ISU posts 2011 World Team Trophy Announcement

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Visaliakid, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Visaliakid

    Visaliakid Well-Known Member

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    2011 ISU World Team Trophy announcement

    The second edition of the ISU World Team Trophy has been allotted by the ISU Council to the Japan Skating Federation to be held in Japan on April 14-17, 2011 in Yokohama.

    2011 ISU World Team Trophy (complete) announcement can be downloaded in .pdf format to your computer @

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=2397
     
  2. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Yaaaaaaaayyyyy!!!

    No more post-worlds depression!!!! :p
     
  3. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Another major ISU event goes to Asia? Hmmm....
     
  4. Mathman

    Mathman Active Member

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    ^ This is only the second one of these (the first being in 2009). The two were announced together in 2008 with both being scheduled for Japan, with a hint that the ISU would be pleased to make this a permanent bi-annual championship if there was sufficient interest.

    I believe that the expenses, including generous cash prizes for the skaters, are 100% underwritten by the big corporate sponsors and television networks in Japan. My impression is that the ISU will be glad to continue holding this championship every two years in Japan, as long as the money is there... or anywhere else if another country is willing to put up the money.

    If the ISU's plan of awarding team medals at the Olympics goes through, it seems like this would be a natural type of event to run.
     
  5. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    Where can I find the team points earned by now, I mean, have I to do the sum of the best two members of ladies and men plus the best dance and pairs team of each nation or can I found this already done somewhere?
     
  6. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Happy Russian Hunger Games!

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    The announcement says:
    I might be able to put together a list of the standings after the first group of events (GP results). Or someone else could volunteer ;)
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    I felt like doing a quick calculation for kicks. :shuffle: Will the post my results in a sec...
     
  8. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    It's a great way for the Americans, Canadians, and Russians to win extra money. Japan is always going to have that deficit from dance, while China is going to suffer in anything not pairs. The US, Russians, and Canadians consistently have strong overall teams. (Yes, I know that the Japanese won bronze last time, but the Russians are MUCH stronger now.)
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    OK, here's what I came up with through the GP Final (note: ISU doesn't include JGP Final for calculation purposes) -- feel free to correct me if you spot any errors.

    Top 6 countries at this time are:

    JPN
    Oda 720 (GPF 2nd)
    Kozuka 648 (GPF 3rd)
    Murakami 648 (GPF 3rd)
    Suzuki 583 (GPF 4th)
    Takahashi/Tran 360 (GP 2nd)
    Reed/Reed 213 (GP 7th)
    TOTAL: 3172

    USA
    Czisny 800 (GPF 1st)
    Flatt 472 (GPF 6th)
    Abbott 360 (GP 2nd)
    Mroz 360 (GP 2nd)
    Yankowskas/Coughlin & Evora/Ladwig 324 (GP 3rd)
    Davis/White 800 (GPF 1st)
    TOTAL: 3116

    CAN
    Lacoste 324 (GP 3rd)
    Phaneuf 292 (GP 4th)
    Chan 800 (GPF 1st)
    Reynolds 292 (GP 4th)
    Moore-Towers/Moscovitch 472 (GPF 6th)
    Crone/Poirier 648 (GPF 3rd)
    TOTAL: 2828

    RUS
    Gachinski 236 (GP 6th)
    Bush/Gorshkov/Dmitriev 225 (JGP 2nd)
    Makarova 360 (GP 2nd)
    Leonova 324 (GP 3rd)
    Iliushechkina/Maisuradze 583 (GP 4th)
    Bobrova/Soloviev 583 (GP 4th)
    TOTAL: 2311

    CHN
    Bingwa Geng 262 (GP 5th)
    Zijun Li & Kexin Zhang 203 (JGP 3rd)
    Han Yan 250 (JGP 1st)
    Nan Song 236 (GP 6th)
    Pang/Tong 720 (GPF 2nd)
    Huang/Zheng 262 (GP 5th)
    TOTAL: 1933

    ITA
    Contesti 292 (GP 4th)
    Zandron 97 (JGP 10th)
    Kostner 720 (GPF 2nd)
    Marchei 262 (GP 5th)
    Berton/Hotarek & Della Monica/Kocon 236 (GP 6th)
    Faiella/Scali 324 (GP 3rd)
    TOTAL: 1931

    Other Countries in contention:

