ISU Congress

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by drfj, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    gkelly and (deleted member) like this.
  2. pani

    pani Well-Known Member

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    Any official information about 2013 WCh?
  3. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    #australiaforworlds2013

    Well c'mon. What better place for the pre-Olympic Worlds than somewhere politikly neutral? :p
  4. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Sit through all of 4CC ladies and I think you might see it differently.
  5. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I read the alledged reasoning would be financial, not their ability to run and schedule an event. Canada isn´t Russia where the government financially supported that event. I can't picture this government doing anything to help.

    I don't know any more than you but maybe if they knew the size of the bill they would be getting they would have come to the conclusion that it was better to hold it in a different city with a larger seating capacity. Or not made a bid. These are just possibilities would seem pretty common sense to me.

    "Nine months away" is also not a "great hurry" for a competition of this level. Fans protest? If you can´t commit to an event a year in advance then there is an easy solution, don't. Those that can will purchase their tickets and those that can´t will wait until closer to the date to do so. If they are sold out well that' s unfortunate but that's business.

    I was just offering a possible reasoning for the rumour. Debating any further is pointless at this point so I will finish with saying having been part of the organizing committee for an international event it´s more than a little hiccup when things like this happen. The rumoured reaction could also just be an annoyed/angry response to the consequences of this vote.

    I don't know the current rules for funding by the ISU but smaller federations did get funding based on the amount of ISU sanctioned events they attend. So with this new rule, they benefit financially (or they did in the past) but loose the bill they had before for their skater if they did not make it past the qualifying rounds. These smaller federations will never have the cost of hosting a worlds because they typically don't have the facilities. I FULLY SUPPORT the inclusion of the athletes because it does help develop the sport within each country. Just maybe not the financial arrangements.
  6. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    It should only be painful for the judges. Everyone else has the freedom to leave and since the best skaters typically skate near the end it should be easy to schedule in your dinner break.
  7. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's Four Continents. We do expect the bottom standards at the continental championships to be lower than at Worlds. In particular, since 4Cs is still small enough that it can be developmental for newer federations, they're all allowed to send 3 entries to 4Cs, but they can only send one, generally their top skater, to Worlds.

    They all still have to have met the minimum scores to be at 4Cs. But they won't all get to Worlds.

    Right. The championships are more for the skaters (and federations) than for the spectators. Skating is still primarily an amateur sport.

    Hopefully judges enjoy analyzing less-than-world-medal-level skating so it isn't especially painful. They certainly have to do it often enough.

    However, if the short program draws aren't seeded then it's harder to schedule around the top skaters. And sometimes skaters having a breakout late in the season, that fans want to see, don't have the rankings yet to get seeded into the later groups.
  8. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I watched all the ladies (and men) and thoroughly enjoyed seeing the lower level ones. They all tried very hard, and many had great presentation and interesting programs. Because they are only trying to do their best, no hopes of the podium where every tenth counts, they don't pander to code of points quite so much.


    Because of the altitude some of the top skaters were just as fatigued. As gkelly pointed out- most of those skaters won't get to go to World's anyway. Most feds only send 1.
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  9. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, and there was a warning on the website about the schedule being subject to change pending decisions of the ISU Congress.
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Even if tickets are sold well ahead of time, which is quite nice for cash flow, there should always be the warning that the schedule might change. If the prelim rule goes into effect in 2013, it's not as if the face value of all of the individual tickets for London minus prelims is less than the price of the full event ticket. And it's not as if they sold the tickets and changed the week of the event.
  11. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why eliminating the preliminaries make the event more expensive for Skate Canada. It seems like it would be cheaper. What am I missing?
  12. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    If Skate Canada has to provide the accommodations for all the skaters, who would normally be eliminated, that is a lot more expensive.

    If they have already contracted ice time, that they are now obligated to pay for, they will have to do that without recouping money from ticket sales. Except I can't imagine you'd make more than three dollars from preliminary ticket sales- who would go? I bet almost all the people are on all event tickets or comped.
  13. maggylyn

    maggylyn New Member

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    I watched them all also, and enjoyed it very much.

    I appreciate how hard they have worked to get to a 4CC competition.
  14. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    What is the difference financially, for example, between >30 (singles) being eliminated after prelims and 6 being eliminated after the SP, and eliminating all but 24 in the SP?

    Having a set contract for the arena and practice ice for prelims might be the biggest financial issue for SC, since there's usually a tie in with zambonis and drivers, security, ushers, etc. The ISU could just as easily have decided to raise the minimum score and/or limit the competitions where the minimum could be earned, making prelims unnecessary in all or most disciplines. (For example, were the GP minimum used instead of the championship TES minimum, with only ISU events eligible for minimum scores, my quick count shows 30 qualifiers for the Ladies SD.)

