I got engaged! Unfortunately....

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by woodstock, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. woodstock

    woodstock New Member

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    My fiance has all the paperwork, I refuse to snoop in his house. And right up until the ring fell apart on my finger he very much loved the ring and was pretty touchy to any negative commentary from me. And we all know I tried to hint that it wasn't good for an engagement ring, he just wasn't hearing it. Should I have thrown it back in his face while he was still on one knee? He's stubborn, I know it, I was trying to be delicate to him about a very sensitive issue.

    Only TODAY did he finally tell me cost when I pushed it, he got very bristly when I asked further. (And I was horrified to find out that he spent that much money. Like I posted previously, I had marked a SET for him to see that was under $2000- so those insinuating that I only now value it for money, you're dead wrong, just note how I mentioned sentimental value prior to todays posts for proof)

    Littman refuses to tell me anything when I ask because only his name is on the paperwork. Shall I go grind the knife deeper into his ego right now and ask for the papers? I'm trying to be respectful to his feelings. A lot of you seem to think that every comment here I'm saying to him, when I'm keeping most of my thoughts vented on here only. And yes, I'm venting anonymously on here because to full out on him would be cruel. He proudly bought me an engagement ring that he erroneously thought was the best ring and I would love it deeply. It took him four weeks to realize its completely innapropriate for daily wear. Don't think he wasn't upset when it broke already too. I'm doing my best to keep his emotional damage minimal. (And after the first week venting here and mentioning practicalities to him, until it broke, I kept my mouth shut about this ring, both here and in real life).

    To the supportive posters with good wishes and helpful information and opinions, I thank you. As for the others....

    THIS IS ABOUT THE JEWELERY,NOT MY RELATIONSHIP! I'd appreciate all posters keep this topic to the jewlery and not mention marriage counseling or any other crap like that. I find it offensive and insulting and find those making such comments no better than the jerks that called my ring cheap right to my face. No one is running for the hills. I didn't even fling the ring back in his face when he was still on one knee, AS SOME WOMEN APPARENTLY HAVE as mentioned in other prior posts. In fact, I may forgo an engagement ring entirely since it's just not worth hurting his feelings further. I love him, and I will marry him with or without a ring. I'm just sad and upset right now because something so special as our ring is kind of crappy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
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  2. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea. (But it will never happen since you care a lot about what other people think, and you've made it clear to your fiance that you want a better/different ring.)

    Don't kid yourself that this is about jewellery and not your relationship. It has affected your relationship. You actually insult your fiance quite a lot in the above post. You didn't even fling the ring back in his face? Do you expect credit for that? Well done for not flinging the ring in your fiance's face while he was on his knee proposing to you! Only it took him four weeks to realise it was completely inappropriate for daily wear? :rolleyes:

    woodstock, you wore the ring for four weeks. If you thought it was completely inappropriate for daily wear, why wear it and not return it then? You didn't have as much attachment to it, you didn't like it, but you wouldn't return it and instead chose to wear a ring you thought was completely inappropriate (not to mention sometimes hurt you and was according to you also inappropriate for work) for daily wear, every day. Did you want so much to prove it to your fiance that you were right, and it was inappropriate? Because you've done that now, and you STILL can't decide what you want to do.

    ETA: You don't need to be a customer to ask about policy. Simply ask if resizing voids their refund policy (when bought with a store card, if that's how he paid). Pretty easy, really.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
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  3. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    And what--you want a prize for that? Who WOULD do that?

    If your fiance is feeling embarrassed and humiliated (your words, not mine), then I think it's pretty clear you've been communicating a lot more of your true feelings on the matter than you realize. When people adopt passive-aggressive approaches to communication rather than being direct (which is what you've described in your communications to him about the ring), that usually is the result.

    If he's feeling embarrassed and humiliated, it's because you've communicated that to him whether you realize it or not.

