Interesting comment by Slipchuk during CTV/TSN interview today

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by AragornElessar, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    Did anyone else see the interview done by both Tracy and Rod w/Michael Slipchuk after the Men's FS? He was asked about the make up about the World Team and that it looked pretty straightforward for the most part, but there were a couple of questions still to be answered. One of those obviously is in Dance, as Piper and Paul can't skate internationally, so they have a spot to fill there. It was the second part of his answer that got my antennae up though.

    He mentioned that there's some question of who to send in Ladies!! He also mentioned they might just defer the choice until after 4CC and see what ends up happening there.

    Interesting. At least I thought so. Would they really do that? I mean...I know it was pretty tight between Amelie and Cynthia, but Amelie's the one that put out the programs to win Canadians and is the new Champion. As the protocols have always gone, when only one spot is open, the Champion goes.

    What do the rest of you think? I honestly don't know what to think really.
     
  2. victorskid

    victorskid Skating supporter

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    This is not unprecedented. It happened between Annie Bellemare & Nicole Watt (about 7 years ago).

    I understood exactly what Michael was referring to - Amelie missed both her toe jumps in the FS; neither girl skated "lights out". They are giving them a chance to show what they can do before international judges at 4 Continents before deciding who to send to Worlds.
     
  3. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    I think it makes a mockery out of having a national championship if you don't have your national champion represent you at worlds.. moreover I think the same rules should apply for all - if cynthia had won we would not be having this discussion.. moreover Amelie has beaten Cynthia 3 out of 3 times this season.. yes I know Amelie didn't have a great skate - but what does that say about Cynthia if a crappy skate by Amelie didn't beat our defending national champ? I know Cynthia is with Brian now.. and he has a lot of influence with Skate Canada - but leaves a sour taste in my mouth.. :( As someone in an another thread asked - what happens if our 4th place skater beats both Cynthia and Amelie - will she go to worlds??
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  4. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I have always thought this and always will. The skaters that prove themselves at Nationals (a pressure event) deserve to go to Worlds (or Olys, whatever). And if the winner is less than stellar, that's too bad... maybe everyone else should have risen to the occasion and skated better when it counted.

    Rant over. :)
     
  5. Canadask8er

    Canadask8er New Member

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    I think it's a great decision. We do not want to end up not having a spot at the Olympics again and head back in the same direction as the late 90's. We had great sucess with consistent top 10 finishes in the 2000's and then with Joannie Rochette.

    A lot of other countries do the same thing... i.e. with Europeans.

    Cynthia had a great skate in the long program! I agree she has been very inconsistent in the past and has not lived up to her true potential. Amelie deserves her chance as well. And in an interview she was even unsure if she would be named to the World team.

    Good luck to both ladies at 4cc!!!
     
  6. AragornElessar

    AragornElessar Well-Known Member

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    I'd forgotten about Annie and Nicole and Skate Canada using 4CC as a skate off for the spot. Thanks for reminding me.

    Second...While I understand why they're considering this, I have to also agree w/4rkids. If they're going to use 4CC whenever there's a situation such as this, then why bother using Canadians to set the World Team. It's also one hell of a slap in the face to Amelie. To see her reaction to winning and then hearing her talk about getting to skate at Worlds as the Champion yesterday to hearing what Slipper said today...I can't imagine how Amelie's feeling right now.
     
  7. vmfan

    vmfan New Member

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    I do feel the national champ deserves it in most cases, but really lacoste did not skate that great, not that the other option is any better. Is it fair, maybe not but i am looking forward to seeing which of the two skate better at 4cc with the pressure on.
     
  8. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Well, I'm rooting for Najarro to be the ranking Canadian lady at 4CC, with Amelie second and Cynthia third, just for the sheer humour value
     
  9. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    How will that look at Worlds if we send our 4th place skater from nationals :lol: But I'm sure if that happens (Najarro wins) the rules will change again :rolleyes:
     
  10. bek

    bek Guest

    That would be hilarious. I kind of get what Skate Canada is seeing but it is unfair to Amelie. She's beaten Cynthia every time they faced each other.
     
  11. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Ben Ferreira skate off with Sandhu one year at 4CC? Or am I dreaming...
     
  12. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Yes he did, in 2000. Ben beat Sandhu at 4CC and went to worlds.

    I love Amelie and want to see her at Worlds, but I think waiting until 4CC is the right decision. I hope Amelie skates great there and gets the spot. But if she doesn't skate well and Cynthia does, I want Skate Canada to have the option to send Cynthia to Worlds...ultimately, I want the best skater at Worlds who has the best chance at a good finish.
     