    To not have either put the contingency into the contract or have budgeted for insurance to cover a change would be a problem.
  15. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    I think for the minimum score for ISU Championships the ISU needs the approval of the congress (unlike for the Grand Prix). Obviously the same federations with weaker skaters that voted out the preliminaries never would agree to a high minimum score that eliminates their skaters from the beginning.
  16. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I thought the ISU Council pushed through CoP without the approval of the ISU Congress, and because IJS and minimum scores are addressed in "Special Regulations and Technical Rules," that this was without explicit consent of the ISU Congress.

    If the ISU Congress needs to pass a change in the minimum score for championships, then, absolutely, it would be crazy for all but the stronger feds to vote for a change that drastic.
  17. crzesk8dad

    crzesk8dad Active Member

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    One of the toughest jobs in the LOC for Worlds is the "Hotel Chairperson". I was on the LOC for 2009 Worlds in LA..fortunately I handled transportation..however the lady that did it (and she had done it at other competitions) was exactly what was needed. She was organized and TOUGH TOUGH TOUGH.

    Some of the countries that didn't have skaters go on the next level would attempt to skip out and not pay their bill...or they would try to stay longer and have the LOC pay the tab, even thought they were finished.

    Fortunately, there was close cooperation between her and the ISU Director, so if any problems did occur, let's just say, it was handled quickly.
    kwanfan1818 and (deleted member) like this.
  18. Morry Stillwell

    Morry Stillwell Well-Known Member

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    Entry Fee Reduction.
  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Why would any fewer skaters enter the SP/SD than would enter the prelims?
  20. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Are you going to organise it?
  21. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Please note use of :p smiley. :p

    I would love to see it happen, but I don't think it would. I would be volunteering in a flash though.
  22. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    OK, I get it.
  23. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    It would be great if Australia were able to host a Worlds after being robbed in 2000. However, with the current economic situation, the only way many other federations could afford to take their teams all the way to Australia is probably by putting them on a raft a month in advance. :(
  24. AndyWarhol

    AndyWarhol Well-Known Member

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    i laughed at raft :lol:
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Yes, book rate.
  26. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    :( You're right...it'd be okay for the bigger federations, but some of the smaller European ones might miss out...although I can't imagine it'd be hugely more exspensive than flying to north America?

    #australiawuzrobbed :(
  27. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    It's about triple the price from where I am.

    Those who shall never see Australia wuzrobbed. :(
  28. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Great you can come and volunteer at Nationals when they are held in Melbourne next. You can do the 6.00am practise sessions.
  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    :sekret:

    The media was a big part of the reason for the changes happening in the first place, if I understand it correctly.

    Canada fought hard for the Preliminaries not to be scrapped arguing that lack of them would mean 9-10 hours more ice time would be needed and that it would make organising Worlds much more expensive in general, meaning they would be now impossible to finance.

    I don't know any more details, unfortunately. We'd have to ask Skate Canada. ;)

    As Morry Stillwell posted, less money from entry fees is probably a factor as well.

    This can't be stressed enough.

    TLDR version: Unless skaters aren't given opportunities to at least perform at the big events, skating programs in smaller countries are never going to develop.

    Yeah, last time you got them, it was such a roaring success. :p

    Are you sure?

    Because I think what is going to happen now is ISU Council pushing higher minimum scores behind everybody's backs so that ISU Championships can happen at all. :wall:

    The TV contracts are already signed in advance for the next two seasons I think, so the ISU championships need to happen in a 4 day format.

    There isn't enough time to let everybody skate SP/SD.

    So there doesn't seem to be any other solution now, other than drastically cutting the number of the skaters who can actually compete. :(
  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    The following changes have been passed today:

    - Novice maximum age for Singles lowered by 1 year

    - Novice maximum age for Pairs/Dance lowered to 'not have yet reached 15/17'

    - Senior minimum age is now 15 for all events (so no more 14 year olds at the GP; Lipnitskaya will have to return to the JGP)

    A lot of feds are going to be pissed off about the Novice changes, once again, not particularly well played. :p
  31. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    This is sensible. It's about time the age was consistent.

    No news on the rule about turning Senior and not going back? Or has that one been ditched?
  32. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Australia's Worlds were hijacked to France using an excuse, so don't you blame them.

    You were to young to make sense of it at the time. :p
  33. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I wish they'd go back to the rule that Junior Worlds medalists are exempted from the age qualification requirements for senior competition, or at least that the Junior World Champions were.
  34. kates8

    kates8 Member

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    When do the age maximum/minimums come into play?
  35. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    this was what I had in mind too :shuffle:
    I wonder why nobody proposed to it ?
  36. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    There were issues with tv contracts or Australia failing to get proper coverage of the event, no?

    From next season, if I understand it correctly.
  37. Daphne

    Daphne Active Member

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    Ziggy - did they vote down the proposal to change the junior ages or has that not come up yet?
  38. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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    Aren't the changes effective starting 2014?
  39. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update, Ziggy.
  40. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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