In how many more Olympics beyond '88 could Boitano have medalled....

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by olympic, Jul 10, 2010.

  1. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,078
    ..with that set of performances in '88, and where on the podium would he have been - in '92? '94? '98? anywhere beyond that?

    Just curious. I rewatched his '88 performance out of boredom and was in awe of his skating skills and technical abilities - big 3x's with one in combo, huge 'tano Lutz, 3f-3t late in the program, those death drops, spread eagles, artistry.

    I think he could've won '92 against Petrenko and against Urmanov in '94. The jump combos du jour in the early '90s were 3x-3t but I think he could've made up for that in every other area. Any chance for the podium with those performances in '98 against Kulik, Stojko, Candeloro, Eldredge? I don't recall anyone besides Kulik doing a Quad. How about Quad city in '02? - probably not
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,564
    92- would have won easily. The big guns all skated poorly for their standards (Wylie was not one of the big guns).

    94- hmmm not sure. Should have won, but the judges loved Urmanov's artistry and probably liked it more than Boitano's so who knows. Would have beaten Stojko whose artistry was even less liked by judges.

    98- Would have won silver. A quadless Stojko is very beatable as much as I admired his incredibly gutsy performance and even the performance level was subpar for him due to injury, while Candelero really lucked out to medal this year. Eldredge of course bombed. May have even had a chance of winning since he was a better skater than Kulik at this point outside of Kulik's quad toe but doubtful as the judges probably prefer Kulik's artistry too.

    2002- No chance probably. Maybe a silver or bronze if the judges went for all around looked past the quad mania and focused on all around quality jumping and skating to a degree. Plushenko made a huge error in the SP and was well well off in the LP, and Goebel wasnt anything to write home about outside the quads. Would depend on the stance the judges took.

    2006- silver was possible/probable given all the mistakes of Lambiel and Buttle, and in addition to the mistakes Buttle himself had no quad (other then the attempt he fell on) and Lambiel no triple axel.

    2010- I think he would have won, atleast I would have put him 1st.
     
  3. MOIJTO

    MOIJTO Banned Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,173
    His best shot for Gold would have been 92. 94 possibly an outside chance but most likely silver. 98, bronze and an outside chance for silver and 2002 it would have been embarrassing. 2006 and 2010 he is what 47? No way!
     
  4. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    715
    in 1992, he would have definitely won.

    1994- win by a slight margin. Technically his program was a tad harder than Urmanov's, and his slight 2-footed 3Axel vs. Urmanov's huge step out on flip would have guaranteed him a higher first mark. Re second mark- i think this is up to the judges taste. Both men had great moves in the field, great usage of one footed turns, and amazing ice coverage. I would probably have given Boitano 1st due to the strength of his transitions, variety of spins, and trademark moves at the end of the program- spread eagle to die for, and the fabulous Russian splits. Ended the program off with more of a bang, imo.

    1998- silver, next to the flawless Kulik who had a harder program. Other than Kulik, the rest of the men just did not deliver (Eldredge, Yagudin, Stojko)

    2002- bronze (?) because I think Plushenko's attempt at the most difficult men's program would have given him an edge. Also, Plushenko's basics were also very good at the time, as good as Brian's. Even his Biellman spin was rather impressive :eek:

    2006-silver.

    2010-gold. (considering he was able to add more complexity, program-wise in his LP).
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,564
    Yeah I am pretty sure the only Olympics he wouldnt have won atleast silver with the same performance would have been 2002. Winning silver in 98 wouldnt have been hard. The only reason Stojko won silver with that performance was Eldredge bombing his performance, he even lost to Candelero in the long program.
     
  6. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,078
    I see BB winning '92 and '94, getting a silver against a quadless Stojko and easily passing Candeloro and Eldredge bombing the LP in '98, but don't see him winning against Kulik with a quad and a 3x-3t.

    Unfortunately, I don't see him on the podium in '02 due to Quad-mania w/ 3 quads from Goebel, the performance of the last 2 decades from Yagudin, and Plushenko with one of the most ambitious performances. Although Plushenko did fall in the SP but still only went down to 4th I believe, so Plush probably would've controlled his own destiny vs. Boitano

    '06 and '10 were too CoP oriented for BB's '88 performances IMO. Plushenko and Lambiel with his artistry, spins and Quad were better. But, in '06 Buttle was ragged for the Bronze and had nothing harder than a 3x even with incredible CoP capabilities. Makes you wonder how BB could've been a threat that far into the future!

    Still, I think it is a testament to how his [and Orser's] performances have held up over time that BB '88 could've won and/or been on the podium thru the next decade and further....
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  7. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,499
    1992 - Gold
    1994 - Gold
    1998 - Silver
    2002 - not sure it would have medalled
    2006 and 2010 are hard to decide. Enough to medal in term of jumps, but CoP is more than jumps.
     
  8. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,499
    If we just talk about the performances as skated in 1988, there's no problem with age. ;)
     
  9. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    Considering he only did a 2flip as the solo jump in the sp, I doubt he would remain in title contention even in 1992 when the solo jump can be a triple, let alone subsequent years when the quad was allowed.

    The lp however can probably be very competitive for top 3 in all subsequent Olympics mens lps.

    1992 - 1st
    1994 - 1st even though I love Urmanov
    1998 - 2nd
    2002 - 3rd
    2006 - 2nd
    2010 - 2nd
     
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,564
    He did only a 2flip as his solo jump in the SP since that was the rule at the time. It would have been ridiculously easy for Boitano to do a triple lutz out of footwork, triple flip- triple toe combination, and triple axel for his SP jumps back in 1988 if the rules allowed it.
     