  13. ltnskater

    ltnskater Active Member

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    If Amelie had a better GP season, perhaps making the GPF something like that, there would be no question that she would go after winning the national championships. But simply beating Cynthia this season at different competitions, and then winning nationals with a skate like that, uh... no.

    To me, Cynthia, should have won the long by more, and won overall, but that is for another time, Skate Canada knows the international judges would still put Cynthia ahead of Amelie barring the disasters Cynthia has had this season, and that is probably one of the reasons why they are waiting until 4CC to decide.

    At the same time, it is only fair that had Cynthia also won with a subpar performance at nationals, that they would have also waited until 4CC as well, but I doubt that this would have happened if the situation was reversed.

    In this case however, I feel they are making the right decision to wait until after 4CC to set their ladies world team.

    I second that Najarro placing ahead of the other Canadian ladies at 4CC, that would be funny, and the funniest thing is, it is certainly possible too! (Imagine that, the 4th place skater from nationals going to worlds)
     
  14. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    It is a huge slap in the face to poor Amelie. As someone pointed out, Amelie has proven ALL SEASON that she is a more dependable than Cynthia. She has won all 3 meetings. This wasn't a fluke. If Amelie beats Cynthia at 4CC will they decide to have another skate off? What does she have to do to get a spot, start landing 4lutzes?
     
  15. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    Amelie's margin of victory was less than 2 points over Cynthia, so it wasn't exactly a convincing win. Furthermore, Lacoste didn't even win either segment.

    Perhaps Skate Canada isn't completely convinced to send Amelie because she only landed 3 triple loops and 2 triple salchows combined in both segments? Maybe if she had landed (or at least fully rotated) a 3 lutz/flip, it would have been a more clear decision?
     
  16. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    The worst part is in yesterday's Globe and Mail (before the FS) there was a comment from Mike saying that if Katelyn Osmond won, she would go to worlds if she and her coach thought she was ready. Yet now he's saying that a woman who has been the best Canadian internationally AND has Worlds experience shouldn't go?

    Personally I don't think Cynthia should go, and it would be better for her to spend more time getting used to her new coach and preparing for next year, instead of going to Worlds. Amelie has more than proven herself this season... more than Katelyn has for sure!
     
  17. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention that, having won nationals and therefore believed she was going to worlds and then instead being told by her federation "yes, you won, and you won every meeting between you and the second place skater this year but we really want one more chance to send someone else" could be a bit disheartening for Amelie and potentially affect her performance at 4CC.
     
    4rkidz and (deleted member) like this.
  18. 4rkidz

    4rkidz plotting, planning and travelling

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    that was the main reason I have a major problem with this - because skate canada is saying - hey a 16 year old with no international experience - who landed a triple triple for the first time - gets a ticket to worlds if she wins - but different rules for Amelie (who by the way landed a triple triple a few years ago too).. we forget that these are Canadian women who have issues with their mental strength - its not about landing the jumps - they can do them in practice - but this isn't helping their confidence by having different rules for different skaters - if Slipchuck had been quiet about Osmond and perhaps said instead said they were thinking of doing a skate off - I would have no issue with this at all - of course I want the best skater at Worlds- but sometimes the Principle and Ethics is far more important - this lacks transparency - it should be the same rules for all..:soapbox:
     
  19. rhymer

    rhymer New Member

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    I'm very happy that Amelie reached her goal of National champion but everytime I watch that program I just don't see how it compares on the world stage. It seems like a really good junior program to me. Cynthia has proven herself capable of being top 5 in the world. To be realistic if they want 2 spots next year Cynthia has the better chance of making that happen. Let us all remember back to 1996 when J-Slow beat Josee and they sent the champion...really!?! Josee would have been in the top 10 for sure and probably would have stayed in til Nagano completely rewriting the Canadian ladies history of the mid to late 1990's. I think they have learned from their mistake. Go with the better bet instead of taking their chances. GO CYNTHIA!!!!
     
  20. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention the uproar when there was no 4CC faceoff back in 06 between Buttle and Ferreira. Buttle won the event (in usual, uhm, controversial way) while Ferriera was something like 125th.
     
  21. nlyoung

    nlyoung Active Member

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    And if I recall correctly, he was suffering from the aftermath of food poisoning at that championship...
     
  22. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Hm, good point.

    At this point I don't have faith in either Cynthia or Amelie to do well at Worlds.

    Skate Canada should be begging and pleading Joannie Rochette to come back to competition next year.
     