    FRA
    Amodio 472 (GPF 6th)
    Joubert 292 (GP 4th)
    Meite 191 (GP 8th)
    Silete 182 (JGP 4th)
    [Canac/Bonheur at Euros]
    Pechalat/Bourzat 720
    TOTAL: 1857

    GER
    [Hecken at Euros/Worlds]
    Fussinger 120 (JGP 8th)
    Pfrengle 97 (JGP 10th)
    Liebers 213 (GP 7th)
    Wieczorek 164 (JGP 5th)
    Savchenko/Szolkowy 800 (GPF 1st)
    Frohberg/Giesen 191 (GP 8th)
    TOTAL: 1585

    CZE
    Verner 525 (GPF 5th)
    Coufal 133 (JGP 7th)
    [Brezina at Euros/Worlds]
    [Bocek at Euros, 2nd lady?]
    Kadlecova/Bidar 236 (GP 6th)
    Mysliveckova/Novak 262 (GP 5th)
    TOTAL: 1156

    ETA: I didn't include the names of all the injured skaters/teams that either missed the GP series or didn't score World Standings points.

    ETA #2: I used this method of calculation:
    See HisWeirness' post #15 below for the alternative method of calculation for the Russian and Chinese men.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
    geoskate and (deleted member) like this.
  10. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    thank you, I had read the rules, I was thinking it might be on an ISU site as the standings usually are to find there, but I didn't find it and was going to add the points to see witch countries might be in question, but wasn't sure if you have to take the points from JGP or if it is not allowed.
    Italy has both two men and more than one pair and dance, but due to injury they didn't compete

    The second Chinese pair was Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN 3rd place on GPF earned 648 points
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  11. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Happy Russian Hunger Games!

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    Sylvia, Bingwa Geng was 5th on the GP and got 262 points, more than Li/Zeng's 203. That gives CHN 1933, and they are two points ahead of ITA at this point.

    Here is what I have for the top 9 so far after the GP/JGP (Ladies, Men, Dance, Pairs)

    1. 3172 JPN (Murakami Suzuki Oda Kozuka Reed/Reed Tak/Tran)
    2. 3116 USA (Czisny Flatt Abbott Mroz Davis/White Yan/Co)
    3. 2828 CAN (Lacoste Phaneuf Chan Reynolds Crone/P M-T/M)
    4. 2277 RUS (Makarova Leonova Gachinski Tretiakov B/S I/M)
    5. 1931 ITA (Kostner Marchei Contesti Zandron F/S Bert/Hot)
    6. 1896 CHN (Geng Li Wu Song Huang/Zheng P/T)
    7. 1857 FRA (Meite Silete Amodio Joubert P/B, no pair :rolleyes:)
    8. 1585 GER (Fussinger Pfrengle Liebers Wieczorek F/G S/S)
    9. 1156 CZE (no ladies, Verner Coufal M/N K/B)

    I don't think any other Federations are really in the running.

    What is tricky is that no JGPF points count, so one has to be careful there.

    USA has 3116, 360 for Abbott and 360 for Mroz. Only two results count from GP and two results from ISU Champs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  12. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

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    I'm thankful Japan is putting this on again, as I doubt many other (if any) countries were competing for the event. It was a fun event last time, and it's a nice chance for the skaters to get some extra money.
     
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Thanks very much, HisWeirness! I've edited in your corrections into my post above.
    Only 1 pair and 1 dance score are counted. If more than 1 team has the same score I included their names, so that can be confusing when you're looking at my post.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  14. RFOS

    RFOS Well-Known Member

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    This section has me a little confused as to how this will be calculated:

    "If Skaters/Couples of a Member have not obtained points in the above-mentioned ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating and Final (senior) season 2010/2011, then the best result in one event of the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating individual events (only in individual events but not the Final) season 2010/2011 can be considered."

    I can see multiple different ways of interpreting this statement. I haven't looked at how things were calculated last year, and frankly didn't pay attention to this competition at all :shuffle:, but Sylvia/HisWeirness's method makes the most sense so I hope that is correct. Also, I didn't read every word of the whole document. ;)
     
  15. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Happy Russian Hunger Games!

