If you turned the music off .....

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Aussie Willy, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    ... could you still tell what they are skating to? Or are they using the music at all?

    This clip prompted my to start this thread.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g

    After the other discussion on the judging system, I also think this is also relevant.

    Anyway the reason why I posted was I watched this clip without the sound. Even without the costume, this is a fantastic example of a the skater fully using the music and give a very clear impression about what they are doing to it. And you get a clear picture of the type of music as well.

    Music is the starting point for any program. I am always disappointed to see skaters skating through the music as if it doesn't matter and has no bearing on their performance. Or the choreography has very little relationship to the music.
     
  2. naan

    naan New Member

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    ^ Love it! One of my all time favorite programs! :swoon: It's my figure skating first love :D Feel nostalgic about the 90s...
     
  3. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    yes, I think there are to many skaters skating through the music and not to the music. And that should the judges take in account in the interpretation.
    Why can't they do it?
    You have a god point
     
  4. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Someone on Youtube played Kwan's 03 program to her 04 and there was NO difference. It was stunning how she did the same jump layout, same arm moves, and that whole arms to sorta FW into the last 3lutz was basically identical to everything she did beginning in 99. I'ts unfortunately not on YT anymore, too bad. It really showed that she wasn't quite an artiste anymore, just doing the same thing over and over and over and over. And who can blame her, it won her all those titles. She was smart, I just suppose her audience and the judges just weren't quite so...
     
  5. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well she was quite badly injured at the time so I suppose her focus was different then. She skated much better to the music in short programs when there were less jumps - Feeling Begins and Spartacus etc.
     
  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a fan, at all, of Oksana Baiul, but this program is amazing each time I watch it.
    The problem without the sound is that preparations to jumps seem longer.
    And here, you really don't understand why she looks so happy after her bad 3Lz combo. LOL
     
  7. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    I actually admire this. Many Russian (Federation) skaters do an awesome job of selling their programs regardless of how the technical goes. If you pick up a Baiul skate 2/3rds of way through you have no clue if they have botched or nailed everything. That's how it should be. Sell...sell...sell!

    I used to hate that from a lot of our Canadian entries. Sandhu and the Wirtzes come quickly to mind...where they skate the program with beeatch face if they miss the first element.
     
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Oksana was a performer and she truly loved being on the ice, I think. In one of her early pro competitions, she fell twice during her routine, but she never gave up on the performance. I think it's a great quality. I saw Ashley Wagner and Akiko do something similar at the recent GPF, after their falls. From the way they both smiled at the end, you would have thought they nailed everything. I respected that.
     
  9. Simone411

    Simone411 Just Flip-Flopping Around

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    I always loved that particular program of Oksana's. Her feelings, emotions made that program breathtaking.

    Another program that was simply breathtaking. All the emotions, feelings for the music were there. It was exactly like the music was made especially for Michelle:

    Lyra Angelica
     
  10. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    The costume and the choreo and the movements do give a sense of the music. Oksana was determined, and she definitely sold the program, so much so that the flaws were generally overlooked.

    Oksana always had lovely lines, beautiful extension and gorgeous presentation skills. She was very precocious artistically, and she always looked beautiful in the air on her jumps, but the landings (especially on combo jumps) were often flawed (she had a tendency for two-footing). I suppose she never fully developed a flawless jump technique. She likely needed more time to improve that aspect of her skating, but the judges felt it was important to prematurely reward her with the Olympic gold medal in 1994. But I guess who knows whether she would have remained hungry enough to stick with the sport for another four years had she won silver in 1994.
     
  11. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I too loved Oksana's SP. I wonder how effective it would be if she had to adhere to all the COP rules?
     
  12. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    That's why skaters don't dare to use this music after Michelle. Wow, that is magical, and will be for ages:swoon:
     
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  13. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I love this SP by Oksana. She skated so well to the music, her arm positions were gorgeous, and the slight two foot on the 3Lutz did not spoil it for me. This is one of my favorite SPs by any singles skater.
     
