Is there even the smallest chance of a clean Chan ever beating beaten

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Sep 22, 2013.

Any chance (no matter how small) of a clean Chan ever not winning

  1. yes

    33.3%
  2. no

    66.7%
  1. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Of course Chan did lose SC 2012 and the GPF 12/13 (nor did he win a single program at either event); Hanyu with three falls at Skate America 2012 scored 243.74. Chan with one fall at Skate Canada 2012 scored 243.43.
     
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  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I dont remember all the details but Chan had alot of mistakes at Skate Canada, besides that fall. More worth of mistakes over the two programs than Hanyu's 3 falls at Skate America which were his only mistakes in an otherwise flawless competition (which he still lost to one of the lower ranked Japanese IIRC).
     
  3. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think that by now the judges must have realized that Chan's error-laden wins are notorious and bad for skating. I think he is overdue for a PCS wakeup call. There is always the chance that he will skate easier programs this season or master all the difficulty WITH the jumps, but an Olympics win like his 2013 or even 2012 Worlds wins will make the hoopla around Evan's quadless win look like an evening at the ballet.

    If he does win, I just hope he does it convincingly (convincing fans and audiences as well as the judges).
     
  4. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    BTW, who do you guys think should win of a Chan with 2 falls or a clean Javier at the Olympics? My answer is Chan. I might not love to see another Urmanov-tic Olympic Champion (which is a good & charming skater and nice person but not a special skater, JMO).
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  5. Antiloquy

    Antiloquy New Member

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    Javier. At a competition of skaters at the same level, and with programs with the same content, the one who doesn't fall should win. If Javier falls and Patrick doesn't, the Patrick should win. If they both fall, then it should come down to other things. I can simply not believe that Chan's edge quality is so much better than every other extant male skater that it makes up for his often numerous mistakes. And I like Patrick.
     
  6. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Javi is hardly chopped liver, lol.
     
  7. Eyre

    Eyre New Member

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    Is there any competition giving medals to the highest PCS winner, the highest GOE winner, and the highest BV winner? If so, it might not always be Chan. But overall, Chan will be the winner. Sorry about it.:p
     
  8. bek

    bek Guest

    Walei, Patrick's Pcs were ridiculous. He had the highest PCS in the free skate and he was a mess.
     
  9. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Which program are you referring to?

    If its the worlds, and I was there, Denis Ten had a clean but uninspiring skate. Patrick had a flawed skate that was brilliant in parts.
    He deserved every bit of PCS he got!
    There is a big difference between seeing him on TV and live.
    Hanyu is another skater that looks very different live.
    Takahashi has the same charisma live or on TV.
     
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  10. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Mmm . . . I think Patrick deserved some of the PCS he got.
     
  11. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    Aside from messing up the elements which is scored through the TES, Patrick still demonstrated that he had all the qualities to get top PCS. Daisuke is close IMO so if Patrick falls and Daisuke lands his stuff Daisuke should come out on top if judging is fair. Denis Ten is really good too but he is not the best overall skater in the field right now to get top PCS if that's what you are implying should happen at Worlds.
     
  12. Andrushka

    Andrushka Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that :rolleyes:
     
  13. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I am sure there will many oxymorons in the forthcoming competitions. Let's start counting 'clean' programs.
     
  14. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    A Hanyu or Fernandez totally clean and inspired with 3 quads can beat a clean Chan with 2 quads if Chan is lacking expressiveness on that day. However, that is a big task and unlikely to happen.
     
  15. immoimeme

    immoimeme my posts r modded

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    Hell yes. I can think of 4 skaters who can beat chan , clean or dirty. You guys know who you are, go for it !!!!
     
  16. Antiloquy

    Antiloquy New Member

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    I've seen both Patrick and Yuzuru skate live (will check off Daisuke come Skate America - eeeeeeee!) and I disagree. Patrick's an amazingly powerful skater, but he simply doesn't move me in the way some of his contemporaries can, regardless of whether he's in front of my face or on a screen. I think Yuzuru looks stronger on TV, although I did see him at last SkAm where he completely melted down in the FP. I'll probably be freaking out too much to be able to fully appreciate Daisuke.
     
  17. valyrian

    valyrian New Member

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    I was so entranced with Daisuke live that I didn't notice til the replay that he had botched all of his jumping passes. The man is hypnotic. Javi is incredibly charming, and Patrick can be too when he has a character to play. Take Five wasn't the best program choreographically, but it was very cute when he skated it with feeling; Moon Dance is an absolute riot live.

    I think Javier and Yuzuru could beat a clean Patrick (by the slimmest of margins, mind). I think they have higher base TES.
     
  18. Li'Kitsu

    Li'Kitsu Active Member

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    Even if it's a little off topic, may I ask in what way different? :) Although, given how he was ill and had two injuries, well...
     
  19. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Your words: He simply doesnt move me.... This is your perception and mine is different!
     
  20. Emdee

    Emdee Well-Known Member

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    Daisuke has the ability to draw one into the program. He will make an amazing professional and show skater.
     
  21. Antiloquy

    Antiloquy New Member

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    Yeah, and by the same token it is your opinion that Patrick deserved the PCS he got at Worlds.
     
  22. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Right now, if the men's skaters perform as planned...

    The following men would have a higher base value than Chan: Aaron, Reynolds, Takahashi, Kozuka, Hanyu, Fernandez (and that's off the top of my head). Chan will obviously make up ground on TES and PCS but in a clean competition, I think Fernandez (who's personal best long program is staggeringly close to Chan's, and he had one more mistake) and Hanyu are really close to him and I genuinely believe that one of them could take it.
     
  23. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Active Member

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    I know it probably wont happen but I would love to see Chan skate cleanly at the 2010 Olympics and still finish 4th behind Takahashi, Fernandez, and Hanyu. It would be the sports finest hour if it happened, especialy after all the all time scandals and embarassments involving Chan the last 3 years.
     
  24. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    ^^ If Chan had skated cleanly in 2010 Olympics he would have medalled. If we call competition outcomes embarrassments and scandals if they are not to our desires, every competition will be scandalous.
     
  25. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    1. He finished 5th at the 2010 Games, but he didn't skate clean.

    2. I'm going to pretend you think it would be the sport's finest hour because that would mean that the three medalists skated out-of-their-skins amazing.
     
  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Not neccessarily if everyone else had skated cleanly. The consensus seems to be had everyone skated cleanly at the 2010 Olympics Chan would have slotted in anywhere from 3rd to 7th (with Takahashi and Lambiel the top two finishers). Chan was just one of many top skaters and contenders in 2010, not the immortal god who was 5 falls over the field like today (well he isnt really that in skating ability even today, the judges just decided out of nowhere he had become that).