    Instead of blaming your family, Littman's, your fiance, insensitive coworkers, and anyone else I may have forgotten, you need to look in the mirror and own up to your role in all this, which IMO is where it all starts and ends--with YOU. What should have been a simple issue (you either like the ring or you don't, and if you don't, you say that and return the ring) has been turned into one dramafest after another--all at your fiance's expense. Your seeming inability to take any personal responsibility for all this is troubling, and may be why some are suggesting counseling.
     
  4. woodstock

    woodstock New Member

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    angelskates and agalisgv, when you can tell me how many years you've been successfully married, without a single issue, then you can tell me how behave in my relationship. Try rereading the last paragraph in my previous post.
     
  5. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, pre-marital counseling isn't the worst idea in the world for anyone. You really want to make sure you're on the same page about important unromantic things like finances and kids. You cannot tiptoe around such issues. I'm considering it for us and we've NEVER had a problem communicating. Ever. I never shy away from touchy issues, and he's never embarrassed or terse with me when I'm honest with him. I'm just concerned we may have missed something along the way.

    IMO it isn't about the ring. At all. I'm more concerned about both your hesitations about communicating openly (and I mean TRULY open) than what you/he thinks about a bauble.

    Exactly. You can call as an anonymous customer and ask. It's really all about being resourceful. And a little devious at times. ;)

    To be honest, I'm not really sure why you're so torn about this. You know your true feelings already - it's time to make a plan of action instead of hemming and hawing and drawing out the drama. When you get down to it, it's really just a bauble, and IMO not worth this much stress.
     
  6. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    I'm a little horrified at the cruel personal remarks. If you are bored with woodstock's posts there is an easy solution for that. I'm not sure how anyone thinks they are qualified to tell an internet acquaintance that she needs any kind of counseling, esp when none of them are psychiatrists or psychologists.
     
  7. woodstock

    woodstock New Member

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    Had my fiance been willing and open, I would have been returning the ring on December 26th. Plain and simple fact, he wasn't. How badly does one crap on their fiance to force a return right after the engagement? It wasn't worth it enough for me at the time to push the issue. Plain and simple. I didn't want our very first argument to happen right after our engagement over a ring. Burn me at the stake for not completely gutting him with blatant honesty during a moment of pride and joy.

    Time passed, I grew to like the ring and love the idea of how to adapt a wedding band to it. In fact, I still like the idea, I'll be sad to let it go. Unfortunately, the ring still has the comfort/durability issues that it had all along.

    Now that it broke, my fiance is finally willing to return it. The man has no clue about jewelery (fair enough, I have no clue about home depot. we are each knowledgeable in our own preferential domains). It had to break within a month of wear for him to accept returning it as an option. Plain and simple.

    But now in my mind it MY engagement ring. It got sentimental while it was on my finger each day (and envisioning him on one knee with it in the box). Sue me for having a hard time with returning it now too, even though it will cause us endless issues with repairs if we try to keep it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  8. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    ^^^This

    Just fyi woodstock, when you start a thread asking for advice, you'll sometimes get that. If you already know what you want to do and only want people telling you 'atta girl', then you should say that. Otherwise people will post what they see as problematic with the picture you've described.

    I'll also say I remember way back when, another poster started a thread asking for advice regarding her fiance, and Jayar popped in to tell her to get a grip or her fiance should find someone else. You know what happened? That poster didn't get defensive--she thought about what she was saying and doing to provoke the situation with her fiance, and then she changed her behavior. She even came back and thanked Jayar for being blunt about her actions.

    She's now quite happily married, and still posts here.

    So maybe people aren't trying to rain on your parade--maybe people are trying to say they see some problematic behaviors on your part, and are urging you to address them. Some are being blunt about it, others more round about. You can choose to get defensive about it, or you might consider that perhaps you aren't being the reasonable one in all this, and perhaps that some changes in your expectation of others and how you communicate with them are in order.

    Take it how you will...
     
  9. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    I suggested pre-marital counselling. So? Plenty of people have pre-marital counselling even without having obvious issues. From what's she's posted, woodstock has communication issues. If she didn't want comments, she shouldn't have posted. This is a forum for all. Friends and acquaintances suggest counselling all the time - the suggestion almost never comes from a psychiatrist or psychologist, since they're already in mental health and once you get that stage, you're already helping yourself.