  23. Skate Talker

    Skate Talker Replaced the display under my name

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    And who knows but this low point may have been the best motivation possible for Jeff who, as we all know, WON a World Championship.

    Though I agree I thought it sucked big time as a decision by Skate Canada. How could they leave my wonderful Jeff off the World team when he had been so successful all year to that point? But just saying, who knows how Jeff's skating history might have been different.
     
  24. ltnskater

    ltnskater Active Member

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    Agreed! But that would be completely unfair to Joannie to be pressured back into competing if that is not what she wants to do. But I see entirely where you are coming from, if there is any hope of Joannie coming back, it should be on her own terms and not by Skate Canada pressuring her to (Therefore, I do agree with your begging and pleading LOL :p)

    In regards to how the season played out, I think the smarter thing to do was to have said BEFORE the national championships, we are having a skate-off at 4CC no matter what. It does create certain other problems, of course, but in terms of being fair and who is the best lady to send, that would have been the right option. (And at that time, they had no idea Kaetlyn would win the short which made Slipchuk open his big mouth :p)
     
  25. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    re: Buttle vs. Ferreira in 2004,

    It was an interesting decision considering that Jeff had qualified for the GPF (even though he had to withdraw). Skate Canada must have not been confident that a Sandhu/Buttle combination would have garnered 3 Worlds spots for 2005, therefore didn't bother with a skate-off scenario at 4CC.

    re: Bellemare vs. Watt in 2001,

    Skate Canada must have thought that a Robinson + Bellemare combination was the best bet to preserve 2 spots for 2002 Olympics (which didn't happen), therefore opted for the 4CC scenario in that case.


    In this instance for Lacoste vs. Phaneuf, Skate Canada must think that Cynthia is the best bet for Canada to get back to 2 spots for London Worlds in 2013...it's hard to find any other reasoning..
     
  26. luna_skater

    luna_skater Well-Known Member

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    And in my opinion, they're right.

    Osmond will benefit far more from the chance to go to Junior Worlds and build confidence internationally. Cynthia has shown a great degree of improvement this year, and I think Skate Canada is putting a lot of trust in Brian's and Tracy's abilities as coaches. Lacoste needs to step it up in terms of choreography to make an impact at Worlds, and the fact she popped two key jumps at Nationals does not bode well. Lacoste put pressure on herself to do well at Nationals, but whoever goes to Worlds has the pressure of Skate Canada on them to secure two spots for next year. Phaneuf has more maturity and confidence to be able to handle that, especially with the support team she has in place right now. If anyone knows about pressure, it's Brian Orser.
     
  27. Andora

    Andora Well-Known Member

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    Lacoste did no favours by not landing a lutz last week, either.
     
  28. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Lacoste would likely not make top ten no matter how well she would skate at Worlds. And if Phaneuf was her consistent mess she would also likely fall out of top ten. But if Phaneuf (semi) delivered there would be a chance she would make top ten and regain Canada's second ladies spot.

    It's reasonable for them to have more faith in Phaneuf. It's the Flatt vs Nagasu debate for 2011 US National isn't it.
     
  29. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Because Phaneuf handles pressure so very well? :lol:

    And the notion that a skater would be picked because of who their coaches are is, imo, terrible.

    Skate Canada would have done everyone a favor if they'd announced this plan before the ladies competition had begun. The way it was handled is a slap in the face to Lacoste, and she didn't deserve that. It isn't her fault that Phaneuf bombed the short, and yet it seems that Skate Canada is doing everything possible for Phaneuf to get the ticket to Worlds. (And if Phaneuf skates and SP like that one at Worlds, I guess it is possible that she doesn't even make the cut for the LP.)
     
  30. Marilou

    Marilou New Member

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    As I posted in the Canadain Championships forum:

    Skate Canada ALWAYS reserves the right to determine who goes to Worlds. A skate off has been used in the past and the skaters are aware of this. So, it really should not come as a surprise to anyone if they decide to exercise that right. While it may be disappointing for Amelie, she has the same chance to go out and skate well at 4Cs that Cynthia has. Personally, I don't have a lot of faith in either woman at this point, but Skate Canada has to do what it can to maximize spots for the Olymipics.

    I think the biggest concern with Amelie has to be the fact that she only appears to be able to land 2 jumps consistantly. That is just not going to cut it internationally. Her results, while better than Cynthia's on the GP this year, were not that much better. And Cynthia does have some decent international results in the past. I don't see what is wrong with telling both of them that in order to determine who will to go to Worlds, Skate Canada needs to see more. Let's see which of them has the competitive fire needed, because it's only going to get tougher from here.