  14. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Though I think Caro is a very brilliant skater, her programs look similar almost always. The reason I think her artistry(or musicality) is overrated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Even Kwan fans admit that the layout of Aranjuez and Tosca were similar. I'd blame it on Kwan headed toward a downhill trajectory, increasingly bothersome hip, fighting for jump consistency, and Nikolai Morosov's lack of creativity. Plus, at that time, I felt every skater in the ladies division were repeating elements and became predictable with their layout.

    However, the musical interpretations were different and required different moods for Kwan to convey. Admittedly, those two aren't my favorite routines from her, but Kwan did have some great performances with them unlike Bolero. Haters gonna hate, but there's a reason why the judges and audience "fell" for both routines.

    BTW, nice way to insult people's intelligences Alex Forrest with this:

     
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  16. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    At least NOT yet, anyway (HOPEFULLY NEVER). Using MK music (or music that MK used) etc., has been a trend in recent years.
     
  17. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Here are two SPs of Kostners from different years. I would suggest take into account that are both SPs so the elements do take up a lot of the program content and ignore any errors. However watch them without the music on and then look at the types of expression that she is conveying for both programs. Is there a difference between the two? And could you also tell if she actually skating to a piece of music by the moves she is putting in? I have my opinions but I would be interested in reading others before I comment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs3u8Fe1Vqk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7e8jn_QEZA
     
  18. modern_muslimah

    modern_muslimah Thinking of witty user title and coming up blank

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    To my untrained eyes, those two programs look different. She places the elements in different places. Also, in the earlier program at 2009 Euros, she telegraphs her combo and the aborted jump. In the program from last year's world, she doesn't telegraph her jumps and they seem to flow into the program. For her 2009 program, I get the sense from the costume and the music selection that she was suppose to be skating to a Spanish themed but I couldn't really tell from her movements. Since last year's SP was to Shostakovich, I think it would be hard to get a sense that she was skating to it just from her movement. However, her movements do have a edginess that matches the music.
     
  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. :) Also in the 2009 program the spiral sequence takes up a lot of the program as well and makes it really difficult to do anything really special that defines the program or enhances the type of music.
     
  20. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    This is the reason why I was not impressed by her Shostakovich performance (except great SS).
    Caro in the program was a typical Caro. There was not a true interpretation for Shostakovich.
    I just thought that Lori found out a Perfect music for Caro.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
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  21. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    All I know is that I couldn't stand Caro at all prior to the 2011-2012 season (with exceptions of course like her 2007 SP). I can't believe the same skater who made me sick to my stomach at 2008 Worlds LP would have me become a fan during the 2012 Worlds LP.
     
  22. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what is meant to be a true interpretation for Shostokovich (is there such a thing?). I have never seen a program to that music before. To me Kostner put her own stamp on it and created something that was unique and individual. There are some moments in that program that were amazing - really wonderful nuances. Just goes to show how subjective impressions can be.
     
  23. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  24. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    Major DITTO!! I can now appreciate her great skating. Was 2008 when she won the silver when everyone in the building though Nakano won? That always left a very bad taste in my mouth. At least seeing a watered down Kostner skate with maturity and presentation made me like her better.
     
  25. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well IMO she didn't really begin to show maturity and refinement until 2010, and it was her consistency in 2011 and 2012 that made her performance stands out so much.
     
  26. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I can't even re-watch the 2008 Ladies LP. It makes my blood boil and I think a lot of my resentment towards COP stem from that competition.
     
  27. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    Sasha's 2002 Olys, 2004 Worlds, and 2006 Olympics SP, and her 2006 Olympics LP. All very different, all absolutely wonderful interpretations of the music.
     
  28. IceDanceFan1

    IceDanceFan1 New Member

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    I agree, and I think all skaters should video their programs and watch them with the sound off during their program analysis!
     
  29. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    ITA, Ita, ita. :hat1:
     
  30. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    That is not such a bad idea.