Jackie Kennedy Special on ABC

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Rex, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,887
    Is anyone watching? These are the tapes she made that were not supposed to be released until after her death.

    Wow. She didn't like the Eisenhowers or Nixons. And she admitted to using speed!
     
  2. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    9,135
    I'm watching
     
  3. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,887
    She had a distinctive voice.
     
  4. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,887
    Can't say I appreciate her comments about MLK.
     
  5. Lynn226

    Lynn226 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,292
    I missed it. What did she say?
     
  6. falling_dance

    falling_dance Bravo, Patrick.

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    23,398
    Neither can I.

    The word I heard was "tricky".


    I wonder about the account of the tour of the White House given Jackie Kennedy just a few days after the Caesarean delivery of her son, in which the promised wheelchair was nowhere in sight and she was never offered a chance to sit down. Was that petty malice on Mamie Eisenhower's part, or just a pretty lamentable oversight?
     
  7. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    18,917
    She seemed to think it was the former.
     
  8. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    17,727
    Not watching the show, but newspapers today were reporting she also called MLK "a phony" and "terrible."

    Was there anybody she actually DID like, aside from her husband and children?
     
  9. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,887
    I thought so...I was making dinner and I thought she said "creepy", but "tricky" sounds more like it.
    I wonder too....Mamie may have been stressed about leaving.

    I admire Jackie, but she was no saint. She was elitist and greedy.
     
  10. falling_dance

    falling_dance Bravo, Patrick.

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    23,398
    "I wouldn't be surprised if they [women like Clare Boothe Luce, who were, in the Kennedys' view, over-concerned with power] were lesbians."

    Charming...charming.
     
  11. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,887
    ^^I know, right?
    She sounds like an enabler.
     
  12. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    8,742
    I have to agree with Caroline that a lot of what she said had to do with the era, and that as her mother aged, she became much more liberal, supportive of women. I recently read "Jackie as Editor" by Greg Lawrence and "Reading Jackie" by William Kuhn and she comes off much more intellectual and human in these than in these tapes from the 60s.
     
  13. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,482
    I was watching: Did I hear correctly that she said she loathed the French? I about fell off of my chair. I always believed the opposite.
     
  14. FiveRinger

    FiveRinger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,892
    I wasn't going to watch this but now I am wildly curious. Is this going to air again or be available online?

    This sounds terrible, but I wouldn't want videos of me saying so many questionable things about people out in the universe. I'd pray everyday that no one found them 100 years after I died based on what I'm reading here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  15. Allskate

    Allskate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,254
    I watched just part of this. Maybe it's just because they took a very small percdentage of the tapes to play on tv, but the impression the show seemed to give was that she was quite catty and crititical, though I suppose she wasn't in the best of moods at the time she did the tapes, not that long after JFK's death. I respect Caroline for releasing the tapes in their entirety because it must have been tempting to sanitize them. I'm sure some things are going to be taken out of context or simply don't include all the context. I may end up reading the book. That clip they played about MLK was only about two seconds long and I ended up wondering what it was about MLK that she found tricky. Politically tricky? Personally tricky? Was there a particular incident JFK (or RFK) had with him?

    Also, the part that I saw, she seemed to be saying that she liked the French and the French loved her. But, a lot of Americans didn't seem to like the fact that she spoke French and other languages. But, maybe I missed the part where she said she loathed the French. Or maybe that was just a reference to De Gaulle.

    ETA: Some of the articles on the tapes provide a little more context to the comment about MLK:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14909983

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation...-kennedy-told-jfk-i-want-to-die-with-you.html

    Caroline thinks it was Hoover who was feeding Jacqueline negative information about MLK. She had been told that he was insulting and drunk at JFK's funeral and that he was arranging an orgy on the eve of the Freedom March. Given the later rumors about JFK's philandering, it's kind of ironic that she didn't like MLK's alleged philandering, though I guess it's a bit different for a minister.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  16. danceronice

    danceronice Corgi Wrangler

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,476
    While I'm sure MLK was no saint, Hoover DID get very weird about him. And in fairness Jackie was not always the brightest bulb.