    This is an internet forum, taf, people take the "advice" as it suits them. Most of the time, people know what they want to hear before they post. If woodstock only wants to read the posted that she likes, there's an easy solution for that, too.
     
  10. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Woodstock, I am sympathetic to your situation, but if this was happening me I would be questioning why my fiancé was completely unwilling to even discuss returning something I not only didn't like, but found uncomfortable and was impractical. Now that it has broken, or your concern has been confirmed by outside forces, he is willing to listen. Why wouldn't he listen and believe you in the first place? IMHO it would be less concerning if he was still insisting on the you keeping the ring because at least then he would be consistent. It might be worthwhile having a discussion about the value of your opinion quite separate and apart from this ring issue.
    I love my dh and can't imagine my life without him, but we do have that discussion quite often. It goes along with the discussion that starts out with "if I was your boss, would you speak to me that way?" when he gets that somewhat condescending tone with me. I know he doesn't mean to, but it is important that I call him on it when he does it.
     
  11. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    I actually think there is a lot of overreaction here. Woodstock's fiancee got her a ring that really was impractical. He proposed with it. I can understand Woodstock's initial reluctance to tell him she doesn't like or want the ring. I don't think that she should have been influenced by other's opinions of the ring. I do think that she should have taken a few days, really thought about how to explain her feelings to her fiancee, and told him honestly that the ring just is not right for her. But, that's easy for me to say, I'm not in the situation. It's always much easier to know "the right thing to do" when you don't have to deal with the consequences. If her fiancee was being difficult about returning the ring, maybe Woodstock resigned herself to it and let it grow on her. After it broke, it became obvious to both she and her fiancee, that the ring was a poor choice (and clearly over priced). I got no impression, at all, that the cost of the ring was influential. Woodstock came across, from the beginning, as rather frugal about spending a lot of money on an engagement ring. I think she should have the ring she wants. I don't think it's fair to judge her and suggest that her relationship is a mess because of this. Some women dream of a "perfect ring", when that doesn't happen, they are allowed to feel disappointed. That doesn't mean they are disappointed in their fiancee. Some women could care less about the ring, that's fine. But that doesn't make the woman who does care a bad person.

    My husband didn't give me a ring. I was a little disappointed, but we were saving to buy a house, so.... My mother gave me her original engagement ring diamond to have reset. My husband was fine with that. We had it set the way I wanted it. That was it.

    Woodstock, just return the ring. You will not be happy with it. Your fiancee will not be happy with it. Stop feeling guilty and prolonging the agony. Go with your fiancee, take it back and get what you want. The end.

    And, I would not continue to discuss this here. Just let us know you're happy.
     
  12. woodstock

    woodstock New Member

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    I think he was so resistant to returning it because he knew I liked butterflies and apparently thought he had bought the most perfect ring for me. As I said before, he didn't research it and didn't consider wedding band fit, durability, etc. As I found out today, he didn't even have a price limit set for his search!He just had the romantic idea of getting me a unique and special butterfly ring. A ring that no other woman has. A ring that he thought I would adore and make me happy.

    I think had it been a typical stone, without any special meaning to him in return (as far as the idea and search goes), he probably would have been more open to returning it and more open to criticism.

    I realized those things. I realized he had those ideas in an attempt to do something extraordinarily special for me. How could I throw that right back at him by being honestly communicative and saying "I don't like it". So I went the sensible route. You can't emotionally deny practicality and durability, and since he had no jewelery expertise I was able to non-fault him for the choice and instead said it was just bad consultative advice.

    I think he was much more attached to that ring from the very first sight than I ever was.
     
  13. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Yes, but now it's time to let it go. Your indecisiveness is just going to make it worse. He wants to return it, return it. Done.

    :lol: My discussion starts out with "Do you speak to your clients that way? How do you think they would respond, if you did?" My husband sometimes forgets I am not on trial.
     
