All elite athletes in all sports must deal with the naysayers...it comes with the territory. What separates the good from the great is how well they deal with it - do they use it for motivation and get even better, or do they let it mess with their heads? You gotta tune it all out. It's a struggle, yes, but a necessary one.

    Having said that, I don't condone these comments at all.
  27. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,484
    Agreed that it comes with the territory, but because of the speed and reach of social media, it can have a much greater negative impact than it ever did. And I wouldn't say that it's the less than great athletes that can't deal with it - some very good athletes have quit their sport because they're tired of putting up with it:
    http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/i...its-sport-due-battle-depression-espn-magazine
  28. twizzlesizzle

    twizzlesizzle New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    49
    The #slc2013 feed on twitter has been a source of evil, pretty much the whole competition. Gracie had something to say about it: "Although it wasn't my best, I was proud of my fight. It will only go up from here. Thanks to all of my supports and haters"

    TSL, Ann Jensen, and others.... she knows....
  29. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    I do sometimes wonder if it's sort of a myth about athletes dealing well with hecklers and constant negativity. I understand the world is tough and you really need a thick skin. However, some times it really does get over-the-top, and not every athlete has the luxury of being able to buffer themselves from that negativity (by distracting themselves with a support system or maybe a great lifestyle, etc.). I sort of think figure skating is in an interesting position. People are more polite about figure skaters than other fans are with other sports. However, figure skating also attracts a certain...catty demographic that many theatre performers also suffer from (there's a lot of talk in Broadway circles about the constant negativity performers face and how detrimental it is). Of course people are catty and wait to see movie stars and tv stars fail too, but Broadway is a much smaller community and do not have the same luxury lifestyle and distance apart from fans as their tv/movie counter-parts to help with that. Likewise, figure skating is also a smaller sport and a smaller world than many "big" sports. So although they won't face the same volume of negativity by any means, the negativity itself may be felt more because it seems to come from a closer distance.
  30. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    692
    There will always be Negative Nancy's in the world... and the skating community is no different. I'm a firm believer that your words only reflect on you, and it's up to skating fans what they choose to buy into and support.
  31. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    2,779
    I absolutely loved TSL' s recap videos which had me ROFL several times. Again, I'm ROFL at a lot of the comments here that complain about the negativity in their segments. People, you need to revisit any FSU event thread from the past ten years and you will see far cattier comments about outfits, music, hair, weight, sexuality, you name it. Many skaters in the past have talked about reading threads at this very site and being affected by it. I don't think I had ever even heard the word "snark" before I began posting and reading this site. I lurve FSU and TSL but to come to this very board and be shocked and appalled at harsh critiques is just :lol:
    kwanette and (deleted member) like this.
  32. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    I guess some people think that a message board and a duo trying to have some journalistic credibility are different. Also, since FSU is pretty heterogeneous, the people complaining about TSL may also be the same ones appalled by some of the PBP threads and cattiness on FSU (even if they don't say it). But someone did bring up a good point about Phil Hersh doing the same thing, but he's very much maligned here too. However, he's had a background in journalism and supposedly professionalism before he got "comfortable." Plus, it helps him that he's one of the only people left who even care to cover figure skating on a regular basis. Some say USFS should take advantage of TSL because of this, but maybe it's telling that the USFS isn't even that desperate . . . yet.
  33. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,370
    Phil Hersh gets in because his newspaper, with its reputation and readership, qualifies for a credential. Were TSL part of a major newspaper -- were Kirk reporting for the LA Times -- it would be a different matter, just as Michael Buckley got into US Nats because Icenetwork sent him.
  34. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,612
    How one equates a message board open to all posters (most are anonymous) and cattiness by two people who aspire to be professional media journalists beats me.

    What I find sort of amazing, and this does not relate just to the poster above, is that people find this cattiness and nastiness (and Aunt Joyce is notable for being nasty not just to the skaters but to their families and non-skaters too) is that some people can never get enough of it as entertainment. From time to time we all laugh (even if we're not proud of ourselves for doing so) at someone else's expense (and someone does pay for it - we just may not know how) and while it does happen, it's not admirable (we tell our children not to do it - or at least I did). But a steady diet of it in print or on line? I'll never get that.