    But really, I find this all much more believable than the hypersanitized St. Jackie the Kennedy machine created. I can hardly blame her for the speed, though, they had some doctors who, well, typical for the period, treated EVERYTHING with drugs. Even the Manchester book, which, Kennedy complaints aside (some people are never happy) was COMPLETE whitewash propaganda, mentioned an awful lot of needles for stress, to sleep, to wake up. Obviously right after the shooting that's one thing but no one seemed to think it was odd or OTT.

    I've heard the Mamie Eisenhower/wheelchair story. The White House (eg Eisenhower) response is that it was waiting out of sight, but Jackie never asked for it. So it was more likely a case of Mamie didn't think is was polite to overtly offer, Jackie didn't think it was polite to ask. As for the Nixons, Jackie was a snob so I can see her disliking them, but it's funny as contrary to modern myth JFK and Richard Nixon didn't hate each other and were on good terms before 1960 and cordial ones after. They'd been in Congress together and weren't violent enemies. If anything they probably got on better than JFK and LBJ, who was bitter a long time about losing the nomination and who really just was a completely alien personality to type to JFK. They did NOT 'get' each other at all.
     
  17. soxxy

    soxxy Guest

    I was surprised, as well. I think she said something like 'they' always put or think of themselves first.

    My understanding was President Kennedy could get impatient with her regarding "everything" needing to be French (furnishings, foods, etc.)

    I was also surprised about the quality and tone of her voice. Did she adapt a bit of the Kennedy accent?

    I believed Caroline when she said her mother's attitude changed toward a number of things as she grew older and times changed. Caroline appeared to be amused at times, like she was surprised her mother had said those things.

    Fascinating show.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2011
  18. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    17,727
    I've heard that about Hoover too. That would explain a lot -- though she must have been pretty gullible!

    EVERYTHING is okay when a Kennedy does it. :p Funny how her husband the philanderer was a hero, while MLK the alleged philanderer was a phony.

    I know, I like to rag on the Kennedys a lot, but that attitude that they were just a little bit better than the common herd (which is still rather widespread in some quarters) is pretty hilarious, especially when their behavior could be so awful. And it sounds like Jackie had that attitude in spades.
     
  19. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    14,195
    Jackie was a woman of her time, place, class and position.
    Like many woman, she had a idealized view of love and marriage and was expected to "turn a blind eye" to her husband's "dalliances"; as long as they did not become "public".

    Indeed, to her credit, she adapted; and became a role model for many women.

    I'm looking forward to reading the book; and finding out more about the tapes "in context"
     
  20. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,908
    ITA. It's easy for people with 2011 sensibilities and PC to criticize what Jackie said on the tape, but you have to remember that it was in the 60s, women were expected only to be a wife and a mother, and Jackie probably lived in a coccoon during the White House years where her world was what fed to her by her hustand and his staff.
     
  21. Jenny

    Jenny From the Bloc

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    17,512
    To a point. She was educated, no? And well traveled? There were plenty of women in her time and before who held a broader view then and now.
     
  22. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Messages:
    18,917
    Absolutely. But she still lived in a rarefied world that I think is hard for most of us to imagine. Still going on now.
     
  23. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    14,195
    Yes, she was educated and well-traveled.

    However, JBK's family was conservative and Republican. Her father lost most of his money in the 1929 "crash" and aftermath.
    He "blamed" Joseph Kennedy, who was head of the Securities and Exchange Commission for his plight. The family fell apart, thereafter.

    Jackie lived with her mother after she remarried. Divorce and remarriage were not "encouraged" at the time.
    Undoubtedly, all of this colored her perspective, opinions and "world view".
     
  24. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,482
    I agree that we have to look at the time and place and that opinions do change with age. Whatever her faults I do believe she was a great example to the nation when we needed her most. I could not have watched my husband murdered and then have to share his loss and my grief with everyone. Too much. And she said a few times in those tapes that she would not want to live without Jack. And Mamie---jeez it is not "your house" and from what I've read she was not the nicest person. No wonder Ike fell in love with Kay.