Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by drfj, Jun 12, 2012.
You must give the smaller federations some credit for deciding what's best for them.
It comes back to the whole argument about what qualifies a skater to go to worlds. Really there are some skaters who by virtue that they a members of the ISU get to go to a Worlds, even if they are not World standard.
It looks like "the mob effect" has taken place and they did something without thinking it through at all.
As much as I hated the Preliminary Rounds, having them is definitely better - both for the small federations and for us - to the situation that we might end up with now, with skaters from smaller federations not being able to compete at ISU Championships at all.
And I wonder what's going to happen about 2013 Worlds. Japan will take them?
I think that is the idea of having an Olympic, 'amateur' sport.
Plus, smaller federations have to start somewhere.
How is eliminating prelims to their advantage? Do they think the ISU Council won't do something else they control -- like raise the minimum scores/criteria -- to lower the number of participants and costs?
I guess they thought that we would now be back to Short Program in two parts, like before.
But that is definitely not going to happen due to financial constraints, tv contracts, etc.
The only thing I care about is going back to the Tue-Sat schedule and not having the 2 finals on Saturday. I hope that changes now that theyve ditched the qualies. Mind you, I am assuming that wont be the case for the 2013 season, as the tickets and dates for the championships are already sold and set.
If it's true that Canada is looking to dump them, my hope is that Japan would take them.
I dont understand why would a nation dump hosting an event if the qualies are not there anymore? I am lost...
I can't imagine that happening. Narrowing the ISU Championships down to a 4 day format was a cost saving and the tv networks liked it too.
Everybody who didn't get past the Preliminary Rounds had to pay their own expenses.
Everybody who got eliminated, got eliminated at the beginning of the week meaning they only used 2 days of ice time for practice.
Those who didn't need to skate in the Preliminary Rounds didn't start their practices until Monday at earliest.
So all in all, a bit less ice time was needed.
Now what I don't understand is why they can't change it so that all the federations have to pay their own expenses and solve the problem this way.
I guess the answer is: no federations are going to willingly vote to bear more expenses.
But wouldn't doing that be better than not having your skaters at ISU Championships at all...
It is a sad statement, if it is true, that a country like Canada - that chose a VERY modest location with limited seating - could not host this event. Very sad statement for the status of the sport in North America.
What the hell is the point of the World Championships if not to be a championship for skaters all over the world, where the best skater in every country gets a shot to compete? If you want all the barriers to compete that you can think of, fine, that's the GP, go knock yourselves out with your exclusive competitions that approach irelevance when your field of six gets winnowed down to four because of injuries and withdrawls. Yeah, some countries have deep fields and it sucks that their 4th skater is zomg so much better than all those skaters from other countries, but you know what, I can see the 4th best Russian skater at RUS nationals. Worlds aren't one or two or three countries' national championships. It's the world friggin championships. It should be open. There should be a big field. That's the whole bloody point!
Wait. Where did the rumor about Canada dumping Worlds come from? I was planning to attend, and this is not good news
That should be in Australia's case "skaters had to pay their own way, their coaches way and split the expenses for the team leader"
Here's an idea to save some cost's you don't get to send 3 competitors for each competiton you only send the best from each country. How can you call it "worlds" if all members are not able to participate in some way ?? (I already know that your not going to like that suggestion) But smaller federations REALLY struggle and get no funding, our skaters pay their own way to attend.
I'm curious what it cost the participants from some of the powerhouse countries to attend?
I'm with you!!!
The point of a world championship is to send and crown the best skaters in the world. You complain that some skaters from countries are left out but some skaters who are really good get left out too because they are limited as to how many they can send, so if the best in the world aren't there, it's still not a true World Championship.
If you can see all the skaters at their respective nationals, why have Worlds at all? I hate to see good skaters get left out (esp if they can get in the top 10) because a skater who can't even get a total score higher that most free skates got to go instead.
Hey skating doesn't have to only be in Japan.. It can go to Russia too. Alternating between Russia and Japan. (with Korea thrown in if they can ever find a replacement for Kim)
For championships, though, the hosts get to have a skater in the SP/SD, even if the skater didn't make it through the prelims. I don't know if the expenses through the SP/SD are covered if the host provision is used, but it makes little sense for smaller fed hosts to care about prelims. Maybe non-host Feds, but why do they think theam same carrying costs won't be applied to the SP/SD? What am I missing?
Have you ever watched a competition with 50 lousy competitors? It's a painful sight and dead tiring. I'd rather see 20 best in the world even if all of them are from Japan/Canada/USA/Russia then have skaters from Israel, India, Iceland, Ireland and other I....
Add to that the fact that most of those not deep fielded countries are represented by useless american skaters who hold just about any passport. Seriously, go though the 4CC ladies competitors - 80% of them were born and train in the USA, just can make it through the local rink competition. Is that what you'd like to see during the worlds?
