Japan Federation announced the standard for selecting Japan representative of Sochi

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Akira Andrea, Jun 19, 2013.

  1. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea New Member

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    This is an article in "Mainichi Shimbun" in Japan.
    Translating to English from Japanese.

    Japan Skating Federation announced the standard for selecting the representative of Sochi Olympics.
    June 19th, 2013

    In June 19th, Japan skating Federation announced the standard for selecting the Japan representative of Figure Skating, Speed Skating and Short Track of Sochi Olympics.

    The Figure Skating:
    Among the each three entries of men and ladies which Japan had already earned, the first entry is fixed on the winner of Japan Nationals of December of this year.
    The second entry is selected among the players who are the second place of Japan Nationals, the third place of Japan Nationals and the highest place of Japanese who is upper than third place in the Grand Prix final of December.
    The third entry is selected among the player who leaked out from the 2nd selection, the upper three Japanese of world standing in the time of the end of Japan Nationals and the upper three Japanese of ISU season best score.

    Speed Skating:
    omission.
    Short Track:
    omission.

    As for figure skating, Japan Skating Federation decided to implement the training camp of September and the training camp of February just before Olympics, in the Armenia where the user-friendliness of the traffic to Sochi is good and the environment resembles a real venue.

    The article:
    Japan Skating Federation announced the standard for selecting the representative of Sochi Olympics.
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20130619-00000079-mai-spo
  2. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    It would be possible to be a surprise Nationals silver medalist and be passed over for the second and third spots.

    The selection process favors those with two GP spots in the fall, since they provide the bulk of WS points for the season through Japanese Nationals and give the skaters a chance to qualify for GPF and win gold or silver there, and, if this means the ISU SB score for 2013-14, a chance to qualify that way.

    It looks like the Japanese Fed has found a way to create a selection pool of their top international competitors from the Fall, with some past results factored into the GP selections and WS, but without using a strict points formula to obligate them to choose anyone but an age-eligible national champion.
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  4. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    so miki should better win nationals ;)
  5. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea New Member

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    Translating to English from Japanese as for the said part in the JSF official document.

    3. The selecting method of the representative of Olympics
    ( Men and Ladies single have 3 entries each. The pair and the ice dance may have a maximum of 1 entry with the result of the preliminary competition).

    The selection of Men and Ladies single
    In the time of the ending of Japan Nationals, it is decided by the following selecting method from among the Olympic participation qualifier and it is recommended to the figure skating committee.
    ① As for the 1st entry, it selects the winner of Japan Nationals.
    ② The 2nd entry selects from among the 2nd place of Japan Nationals, the 3rd place of Japan Nationals and the highest rank Japanese on the podium of the Grand Prix final.
    ③ The 3rd entry selects from among the players who leaked out from the selection of ②, the upper three Japanese in the world standing at the time of the ending of Japan nationals and the upper three Japanese of ISU season best score.

    The selection of the pair and the ice dance
    It selects from among the winner of Japan Nationals, the highest rank Japanese in the world standing and the highest rank Japanese in the season best score, at the time of the ending of Japan Nationals.

    ※ The Olympic participation qualifier
    ・ The one who satisfies the age that the Olympics can be participated in.
    ・ The one who wins a minimum point for the Olympic participation of the current year which ISU specifies by the time of the Japan Nationals.
    ・ The one who participates in the Japan Nationals which is the final selection meeting.

    4. The selecting method of the player of the Olympics team competition.

    The selection of Men and Ladies single.
    According to the following standard, it selects a skater of short program and a skater of free skating for the Olympic team competition from among the single player who was selected as the Olympics representative.

    ・The skater of short program of Olympic team competition.
    The highest rank person of the short program of ISU season best score at the time of the ending of Japan Nationals.
    ・The skater of free skating of Olympic team competition.
    The highest rank person of the free skating of ISU season best score at the time of the ending of Japan Nationals.

    But, if the highest rank person of the short program and the highest rank person of the free skating is an identical player, as for ISU season best score, the skater of free skating shall be the player of the second highest mark of ISU season best score.

