ISU Congress

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by drfj, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    The problem is the technical panel needs to know which step sequence counts as a step sequence and which counts as the choreo step sequence...
    Most choreo step sequences don't have the technical requirements to get the levels, so it is important that they are evaluated for what they are.

    I do agree with you that it make it harder to structure your program to fit the music, but I myself can't see away around the requirement that the choreo has to be the second step sequence... :S?
  2. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Would be nice if they'd call it based on the planned program content sheet (I mean- what is the point of those)- but they don't. They level the first one regardless.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2012
  3. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    It's like the people of the ISU don't know how the halfway bonus is being used in the free skate! No one does any jumps in the last minute or 30 seconds. It is all right at the halfway point! All SP jumps done for bonus will be done at exactly 1:25 just like in free skates it is 2:00 or 2:15. If its more than 1 the times will be 1:25 and 1:28 and so on. However long it takes a skater to set up the next jump. No one in the coming season will do a SP jump at 2:20 or 30. You wont see that at all!!
  4. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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  5. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Well, it makes it easier for the technical panel IF the skater attempts to stick to the plan -- at least in the order of types of elements even if they switch one jump for another, or even one spin for another.

    E.g., if the very first element is a step sequence, it's really useful for the callers and the video operator to know that in advance and not figure it out halfway through the sequence when they realize that all those edges and turns weren't just general choreography before the first jump.
  6. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Great point! Very witty and clear. I suddenly get curious though, if a skater doesn't follow the order of contents that they have submitted, would it be one of occasions when judges and tech panels have extra hard time determining and scoring the performance causing a belated announcement?
  7. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like in the case of a leveled sequences vs choreo sequence they could just tell you you have to stick to the plan... Maybe it doesn't need to come before the planned toe loop, but if you tell them the first is choreo, then whatever you do second is leveled.
  8. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    It could. Especially in situations (e.g., adult events in the US, novice FS a few years ago) where skaters have a choice between step sequence or spiral sequence.

    There are also alternatives in free dances but I'm not as familiar with dance details.

    If they just plain skate a completely different program with a completely different structure than the sheet indicates, maybe the panel will ignore the sheet and not have the asst. specialist pre-call what element to expect next.

    My impression for singles, which I'm most familiar with, has been that the delays after the program are usually caused by many elements that need video review (jump rotations, spin rotations, does the spin qualify for a certain feature or not -- I'm sure the latter is even more true of all the pair elements with levels.

    But sometimes skaters mess up an element in ways that makes it not count as the element they intended, and then there is confusion about how to call it.

    E.g., if a combo spin has too big a recentering or an extra step between the first and second foot and gets called as two separate spins, that affects not only that element but the numbering of all the subsequent elements and may affect whether a subsequent spin gets counted or asterisked out.

    Or if a skater falls on both non-axel jumps in a short program, there may be some discussion over which one to call as +COMBO and which as the solo jump (except in junior where the solo jump is specified).
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I still the sequencing is dumb. Unlike with jumps/combos, where they can be changed on the fly -- and even that is relatively rare -- step and other sequences as elements (as opposed to adjusting content within them) are pretty much built into the program, and the skaters could declare ahead of time which was which. They already submit non-binding programs, no?
  10. AusTechSpec

    AusTechSpec New Member

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    You wouldn't believe how often skaters change a segment of their step sequences or even whole segments of their programs half way through competing..:lol:
  11. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    But if they declared which was which ahead of time, it could be binding and judged that way.
  12. galaxygirl

    galaxygirl Ma name's Beckeh

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    I apologize if this has been covered--the level of detail in this thread is making my head hurt :lol:--but can't the technical panel just assign levels to both of the step sequences, then call the one with the lower level the choreographic sequence?
  13. sk8girl

    sk8girl Member

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    Yes, but given that the skater doesn't have to stick to the plan AT ALL, the callers still need to evaluate everything anyway, including the very first element, right? They can't assume that anything in the plan is actually going to happen as planned, not even the very first element. So, how much does it really help for them to have the plan? This has bugged me for a while, actually. Does anyone on here happen to have experience as a caller?

    I know competitive skaters who don't bother updating their planned program sheets even if they change their choreography or planned elements throughout the season, because their coaches tell them the sheets don't matter and they can do whatever they want anyway. So, I imagine there are some very inaccurate sheets being handed in. :lol:
  14. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    That would make sense. More work for the panel than not having to call one but no more than when there were two leveled sequences.

    Of course that would just encourage many skaters to plan two difficult sequences and hope they get a higher level on one of them.
  15. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Which is just about the opposite of the intention of a choreographic sequence!
  16. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    That would be very unfair. What happens when you change your feet too wide on your spin combination? At the moment they may call it as two spins and there is a chance that the last spin in your program may not be counted because that will suddenly be extra spin. If they were counting elements only according to the planned content sheet, both those spins would not be the combination you intended, so they would be wrong - possibly not counted. In addition, all your elements after that mistake would not be counted because every element would be one place further than on your list.
  17. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I think Kwanfan meant you just declare which step sequence is which (levelled or choreographic) in advance and you are held to that, not to the jumps or spins etc.
  18. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Exactly.
  19. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    That would not happen. Often the Planned Element Sheet is not available or is not followed by the skater. The Tech Pannel must record what is skated and what they see. That why the program display has a space called "Planned Element" and one called "Executed".
  20. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    Eh, I'm not impressed by the current state of spins, flailing arm step sequences and a billion different steps between each element just to rack up points. As I said, my tastes are probably quite old fashioned, but I enjoy a simple one position spin over 3 "difficult" positions, and i see nothing wrong with crossovers, or more simple steps DONE WELL. We will have to agree to disagree :)
  21. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Sorry one interruption to the ongoing discussion:

    For SD in 2012-13 and 13-14, is the side by side step sequence still in the circular pattern?
  22. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    Decisions of the ISU council: http://t.co/dPs1OAOa

    It addresses controlling numbers after removing the preliminary rounds through minimum technical scores, but the requirements look really high to me, particularly for Worlds. Just going on the scores from Worlds last year only the top 15-17 in each discipline would meet the required score for Worlds next season. (Obviously a few more would sneak in looking at the scores over the whole season, but annoyingly the ISU doesn't break down the SB list into TES and PCS...)
    Does anyone know what the required scores were this year for comparison purposes?
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  23. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    They're also introducing minimum scores for Junior Worlds, and those scores are not low.

    So federations will need to make sure anyone who they hope to send to Junior Worlds, who is capable of earning those scores, has gotten JGP or other international assignments as an opportunity to earn the minimum score.

    How many junior internationals take place in January and February, for surprise junior national champs or junior skaters who were injured in the fall?
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  26. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    Thanks kwanfan1818 :) Some of those increases are enormous.
  27. Oz_sk8ting_mum

    Oz_sk8ting_mum New Member

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    Someone mentioned that the Junior Men in Pairs and dance age had been dropped from 21 to 20. Can this be confirmed??
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I can't confirm it 100% but the ages have been lowered and I think it's by one year, yes.
  29. Poggi

    Poggi wannabe flower-girl

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    Well, at least with the demise of preliminaries the stupid direct entries die to. That sums up all the positives I can think of.