    These are young athletes, working hard and doing their best - we don't have to say they were brilliant when they weren't or that a costume is wonderful when it isn't but there are fair and respectful ways to critique and then there's "I want to be unnecessarily personal and nasty to someone else just to inflate my own sense of myself." One can comment with intelligence and wit on skating, performance and results without that approach. I give TSL the benefit of the doubt and think that they have the skills to take their commentary to a higher level.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  35. BittyBug

    BittyBug Quadless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,094
    I have enjoyed many of the TSL segments and appreciate the significant effort that Jenny and Dave are making to deliver their many interviews, so I'd love to see them succeed in their venture. I do not think their coverage of the SLC event furthered that goal, however. In fact, I only watched their day 1 recap and decided not to watch any more not so much because of what they said, but how they said it. Maybe their adrenalin was overflowing from the excitement of reporting from their first competition, but they were far too frenetic to be watchable. They talked over each other, they repeated phrases multiple times ("So here's the thing," "So here's the thing," "So here's the thing") and their on camera mannerisms were excessively frantic (Jenny's shimmying into the camera in particular does not create a professional image). Maybe their delivery improved as the event went on, but that first clip was enough of a turn off that I did not return to find out if it did. Rather than appear as professional commentary, my impression of the clip was as if a spy cam had dropped in on a hen party.

    Jenny and Dave are both capable of delivering intelligent and insightful commentary, as proven in some of their interviews and other segments, and they don't have to be temper everything they say to the point of sounding like a USFSA press release :yawn: - they could still pepper their commentary with some witty snarks. But right now everything is just too OTT with the result being them coming off as a pair of catty teenagers chatting, and that doesn't particularly appeal to me as a would be viewer.
    carolina and (deleted member) like this.
  36. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    2,779
    The definition of journalism has changed quite a bit since Al Gore invented this thing called the internet. The conversations that Jenny and Dave are having are right in line with the type of discussions that happen here. The only difference, as you pointed out, is that they have the guts to do it without the shield of an anonymous internet handle. Do we know that their intentions are to become full fledged journalists in the tradition of Hersh and Brennan? I don't think their intentions have been clarified, but if we've been given any hints it seems to me that they are trying to steer clear of what's been done before, as they consider current media coverage to be deficient. What I love most about TSL is that they cover ALL facets of skating. From the silliest choreographic details right down to in-depth technical analysis. I snuck into the press box at Worlds in 2009 and was alarmed at all of the so-called figure skating journalists who knew nothing about what they were covering and had to ask each other silly questions like, "Which one is Yuna and which one is Mao?" When it comes to real information about the sport, I've learned more on this board than I have from reading any article from a professional publication, and skating journalists readily admit that they visit this board for current information. All I'm saying is, when you put information online, it can become source material (credible or not). So perhaps the distinction between what TSL does and what we do here is not so great.
  37. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,484
    But FSU does not present itself as journalism. It's very clearly labeled as a discussion board. Yes, there is news on it, but it is not positioned as a news source. No matter how the definition of journalism has evolved since the Interwebz, FSU is not trying to do what TSL is trying to do. TSL wants to be considered journalism, even if it's a TMZ tye of journalism, and so the basis of comparison for what it does should be what other journalism outlets are doing.
  38. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    2,779
    As I said in my previous post, I don't recall Jenny or Dave stating flat out that journalism is their priority. The only clear goals I have heard them repeatedly state is that they would like to give a platform for skaters to speak honestly and that they would like to promote discussion of any kind about skating. The latter half of that is precisely what FSU seeks to do. Hasn't it been said in this thread that FSU has applied for press passes? Again, the lines aren't so clear.

    In any case, whether the motives be journalistic or not, there is some irony in criticizing others who criticize skaters on a board that is filled with skater critiques.
  39. Willowway

    Willowway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,612
    I don't want to get into a protracted argument with you about your argument however...

    Just because a person posts critiques of skaters doesn't mean that person has disqualified themselves from criticizing the tone and personal content of other critiques. All criticism is not the same nor equal - personal cuts, jabs, insults, snideness, etc. are one kind of criticism and not the best kind.

    If your opinion is that all criticism equates with personal insults then you might look at the best of the best (which agreed, is way beyond what anyone in skating is doing or perhaps has ever done) by accessing some of the ballet reviews Arlene Croce wrote years ago for The New Yorker. She taught me a lot about criticism of the arts (and I'll expand that to include skating) by demonstrating that any review, however much she didn't like something, could be direct, separate the artist as person from the individual work, never be gratuitously nasty or nasty at all, and best of all, teach the reader more than he/she/I knew before reading the review. Really quite extraordinary.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  40. analia

    analia Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    TSL is too self-centered for my liking (he looks really awkward all the time), but I've appreciated aunt joyce's work over the years. He was really the Stephen Colbert of the gym/skating world, so to speak, meaning that I find him a great comedian. Too bad he has gone all serious with TSL and got stuck in the middle. Dave has a nervous personality, is totally into trying boorishly too hard and hasn't got a PC sense, all the things I find tremendously amusing about him.

    I did hear it's quite easy to buy him off. Just give him a media pass and an interview already. He'll say the nicest thing about you. He can't help it. I'm talking to you Gracie.