    The selection of the pair and the ice dance.
    The representative of the individual competition is selected just as it is.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
  6. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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    ^Thanks Akira for the translation.
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Among the men, there could be six Japanese men in contention for the three spots after Japanese Nationals: Takahashi, Hanyu, Machida, Mura, Oda, and Kozuka, all based on a combination of WS, 2013-14 GP results, and Japanese Nationals, because there's no pre-established cumulative point value based on scores and/or placements.
  8. N_Halifax

    N_Halifax Active Member

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    I actually think their system is quite fair. It takes into account that the favourites may have an off day as well. With the depth of Japan's senior fields, it can and has happened in the past that big name skaters have finished off the podium and still gone on to compete in major events. The men's competition in particular is going to be a TOUGH one.
  9. rosewood

    rosewood plants lover

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    The lady's competition will be tough, too. There could be five for three spots: Mao, Kanako, Akiko, Satoko, and Miki, as JSF made a path for Ando. Mao and Kanako might get the spots, IMO, and the third spot will go to Akiko, Miki, or Satoko? I'm thrilled for Japan Nats.
  10. Akira Andrea

    Akira Andrea New Member

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    This is an article in “Sports Nippon” in Japan.
    Translating to English from Japanese.

    As for the selection of the Olympics representative, the player must go out of selection if having been in trouble, there isn't any safety net.
    June 20th, 2013

    The biggest enemy to the dream stage is trouble. Japan Skating Federation opened a board of directors in the Tokyo Metropolitan area and released the selecting method of the representative for Sochi Olympics etc.

    (Translator's note: As for the detail of the selecting method, I omitted it because it overlaps with the above-posted article.)

    In case of Vancouver Olympics, there was "the relief plan", which was saying, "The player is sometimes added to the selection object even if the player who has results within 6th of the Worlds in the past doesn't meet a condition in the injury and so on", but this time, there is not any safety net.
    Ito the chairperson of figure skating department explained that the player isn't in time for Olympics if suffering the injury so as to be not able to participate to Japan Nationals.
    For Asada Mao (22, Chukyo University) who is expressing the retirement from eligible skater after the ending of next season, too, it becomes important to keep a good condition.

    The article:
    As for the selection of the Olympics representative, the player must go out of selection if having been in trouble, there isn't any safety net.
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20130620-00000034-spnannex-spo
  11. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    That's a very cool way to determine the Team Event participants. If Japan is in the final, they will have different singles skaters skating the FS.
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Grand Prix Final men's qualifiers:
    2 Tatsuki Machida - #7 in ISU World Standings before the GPF
    3 Yuzuru Hanyu - #1 in WS
    7 Nobunari Oda - #17 in WS
    [WD from GPF: Daisuke Takahashi - #3 in WS]

    Takahito Mura - #9 in WS
    Takahiko Kozuka - #15 in WS

    ISU Season Bests Total Scores 2013/2014 (before GP Final)
    2 268.31 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN ISU GP NHK Trophy 2013 09.11.2013
    3 265.38 Tatsuki MACHIDA JPN ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2013 19.10.2013
    4 263.59 Yuzuru HANYU JPN ISU GP Trophee Bompard 2013 16.11.2013
    5 262.98 Nobunari ODA JPN Nebelhorn Trophy 2013 28.09.2013
    12 230.95 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2013 19.10.2013
    14 227.22 Takahito MURA JPN ISU GP NHK Trophy 2013 09.11.2013
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  13. watchthis!!

    watchthis!! Active Member

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    :respec:
  14. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Even with Takahashi withdrawing from GPF, his status as the second highest-ranked Japanese man in WS is safe, since the most incremental points Machida can gain is 400 if he wins GPF, and he's 645 points behind Takahashi. (Theoretically, he can be bumped to fourth at GPF in ISU SB standings.) Machida is safely in third in WS points over Oda, who can gain a maximum of 476 by winning GPF, and even were Machida to withdraw and Oda to win another Senior B before Japanese Nats (hypothetically), Oda still wouldn't catch Machida. He's similarly safe from Mura overtaking him with two (hypothetical) Senior B wins.

    For spot 3, top three WS will remain Hanyu, Takahashi, and Machida, regardless of what happens at or outside GPF. The top three SB scores will be between Takahashi, Hanyu, Machida, and Oda. 5.33 points separate them before GPF.

