# It is hypothetically possible to score over 50 points in a single element

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by RFOS, May 4, 2013.

1. ### RFOSWell-Known Member

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4A+4Lz+4Lz could hypothetically be executed according to the definition of a jump combination, since no change of foot or edge would be required between the jumps (just a change of direction for the middle quad lutz ). OK, so even doing that combination with singles would be hard enough (and really cool) so it's not likely to happen ever but would be legal under the current rules in the Junior and Senior Men and Ladies Free Skate.

In the current code, the base value for the combination is:
4A+4Lz+4Lz = 15.0+13.6+13.6 = 42.2

If done in the second half, this gets multiplied by 1.1 before applying the GOE:
42.2 * 1.1 = 46.42

The GOE addition to the base value for a +3 GOE for a jump element containing a quad axel is 3.6 (the most of any singles jump or element). So if the combination got all +3 GOEs (or all counting judges gave it a +3), then the final score for the element would be 46.42+3.6 = 50.02.

I'm in the process of doing more nerdy calculations also.

2. ### caseyedwardsWell-Known Member

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Something for max Aaron to work on

3. ### briancoogaertWell-Known Member

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Well, if we are on hypothetical things, I guess a 10Axel would score more than 50.

4. ### RFOSWell-Known Member

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A 10 Axel isn't in the scale of values so the poor wuzrobbed skater who did it this season wouldn't get any points.

5. ### Macassar88Well-Known Member

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If someone ever does that I'll die of shock

6. ### BigB08822Well-Known Member

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That combination could TOTALLY be possible...if we have to abandon earth in the future and move to a planet with far less of a gravitational effect. Totally...possible..

7. ### TripleWallieMember

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Or with anti-gravity skating boots...

8. ### miffyWell-Known Member

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What has been the actual highest ever score for a single element so far?

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My thoughts exactly .

And also, How about getting 30 points first, Then start thinking of 50

10. ### RFOSWell-Known Member

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Maximum possible scores based on the current rules and SOV:

Senior Men SP:
Hypothetical: All level 4 spins and steps, plus 4A+3Lz, 4Lz, 3A (all in the 2nd half) gives 61.01 base value, 77.21 TES with all +3 GOEs, for 127.21 total with a perfect 50.00 for PCS.

Using only jump elements that have actually been completed in competition (by men): Change combo to 4S+3T, rest stays the same. Base value 53.17, 69.57 TES with all +3 GOEs, 119.57 total with perfect PCS.

Hypothetical: All level 4 spins and steps, plus 3Lz+3Lz, 3F, 3A (all in the 2nd half) gives 41.68 base value, 55.48 TES with all +3 GOEs, for 95.48 total with a perfect 40.00 for PCS.

Using only jump elements that have actually been completed in competition (by ladies): Change 3Lz+3Lz to 3Lz+3Lo. 40.69 base value, 54.49 TES with all +3 GOEs, 94.49 total with perfect PCS.

Senior Pairs SP (with 2012-2013 lift, death spiral, and spin requirements):
Hypothetical: All level 4 elements, including triple twist, plus 3ATh and 3A (no 2nd half bonus for Pairs SP) gives 38.10 base value and 53.40 TES with all +3 GOEs, for 93.40 total with a perfect 40.00 for PCS.

Using only jump elements that have actually been completed in competition (by pairs): Change sbs 3A to 3Lz. 35.60 base value, 50.00 TES with all +3 GOEs, 90.00 total with perfect PCS.

Last edited: May 6, 2013
11. ### RFOSWell-Known Member

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Senior Men FS:
Hypothetical:

All level 4 elements (except choreo sequence), maxing out spins, with the following jump elements all in the 2nd half
4A, 4A+4Lz+3Lo, 4F, 4S+3Lz, 3A, 4Lo, 3F+4Lz, 4T. Base value 156.02, TES 189.92 with all +3 GOEs, 289.92 total with perfect PCS.

I believe the following has the highest content where each jump element has actually been completed without violating the Zayak rule (did Mroz ever do the 4Lz in combination?):
4Lz, 4S+2T, 4S, 4T, 4T+3T+3Lo, 3A+3Lo, 3Lz, 3F (all in 2nd half). Base value 112.13, TES 146.03 with all +3 GOEs, 246.03 total with perfect PCS.

Hypothetical: Same as the men except take out the solo triple axel because they only have 7 jump elements 146.67 base value, 177.57 TES with all +3 GOEs, 257.57 total with perfect PCS.

Based on content that individually has been actually by ladies, I think this is the highest:
4S, 3A+2T, 3A, 3Lz+3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+3T+2Lo, 3S. 83.53 base value, 114.43 TES with all +3 GOEs, 194.43 total with perfect PCS.

Last edited: May 6, 2013
12. ### alijActive Member

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Am I going mad surely a conventionally rotated 4A would land on RBO whereas a 4L would take off an LBO so there would need to be a change of foot? Or are we talking someone who could rotate quads both ways?

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Highest scoring element ?

Probably someone's 4-3-3

I remember Van der perren having one worth 19 points,
How bout reynolds ?

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Yes.

15. ### leafygreensWell-Known Member

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You could do a mazurka and it becomes a SEQ.

Why not do a 5S-4T-4T? It would be so much easier.

16. ### alijActive Member

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Now that would be impressive!

17. ### RFOSWell-Known Member

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A 5S isn't in the scale of values.

18. ### RochelleActive Member

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With the contents of this post... I dub it officially the off season!

19. ### RochelleActive Member

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To compare, how about the max. possible score for a bit more realistic but still exceptionally difficult:

Ladies SP: 3 AX, 3 LZ-3T, 3F + level 4 steps + level 4 spins

Mens SP: 3 AX, 4T-3T, 4S + level 4 steps + level 4 spins

20. ### briancoogaertWell-Known Member

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And even more difficult for Ladies, but realistic :
Ladies SP : 3Ax, 3F-3Loop, 3Lz + level 4 steps + level 4 spins.

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They could try it ...

Kim would still get better scores

22. ### briancoogaertWell-Known Member

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LOL, that's probably why YuNa Kim won the SP at Worlds, just for 3 points, against someone who fell on a 3T/3T combo.

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Yeahh...... That's not happening again

24. ### essence_of_soyWell-Known Member

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Calculating how many days spent in a chiropractor's office multiplied by the skater's yearly health insurance should be a more accurate sum of their total points for even attempting such a crazy jump sequence.

25. ### museksk8rHolding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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Oh please, Kostner was rewarded for having the better short program and for performing the hell out of it, despite the mistake! In comparison, Kim's SP was a big snore and her performance of it was wooden. Jumps/falls are not the only factors of a program that are judged.

26. ### mtviolinNew Member

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How does a combination with 3Lz as second jump work?

27. ### RFOSWell-Known Member

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The 2nd lutz would have to be in the opposite direction as the first jump. Here is a video example with singles: