ISU Introduces 'Season's World Ranking' and Points Changes - Comm. 1629

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by HisWeirness, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Toes. You gotta keep 'em separated.

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    11,620
    Today the ISU published Communication 1629 on their website. This communication replaces Communication 1460 which used to govern World Standings.

    This communication changes some of the point values used to determine the ISU World Standings and introduces a new ranking, the "ISU Season's World Ranking."

    So, now the "World Standings" is the ranking system that takes into account results in two preceding seasons as well as the current season. The World Standings will still be used for ISU Championship draws and for GP assignments.

    The "Season's World Ranking" is based on the results of the current ongoing season only. The ISU describes it as follows:
    The "Season's World Ranking" is basically a sorted list of how many World Standing Points skaters have earned in the current season only. The ISU has been internally keeping a list like this for a while to give out bonuses to the skaters who earned the most World Standings Points in a season. Now this list will be posted during the season on the ISU website and updated after each competition.


    Changes to the ISU World Standing/Season's World Ranking Points Rules:

    1. ISU says they will now identify international competitions that do not earn world standing points on their website Event Calendar.

    2. At ISU Championships (including Jr. Worlds) and the Olympics competitors only earn world standing points if they reach and finish the final Free Skating/Free Dance (1-24 in Singles, 1-16 in Pairs, and 1-20 in Ice Dance according to the new rules).
    The previous rules stated that places 1-24 in Singles and Dance get points and places 1-20 in Pairs get points.

    3. The number of world standing points available to be earned at Jr. Worlds and the JGP final have been reduced. The communication says that this was done to "reflect better the weight between all events valid for ISU World Standings /ISU Season’s World Ranking points."

    Ex. New (old) points for Jr. Worlds Medalists:
    500 (715)
    450 (644)
    405 (579)...etc.

    Ex. New (old) points for JGP Final:
    350 (600)
    315 (540)
    284 (486)
    255 (437)
    230 (394)
    207 (354)
    186 (319)
    167 (287)

    JGP event points remain the same, with the winner getting 250 points, second 225, and third 203.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Thanks. These are all good changes.

    I think they should also do something about personal bests.

    The number of elements have been reduced in pretty much all programs since those have been introduced so it will be very hard for some skaters to beat them.
     
  3. query5

    query5 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    672
    kinda of like it. now we can tell what the ranking is during the current skating seasons.
    so it will change ranking and standings going into this skating season-correct. or am i wrong.
     
  4. Kwantumleap

    Kwantumleap Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,942
    Comm. 1629 AKA Kostner and Verner were never the number one skaters in the world.
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    There is nothing stopping other skaters from competing at more competitions.
     
  6. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Toes. You gotta keep 'em separated.

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    11,620
    These changes take effect with the 2010-11 season. The only change really is that the ISU will make the Season's World Ranking list available during the season and that the world standings points awarded to Jr. Worlds and JGP Final have been reduced.

    The Season's World Ranking list will probably be meaningless until at least the Fall season (JGP and GP and Finals) is finished.

    You can go here and see the final 2009-10 Season's World Rankings for each discipline (old name was "World Standings Bonus" list).

    I think the Season's Best score list that the ISU regularly updates is another good measure of how a skater is performing in the current season.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  7. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    15,266
    Not stopping, but certainly deterring broader participation: travel effort required for the skater (almost all of the events are in Europe) = training time lost, exhaustion, and expense , sa well as competition expenses for the skater and the federation (coaching fees, cost of sending team leader and medical support, etc.). All of this is much easier if you are only a short train or plane ride away.
     
  8. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Toes. You gotta keep 'em separated.

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    11,620
    Maybe the question should be,
    What's stopping NA and Asian federations from hosting any/more International Competitions (that count for world standing points)?

    Is it :bribe:, geography, organizational resources or ???

    Not that this hasn't been discussed before whenever this points issue comes up.
     
  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Why doesn't USFS (or SC) organise a B-International then?

    I just can't get it.

    It would be great for all NA skaters and I guess closer than Europe for some Asian ones too?
     
  10. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    16,591
    Sorry, but I am a little confused. So does this mean everyone is starting the season with zero points and only skaters who perhaps do an early event before the GP will have some points going into the GP?

    And does this mean they will do away with the skate order by world ranking at events?
     
  11. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,890
    "B" Asian and NA competitions could be held, yes, but such competitions would probably not meet the criteria for the number of competitors from different federations/regions---for the same reasons that not many NA and Asian competitors go to European "B" competitions.

    A competition in Europe can get enough contenders from different countries to more than meet the minimum requirements in order to get ISU World Ranking points. I don't think NA and Asian competitions could draw enough competitors from outside their regions to qualify for World Ranking points. The only way to draw outside competitors would be to offer huge prize money, and that is probably not going to happen.
     
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Nope it means that the old system stays but they are also going to be showing a list of skaters earning the highest number of points in a given season.
     
  13. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,890
    Will the new values for JW and JGPF apply to the 3-season World Ranking list also?
     
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    I would imagine that since law cannot work backwards, it will start applying from this season.
     
  15. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Toes. You gotta keep 'em separated.

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    11,620
    For this season, yes. I am not sure if it will be retroactively applied. I'm assuming that the new points system will be used to award points this season and the points already awarded in previous seasons will be unchanged.

    Looking at the rosters for big NA competitions like Liberty, I don't think it would be that difficult to have skaters from at least four different federations present at a senior comp in singles and dance and three different federations in pairs. The USA and Canada have tons of skaters, plus there are always skaters training in NA that represent other countries.

    What's probably more of a challenge is to get the 3-member Technical Panel to be from 3 different federations. However, a CAN-USA-MEX combo would not be too difficult or :bribe: to put together, perhaps.

    Here are the qualifications for a Senior Competition to "count" for points:
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Yeah, I am very surprised that USFS doesn't go for something like that.

    There are skaters from many different countries training in the US and Canada, after all, as you pointed out.
     
  17. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    16,591
    Thanks Ziggy, that makes more sense to me now.

    On the other topic of the USFS and Skate Canada holding some "B" international events, I think that would be great. But it does seem like most of the countries holding "B" events are also not already hosting more costly Grand Prix events.
     
  18. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,708
    It is something I hope USFSA and Skate Canada are looking into. Whenever they select locations for their GP events and nationals, there is always moaning from people on the other side of the country. So if they look at this as a way to market the sport and have a presence in a part of the country that can't conveniently get to Nationals or the GP, perhaps it would be more enticing. And cities that are looking to prove they would be good hosts will have an opportunity to get great experience hosting an event.
     
  19. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Toes. You gotta keep 'em separated.

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    11,620
    This is a really good point. A Senior B competition could be used as a test-event for potential or future event cities. They wouldn't have to necessarily hold it at a large venue (like one that would be used to hold US Nationals), but the organizational/club team would get excellent experience dealing with high-level competition details and USFSA officials.
     
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    I am sure Grand Prix events actually bring profit and don't run on a loss.
     
  21. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,902
    So let's look at Liberty:

    Women's had Denmark, USA, and Canada. Also Joelle Forte who either is or isn't competing for Azerbaijan. At times, you'll see a Mexican competitor or a Taipei competitor.

    Men's: Canada, USA, ITA. Sometimes you'll see Puerto Rico (back when Rohene Ward competed for PR). Viktor Pfeiffer (AUT) sometimes competes.

    Pairs: US & CAN. That's usually it. At Indy pairs, you might get Takahashi/Tran (JPN) as well.

    Dance: No dance competition at all.

    LPIDC dance draws from more than 4 federations, but has no other segments.

    Indy Pairs Challenge has pairs only.

    So it's doable, but at least 2 competitions would have to merge. Or one of the smaller competitions that has all 4 disciplines would have to enlarge.
     
  22. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2001
    Messages:
    16,239
    And they'd have to place the B international wisely, geographically - because the reason why some of the international skaters go to Liberty is because they train in NJ, and it's not far. So I'm thinking the B comp would do best if it's in a location that's near several major training facilities.
     
  23. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,902
    It probably should be in Detroit, Ottawa, Toronto, or Indianapolis, to tell the truth; the hardest group to get multiple feds would be pairs & dance. Somehow it could be made to work for the other 2 disciplines.
     
  24. YoenNL

    YoenNL Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    620
    Work to do MEX.... there are currently no MEX TS or TC (not even after the Frankfurt seminar which is just finished)
     
  25. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,643
    All these club-run events also offer lower level competitions and all are open to anyone who meets the test requirements and submits an application, with application fee, by the deadline.

    Occasionally in the past NAC events (novice and junior levels) were held in conjunction with large club competitions. Would this be something along those lines, but for seniors instead?

    What additional sanctioning hoops would the organizing committee have to go through? Or would USFigureSkating or Skate Canada step in and take full charge of the senior events?

    Some are held in arenas with seating for several thousand, but most are held at local rinks. Would there be minimum requirements for spectators or press, or hospitality for officials, for official senior B events than for club competitions that local rinks might have a harder time meeting?

    Would the extra requirements, if any, for the senior B international put constraints on the ability to offer, say, prejuvenile events earlier in the week or simultaneously on another ice surface?

    What kind of responsibility would the host club have for dealing with international travel etc.?

    How much would it just be adding an ISU sanction and designation to an existing club event, and how much would it require adding a new event to the federation's international hosting duties?

    It would be great if all the details could be worked out.
     
  26. YoenNL

    YoenNL Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    620
    Why not have a "B" international during summer training in the USA? There are lots of skaters and coaches from Europe (actually some of them also qualified as TS) and many skaters would like their programs checked by an international panel at the end of the summercamp.
     
  27. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    9,902
    A good place then might be Lake Placid-which already has the LPIDC. It has 2arenas from the old Olympics (so the B comp could be run in the larger arena while the regular lower level comps could be held in arena number 2. It has run JGP events recently, so it probably has what it needs from the ISU point of view for a B comp.


    Liberty/Ice Works has 4 rinks but none of them has more seating than is needed for a HS hockey game, so it won't do.
     
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Joelle Forte represents USA.

    There is an ISU events every year in Czech Republic that is Ice Dance only (Pavel Roman Memorial).

    Not sure if you get world ranking points from it, though.

    gkelly - In regards to the points you raised, European B-Internationals usually attract zero spectators and zero press. ;)
     
  29. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,708
    Finlandia seemed to have a huge crowd last year, but perhaps that's because it was the olympic season.
     
  30. NMURA

    NMURA Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Messages:
    400
    More like because of Takahashi. I've heard sizable Japanese fans went to FT last year thanks to appreciation of yen.