I agree World Championships is exactly that, it is not an exclusive event for the worlds greatest skaters, if that is the case Nationality is not important it should just be invited skaters. World Championships whether you like it or not is for the Whole World not exclusive regions! The stronger skating Nations have more spots already so I think that assists with making sure plenty of top skaters are present. Developing Nations should be embraced and encouraged by the stonger Nations to participate, after all this is Amateur INTERNATIONAL sport! I think the senior GP circuit is exclusive enough as it is an invitational series, this allow a select few to compete on the senior A circuit and attend the GPF perhaps this series is elitist enough.
I do also agree there is a problem with many developing countries being represented by US skaters with multiple passports, not sure what the solution to that is, as most skaters that are born and raised in developing Nations tend to train as much as possible in US.
Where is the evidence that the TV networks liked having to schedule two finals on a Saturday instead of one, when so many other sports are competing for these slots? It seems like an extra difficulty!
They would also have used two days of ice time for practice if they had skated only in the short program, without the preliminaries. Those who didn't get past the SP could pay their own expenses too.
With the preliminaries, the skaters who ended up qualifying actually used more ice time and stayed longer in their hotels. And the judges had to stay longer as well.
I don't get how this would be more expensive either.
Anyway, as for Canada dumping the pre-Olympic Worlds because of a bit of extra expense - they may have threatened to do it, but I'll believe it when see it!
Why are you complaining? Those of us who go rollerskating through whole sections of the event and hardly spend two hours per week in the rink should not comment on the format.
TAHbKA, whatever about skaters from Israel and India, the skater from Ireland is actually from Ireland. Iceland don't send skaters to Euros or Worlds for some reason.
I can only speak from my own country's perspective, but the Irish federation is honestly making efforts to develop skating as a sport here. But with no government funding, it is a real struggle. The fact that one of our skaters made it to the top 30 of Worlds this year is a huge success.
The sport is already heavily weighted in favour of the bigger nations. Europeans, 4CC and Worlds are all the majority of nations have in terms of their athletes competing on a global stage and getting local media exposure for the sport. If you take the right of all nations to field competitors at World, you will be left with USA/Canada/Japan/Russia/China/France and it will severely stunt the sport in all the other countries.
Think about Spain or Korea - who would have thought we would have top competitors from either of these nations ten years ago? It's because skaters in those countries had Worlds at the very least to aim for that there was motivation for them and their federations to develop.
And nobody is forcing you to sit through 50 lousy skaters you know. Just show up for the ones you're interested in.
I would like to see a qualifying system whereby (for example) the top 12 skaters at Worlds automatically qualify THEMSELVES for next year's worlds / Olympics, and 12 to 18 skaters qualify THEMSELVES via achieving a minimum score, or medalling at the GPs, making GPF, placing top 5 at Euros / 4CCs or a certain seasons best ranking etc. And then there can be 6 to 10 host picks for each GP / GPF / Euro / 4CC / Worlds hosting nation. Then you have 40 skaters going into the short program every year at Worlds, with a good level of skating based on the season's performance, some advantage for hosting nations of major skating events, and no advantage for skaters just because they have a super talented teammate (i.e. Marchei's fate will be in her own hands instead of resting on which Kostner shows up, and both Helgesson sisters can qualify to Worlds on their own etc).
There were never preliminaries in TEB
The complaint is about Nebelhorn trophy and expecting the Euros/Worlds to turn into the same type of torture (don't get me wrong, am enough of a masochist to watch all 50 ladies even then. Will go on complaining though )
Fair enough. Ireland and Iceland aside, the 4CC competitors (ladies event) biographies made the competition sound
Doctor, I'm a masochist!
The thing is that it's your patriotism talking rather than a pure figure skating fanatism which is cosmopolitan. Had Peters represented any other country you would snark endlessly about a skater making it to the Euros without bothering landing a single tripple jump. You would also not be aware of her hard training condition and you wouldn't appreciate all the hard work she and the Irish federation had done. It's all great, but when you have 30 such competitors in one competition and you don't care about 29 of them, it doesn't leave too much room for the excitement.
There is an element of patriotism, but I tend to snark more about costume, choreography and music choices rather than jumps in any case.
Although I have to say it's rather impressive that she has qualified 3 out of 4 times from the preliminary rounds at championships. She must be doing something right.
While I'm not in favour of countries "importing" skaters, I do believe that every member of the ISU should be able to send a representative to championships when they meet the requirements and I can't remember ever questioning a skater's right to compete at Worlds.
Reading the rules and following them. Her programmes, imho, are a textbook how the programme should be constructed to get the maximum possible points.
I don't remember you questioning it either. We arent' talking about their right to skate at worlds, but whether we should be tortured by seeing that
Aha, but we all have the choice about whether to look or not. ISU is not North Korea. Yet.
I'm lost, too, but at least we won't be lost alone.
One thing that we all need to remember is that every sport needs to have some sort of financial support. Every sport is supported by the lower levels so that the higher levels can compete on the world stage. If you take away all the money put into figure skating from every county other than: US, Russia, Japan, China, Canada Who would be paying for the sport. Would the suppliers of equipment (blades, boots, tights, Zamboni...) be able to stay in business without all the other "little, less qualified nations". The old saying of do not bite the hand that feeds you come to mind. Don't forget the importance of every person in Figure Skating, right down to the learn to skater that just now steps on the ice, they too are helping to keep your sport alive.
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