    For the TE, the top SP scores this year for Japanese Men are:
    • 95.55-Takahashi (NHK)
    • 95.37-Hanyu (TEB)
    • 91.18-Machida (SA)
    • 87.34-Oda (Nebelhorn)

    For the FS:
    175.64-Oda (Nebelhorn)
    174.20-Machida (SA)
    172.76-Takahashi (NHK)
    168.22-Hanyu (TEB)​

    For Ladies, WS currently are:
    Suzuki (3533)
    Asada (3501) -- the minimum she can get at GPF is 472 if she finishes and all six Ladies skate.
    Murakami (2547)
    Imai (1824)
    Miyahara (1776)​

    The SB scores are:
    207.59-Asada (NHK)
    193.75-Suzuki (SC)
    170.21-Miyahara (NHK)
    165.95-Murkahami (CoC)​

    For the TE, the Top SP scores are:
    73.18-Asada (SA)
    66.03-Suzuki (NHK)
    59.79-Ando (Nebelhorn)
    58.39-Miyahara (NHK)​

    The Top FS scores are:
    136.33-Asada (NHK)
    127.99-Suzuki (SC)
    113.22-Murakami (RC)
    111.82-Miyahara (NHK)​

    Of course, the FS will be moot if Japan doesn't make it to the finals.
  15. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

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    I have a question. Please forgive me if this has been asked and answered in another thread. Would there be a chance that Takahashi would be named to the team even if he couldn't compete at Japanese nationals due to injury?
  16. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I would think so. He is the big male figure skating star in Japan. If he is fit enough, a way will be found to get him on the team to skate in Sochi.
  17. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I think many of us already assumed Daisuke and Hanyu to be in the team. Third place will be fought between Machida and Oda.
  18. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    It's built into the selection process for any skater in the Top 3 WS and Top 3 SB to be chosen for the third spot, regardless of how the skater places at Nationals or if s/he skates.
  19. jettasian

    jettasian New Member

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    Yup. All these so-called placements and points are...pointless. Dai and Hanyu are guaranteed, regardless. The rest will fight for one spot.
  20. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Kozuka :( His only hope is winning Japanese Nationals
  21. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Kozu is one of my other favourites. So far, it doesn't look good for him this season.:(

    Indeed. Dai is a Rock Star in Japan and Mao is the Rock Princess. I cannot imagine the Japanese Fed. not to include these two big names. It's understandable.
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  22. fscric

    fscric Active Member

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    Kozuka has never got the love from JSF, even after he won the National Champion and being the World Silver Medalist, I can't see him winning this National even if somehow skated lights out, unless everybody else bombs big time. His skating career doesn't bode well at all.
  23. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

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    yes, v. sad indeed. but then again, he has already achieved quite a bit - been to the olympics, won a silver medal at worlds, and been the national champion.

    i hope he can stick around for a few more years after sochi, make the world team again (sorry I am sounding as though it's a done deal and that he certainly won't make it to the team this year), and win another world medal.

    i really like his short programme this year, but the Saint-saens, not so much :(
  24. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    I like that they have a clear scenario for the selection but Kozuka's chances are not very good :fragile:, I hope for a miracle now.
  25. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    Kozuka has had ill-timed injuries, but also made - IMO - a bad choice of LP this year too :(
  26. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree. The US would benefit from a system like this.
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Has he ever had a single program, which wasn't generic? He's had years to try to do something about his presentation. What a waste of exceptional basic skating. :/
  28. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I didn't think Take Five was generic, and I loved his Rota Romeo and Juliet. Also his Exodus SP and his Sounds of Silence EX.

    I don't love this year's FS, though, but I'd be happy watching him skate in circles.
  29. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I find Kozuka overrated. I'd be happy with the team being Takahashi, Hanyu and Oda. Or just Takahashi even. :shuffle:
  30. bek

    bek Guest

    Yes, but I found Dai's win at NHK a bit unconvincing. A lot of that huge score was PCS. The only way someone's going to beat Chan is by out jumping him, and I'm not convinced Dai's jumps are there to do so.

    Hanyu also to be frank hasn't been skating all that well.

    To be honest of all the Japanese men, Machida's been skating the best and the most consistent. I actually could see him, taking advantage of Chan mistakes and out jumping him.