  11. mmscfdcsu

    mmscfdcsu Skating Pairs with Drew

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    12,170
    As many as he wanted! :p Boitano is skate god for life. He just kept getting better and better as a Pro.
     
  12. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    9,942
    Once Brian started to lose to Browning then his performances didn't seem so special anymore. I think by that time Brian's creativity was starting to get stale anyway. It was looking to be the same old, same old, especially when stacked against Browning's tremendous versatility and even Wylie's unbeatable passion on the ice.
     
  13. mmscfdcsu

    mmscfdcsu Skating Pairs with Drew

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    12,170
    In your opinion. However, in my opinion, nothing compares to the speed and pure skating ability of Boitano. And those edges!!!:eek:
     
  14. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,128
    1992 I can't remember, so I can't say there. I recently rewatched 1994 performances, and I think he could have got the gold there with his 1988 performances, unless the judges rewarded Urmanov a little too much for being Soviet. In 1998 he would have ended up with the silver or bronze, I think, probably the bronze. Stojko's jump content was still probably better than Boitano 1988, even though I can't remember exactly what jumps Stojko did that particular night. In 2002 I don't think Boitano would have medalled at all, because judges were ALL about jumps in 2002, and Yagudin, Goebel and Plushenko all had the big tricks. In 2006 Boitano maybe could have got bronze or silver. I can't remember what Lambiel and Buttle actually did, but I remember that they weren't at their best. He could never have beat Plushenko 2006 though! I disagree with people that Boitano would have won the gold in 2010. I would put him more like bronze, if that. Even though COP isn't all about jumps, his jump content still probably would have been too low to get enough points to put him past Lysacek, Plushenko, or even Takahashi. IIRC, his jump content was more similar to Patrick Chan's, who of course was 5th in Van.
     
  15. MOIJTO

    MOIJTO Banned Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,173
    I stand by my opinion age or not.
     
  16. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    :rolleyes: Would it have been ridiculously easy for Kwan to land a 3flip?

    The original poster said with the same set of performances.
     
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,564
    It isnt practical to hold short program rules and restrictions (such as being REQUIRED to do a simple double flip as one of your jumps in the short program) in place at the time against a time though, rather then what their ability even at the time was to actually do. :shuffle:

    And Boitano is a much stronger jumper than Kwan ever was. He probably has the best triple lutz and triple flip EVER for a man. I cant think of anyone who does those jumps better.
     
  18. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,882
    With his 1988 performance Boitano would have had

    - gold medal in 1992
    - silver medal in 1994
    - silver medal in 1998
     
  19. Zokko!

    Zokko! Comansnala?

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    2,314
    1992 - Gold
    1994 - Silver
    1998 - Silver
    2002 - Bronze
    2006 - Silver
    2010 - Gold, and by a landslide .... :p
     
  20. Rex

    Rex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    25,887
    Amen. I love watching his SP and LP from his 87-88 season. And his pro stuff was amazing. He and Wylie were the main reasons I loved the pro comps so much.
     
  21. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    12,499
    The quality of his skating was amazing. Especially the precision of each move, and the deep edges. WOW, one of the best ever.
     
  22. Marc2000

    Marc2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    11
    I know the transititions, footwork and ugly spin positions are quite a bit more difficult in 2010, but it is kind of sad that we can even debate that BB could have won gold over 20 years later. I think the jump conent between EL's 2010 program and BB's 1988 program are almost identical.
     
  23. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,078
    Well, that's a bit much....
     
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,564
    If Boitano were to tweak his program to suit COP it probably would have been. Then again I am not sure if things like overly complex spins with multiple position changes, overly complex footwork, or overly complex choreography were exactly his thing or not. Evan is comfortable doing all those things. Still in terms of sheer quality and perfection of jumping, skating, and everything else he beats Lysacek hands down on everything IMHO and the jump content is virtually the same.
     
  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    7,078
    In fairness, for pure quality of jumps and edges, I think that BB would beat almost everybody :)
     
  26. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    Boitano's spins were average at best. Not only would his 1988 spins be inadequate in 2010 (in both quality and difficulty) it is also very unlikely that he would be able to COP-whore his spins. Plushenko couldn't and he was a better spinner than Boitano.
     
  27. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    Since when is this game practical? :p He probably would have been able to do a 3axel, 3flip3toe and 3lutz in the short program if he was allowed to, but the fact is he didn't. And you never know if he would have a freak fall if he did attempt the harder jumps. He did 2 foot the 2nd 3axel in the long program. If that alone happened in the short in 2010 he would have been pulled way back.

    Urmanov, Kulik, Pliuta, VDP, Lysacek, Yuna Kim... just to name a few.

    But that's not the point. Ito was a better jump than Yamaguchi but Yamaguchi landed 3 3lutzes in Albertville but Ito landed none.
     
  28. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,564
    Plushenko was clearly past his prime in Vancouver, and still would have won if he had landed 1 of about 5 off jumps a bit better, or tweaked one minor thing about his jump layout. His spins in 2006 were good enough to allow him to win the Olympics by about 30 points, despite that they werent the best. And Plushenko is absolutely not a better spinner than Boitano IMO.
     
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,564
    Wrong. None of those skaters have a better triple flip or triple lutz than Boitano. The one who comes closest would be Kulik. And comparing a women to one of the best mens jumpers of all time, seriously. The only one you can do that for is Ito.
     
  30. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,444
    So what's your point? Boitano wouldn't have done a much harder combination than Lysacek and probably wouldn't have received ridiculous PCS due to politiks.

    A moot point since he outjumped everyone by about 53 miles. It was obviously NOT his spins that won him the Olympics. (what were you watching?)

    He was never able to hold his positions or carry enough speed in combinations. Plushenko was clearly a faster and more centered spinner.