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    Here is my final list:

    Top 15 after GP Series:

    1. 3172 JPN
    2. 3116 USA
    3. 2828 CAN
    4. 2277 RUS (2311 using Method #2)
    5. 1931 ITA
    6. 1896 CHN (1933 using Method #2)
    7. 1857 FRA
    8. 1585 GER
    9. 1156 CZE
    10. 944 SWE (Joshi H. Viktoria H. Schultheiss Majorov, no pairs/dance)
    11. 672 UKR (Milevskaia Kovalevski Pertsov, no pairs, Galyeta/Shumski)
    12. 659 GBR (No ladies, Mattick , Kerrs, Kemp/King)
    13. 639 ESP (Lafuente Fernandez Hurtado/Diaz, no pairs)
    14. 587 BEL (Vannut KVDP Hendrickx, no pairs/dance)
    15. 520 FIN (Korpi Shrestha, no men/pairs/dance)

    I need to double check the calculation and then I'll try to post my spreadsheet on my site. I didn't calculate for every eligible federation, so I may have missed something.

    Thanks for pointing this out, RFOS.

    This can be interpreted in two ways.

    1. One way is that senior GP/GPF scores count before JGP scores. So, if a federation sent at least two men to the senior GP/GPF, their points (if they earned any points) count before the points of skaters that earned their points on the JGP.

    2. The other way is that each skater has the best points result from the GP/GPF (or JGP if they were not on GP) assigned to them. The skaters with the best points results from each nation are counted.

    I have used method #1. Because of this, I had to change the Russian men, since I counted JGP points (225 from Bush, Dmitriev, etc.) before GP points (191, Tretiakov). Same for Chinese Men. I had to count Wu (213) and Song (236) instead of Song (236) and Han (250 JGP). I think the Russian and Chinese men are the only situations where the interpretation would come into play.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  16. maggylyn

    maggylyn Well-Known Member

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    IA. And on a purely superficial note, Japan can be counted on for cool Kiss 'n Cry areas. I loved the Kiss 'n Cries from the last WTT.

    :hat1:
     
  17. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    One thing I remember from last time is that the ISU, not the federations, chooses the competitors. The ISU made it clear that the skaters who earned the points were expected to compete.
    ( In 2009, the USFSA did not have a firm grasp as to who their top ladies were. So the ISU straightened them out on that matter. )
     
  18. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    No, the 6 federations had some discretion in choosing their own teams. IIRC, the 2009 WTT Announcement stated that the top 2 singles skaters in the ISU World Standings after 2009 Worlds should be considered by the federations, along with their World team members, and I believe Johnny Weir and Caroline Zhang were the #2 ranked U.S. man and lady at that time. Zhang was selected by USFS, while Weir reportedly declined the opportunity (hadn't he stopped training after Nationals?) and so Abbott was next in line in the standings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
    HisWeirness and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Searching for Cizeron's Instagram

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    Instead of 2 athletes per country in singles, I wish it was just one or two teams in Ice Dance and Pairs. That might have brought some equality to the all 4 events.
     
  20. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the breakdown, HW and Sylvia.

    For what its worth, here's the current order of World Standings for the singles of top teams...

    3172 JPN Oda 3, Takahashi 4, Kozuka 8, Hanyu 25, Machida 31, Mura 33
    3116 USA Abbott 7, Rippon 15, Mroz 18, Bradley 27, Messing 35
    2828 CAN Chan 2, Reynolds 22, Sawyer 28, Rogozine 40, J Ten 62
    2277 RUS Gachinski 16, Voronov 19, Borodulin 29, Bush 49, Gorshkov 53
    1931 ITA Contesti 6, Bacchini 45
    1896 CHN Nan Song 26, Jialiang Wu 37, Chao Yang 47, Han Yan 52, J Liu 59
    1857 FRA Joubert 10, Preaubert 11, Ponsero 13, Amodio 23, Besseghir 36
    1585 GER Liebers 34, Dotzauer 86, Streubel 97, Wieczorek 99, Brummer 114
    1156 CZE Verner 5, Brezina 9, Kaska 66, Coufal 80, Bidar 124
    944 SWE Schultheiss 17, Majorov 19, Berntsson 30


    3172 JPN Suzuki 2, Ando 4, Asada 6, Murakami 12, Imai 15, Suguri 29
    3116 USA Flatt 10, Czisny 11, Nagasu 16, Zhang 18, Wagner 20, Dobbs 26, Gao 31
    2828 CAN Rochette 5, Phaneuf 13, Lacoste 24, Samson 37, Szmiett 40, Charbonneau 60
    2277 RUS Leonova 7, Makarova 17, Shelepen 27, Agafonova 34, Ovcharova 45, Sheveleva 57, Sotnikova 66
    1931 ITA Kostner 3, Marchei 21, Rio 79, Garlisi 80
    1896 CHN Yan Liu 42, Zijun Li 81, Bingwa Geng 92, Quiying Zhu 98, Kexin Zhang 101
    1857 FRA Meite 43, Marrocco 46, Silete 47, Didier 48, Ventard 112
    1585 GER Hecken 22, Dytrt 59, Hacker 82, Drescher 90, Pfrengle 90, Hoffman 95
    1156 CZE Simaova 152, Bocek 160, Buzkova 160
    944 SWE J Helgesson 19, V Helgesson 23, Mellgren 52, I Olsson 62
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2011
  21. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Actually no. Here is the original communication from 2009.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEdrLRkjIuSc6FlC6It06mGv1QNFg&cad=rja

    The important points are these. Normally, world standings are based on the last 2 seasons, plus the current. For the 2009 WTT, a different system was set up using only the 2008 - 2009 season. Since Evan was World Champ and Jeremy was GPF champ, they were on top.

    Secondly, there is some tough language in that memo that states the ISU expects top skaters to compete, and mentions possible consequences.
     
  22. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Happy Russian Hunger Games!

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    ^ I read through both the document you linked (the preliminary announcement for WTT 2009) and the final announcement for WTT 2009 and did not see any language supporting that the ISU World Standings would be calculated any differently. :confused:

    All that these two 2009 announcements say is that the ISU can decide to exclude a team that does not consist of the best-ranked skaters:
    These announcements also threaten restrictions on exhibition skating and/or sanctions if certain skaters do not participate in WTT:

     
    Sylvia and (deleted member) like this.
  23. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    To alleviate your :confused: , here is the paragraph.

    b) Six (6) ISU Members will qualify based on points scored by its best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, best Pair Skating couple and best Ice Dancing couple, calculated in accordance to the scale of the ISU World Standing points in sub-paragraph e) below, primarily at ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating events and Final season 2008/09 as well as the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2009 (to be held on March 23-29, 2009 in Los Angeles/USA), plus possibly the ISU European Figure Skating Championships/ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships 2009, the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2009 and ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating season 2008/09.
     
  24. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Polymer, that refers to the way the countries qualify in the first place. As to which skaters from those countries are required to compete at WTT, it is (or was) how HW and Sylvia stated.
     
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    The question I have is what if you have a situation where V/T place higher at Worlds than K/S, but K/S have the higher ranking due to being together longer. Is the ISU really going to tell Russia they HAVE to use K/S?
     
  26. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I think this competition is a silly made for sponsors cheesefest. How can this even be considered a skating competition (as opposed to entertainment)? The final results do not depend on a individual's performance or skaters working together. It is clearly just a money grubbing venture far from the historical mission of the ISU.

    Furthermore, the ISU is cutting into opportunities for top finishers to earn money in exhibitions post-Worlds. This is terrible for skaters, offering them only a chance for prize money, as opposed to regular pay. How are they supposed to pay for the cost of participation in the sport?

    Let them do it. It will be funny.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  27. NMURA

    NMURA Member

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    Actually K/S are better than V/T. They are more popular in Japan.
     
  28. bek

    bek Guest

    Last time this competition was held, the prize money for everyone (even the last place finishers) was extremely good. I don't think having to do this for a weekend cut into anyone's earnings.
     
  29. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

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    Have you heard any skater complaining about the World Team Trophy? If I recall correctly, the feedback from the last event was enormously positive. The prize money for the skaters is also exceptionally good, so I have no idea what you are talking about. :confused:
     
  30. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    The teams consist of two women, two men, one ice dance team and one pairs team. So Japan will have four very strong entries out of six, which is as much as can be said for any of the other countries.


    The team competition in artistic gymnastics also depends on individual performances by gymnasts, but it is a very prestigious event, appreciated by the audiences and the gymnasts.

    In figure skating, the team competition measures something different than the individual competitions: it shows the overall level of skating in a country, in all four disciplines, rather than in a single discipline. So I disagree that it is meaningless. Admit it, it is exciting!