    I honestly get Davydova overtones here. Yelena Davdova was a Soviet gymnast who was left of Olympic and world teams for the Soviet Union but finally made the Moscow team. The USSR squad was just so deep. She was performing extremely well in 1980 and circumstances had it where she made the Olympic team. Other bigger name stars made mistakes at that Olympics, and Dayvdova went on to become AA champion.

    Its never happened in skating, but a part of me wonders if maybe this one could happen. If Patrick skates like he did at 2013 worlds, I can't see the judges giving it to him. And Machida hasn't been just skating the best of all the Japanese men, he's skating the best of anyone else....The Japanese men are such a deep squad that really only Patrick is better than their top 5/6 when their top 5/6 skate clean....

    I think it would be very foolish for the Japanese fed not to take heavy into account how they are skating this season.

    Oda's been skating fairly well too, although its Oda.

    What happens if Machida places top two at GPF ahead of Oda and Hanyu, and then Oda wins Japanese Nationals. I think it would be rather foolish for the Japanese fed not to take into account how all three have been skating this season.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2013
  31. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    I wish they had announced these rules at the beginning of the year, rather than now...
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    The criteria document was published on the JSF site on June 19, 2013 (refer back to the posts at the beginning of this thread). I bumped up this thread yesterday in response to a question about Takahashi's WD in the GPF forum in Kiss and Cry.
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  33. rosewood

    rosewood plants lover

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    Domshabfan, they announced this in June, even before Miki announced her comeback. See the first post. ;)
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  34. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Same here. Kozuka's LP this year does nothing for me. But his Take Five was exceptional.
    Kozuka skates lovely exhibitions, so he is able to reach out to the audience. I don't understand why his team chooses always- somber- classical- LPs.

    I think the Japanese selection is well spelled-out and wise. It lacks the element of nail- biting excitement that US Nationals bring, but it rewards consistent excellence.
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  35. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    I wasted all my :drama:, why JSF, why?
  36. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    The way Kozuka's skated this season it's hard to imagine top 3 at Japanese Nats anyway. :(

    What are Mura's chances now though? Does he have a senior B scheduled where he could increase his ISU SB score?
  37. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Kozuka's SB is over 30 points behind the top Japanese Men's SB, and barring miracles, 4C's is most likely the end of the season, and that's only if the Japanese Fed doesn't send their Olympic Team to Taipei.

    Mura is over 500 points behind Machida, making it mathematically impossible to catch Machida (third Japanese Man in WS currently) even had Mura no Senior B points and weee to skate and win two between now and Japanese Nationals, and were Machida to WD from GPF.

    A senior B win would earn 250 points, and even if he did and won a second Senior B before Japanese Nationals, he'd only get an addition 25 WS points, since only points from up to two Senior B's count, and he already has 225 for a second place finish this year and a second win would increase that incrementally by 250-225, or 25 points only.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  38. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    this would secure his place; he could have hope with 2nd and 3rd place at nationals, too, regarding the rules.
    but i agree and think it will be hard for him, as a 2nd place finisher with a great performance, maybe, but 3rd, i don't think there is a chance for him;

    so maybe he should join mikis club and hope for a big upset at nationals :D
  39. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    He has also suffered from more impactful injuries than the others during the past 2 seasons. Last year in particular, he competed with a foot injury that was particularly problematic at Japan Nationals.
  40. rosewood

    rosewood plants lover

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    Hochi article:
    my rough translation

    Kanako was expecting the adjustment but gave a disappointing performance

    Aichi Figure Skating Competition was held on December 1st at Nagoya Gaishi Plaza. Skaters showed only their short programs at this competition. Kanako Murakami(Chukyo University) received disappointing 53.53 points. "Having negative image with my short program, I don't know what to do from now on," said Murakami with her face clouded.

    She's worked on the major change of her jump contents since ISU Grand Prix Cup of Russia where she placed 7th. She put her hands down on her first jump of the triple-triple cascade and therefor failed in going for the second jump. "Being cautious about(the triple-triple cascade in) the second half, I got nervous," she looked back the reason of the mistake.

    Her coach Yamada said, "She just can't put something together. We have to discuss whether we go on with this music or not," she indicated the possibilities of changing the music.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013