  14. woodstock

    woodstock New Member

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    Thank you cruisin. You're advice has been helpful. It probably will be returned, especially if it is severely overpriced. My fiance should not overspend for something I wear, even if he doesn't care.

    It's just hard now because I grew to like it. And I love his intent behind it. It's a very pretty ring. And if it didn't have the durability issues for daily wear, ironically I would probably now choose to keep it as my engagement ring. In fact, a solitaire or other more conventional ring doesn't seem right for us anymore. Which is probably why I may just forgo a ring entirely.
     
  15. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I'll say one more thing and then I will shut up. The problem, as I see it, is that it is not his ring, it is yours. The most important thing, IMHO, should have been what you thought. It really shouldn't have been the durability issue that forced the return. I don't understand why he wouldn't take it straight back as soon as he realized it wasn't the ring you wanted. He doesn't (didn't) have to wear it, you do. It sounds like a whole lot of passive aggressive stuff is going on. JMHO, of course, but using the excuse of " but I thought it would be perfect and you'll hurt my feelings if I'm wrong" to make someone give in is just wrong. If he comes home having purchased a car for you that he wants, that is impractical for you, but he won't drive it because he doesn't want to give up his current car, will you be okay with that? I have a friend who lives like that. Her husband get "hurt" when she doesn't like something he has bought her and so she no longer says anything, she just seethes in private.
    Now I'm not saying you fiancé is like this. I don't know him. I'm just saying, if this is a theme in your relationship you might want to talk about it now. In my friend's case it actually started with an engagement ring and the last purchase was a house .....
     
  16. Theatregirl1122

    Theatregirl1122 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you've abandoned the idea of the butterfly wedding set that you posted here several times. That seems like a good compromise between the idea of the butterfly that he was attached to and a traditional wedding set that you originally wanted. It will still be different than nearly anyone else's rings. It seems like an easy solution to the problem.

    It seems fairly straightforward to me at this point, now that your fiance wants to return it. Get your money back for this ring; $2200 is too much for sentimentality. Use that money to get the butterfly wedding set you've shown in this thread several times before (if possible) thereby acknowledging that he had a great idea to get you a special, unique, butterfly themed ring and acknowledging that you need a ring suitable for daily wear.
     
  17. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    Did she invite people to assess her character too?
     
  18. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Did Karina invite you to assess her character in another thread?

    I and others think there are some serious issues with woodstock's rendition of things. Some will put the blame with woodstock, some will put the blame with the fiance, and some with both. When you ask for people's assessments on things, you're likely to get it.

    And just because I know where this is going with you taf, take whatever personal grudges you have with me to pm and stop using woodstock to project your own issues.
     
  19. taf2002

    taf2002 flower lady

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    I have no personal grudge with you. I do think that sometimes you get caught up in a thread & you say too much. It's like you get affronted if someone doesn't take your advice, like yours is the last word on every subject. You come off as a very intelligent person but that doesn't mean that you are right about everything. And I think it's time to let my :argue: with Karina rest.
     
  20. agalisgv

    agalisgv Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough
     
  21. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    I think pre-marital "counseling" is a misnomer. I'd rather call it a "preparation class." :lol: It isn't to fix something, it's to prevent something bad from happening. I mean, surely you'd want to know what sort of issues are going to pop up before you take the plunge and sign your legal individuality away!

    Heck, before the baptism of my goddaughter, her parents did a "baptism preparation class" with the priest and I'm pretty sure they don't have any issues with the spirituality of their two-month-old babies. :lol:

    Then you two should think about doing a "marriage preparation session" for HIS sake! Being stubborn and unwilling to listen or compromise is a relationship-killer. You might have weathered the beast now because the worst issue you've encountered is this engagement ring. What if your or his finances are on the line? Or your health? Or kids? Typical marriage stuff, but things that simply don't pop up when you're not married.

    I would have gone, "Honey, I love love love that you thought of getting a distinctive butterfly ring for me, I really do. But I'm truly sorry, I'm afraid I can't wear it every day." And either he'll go, "I'm sorry, we should take it back" or "No, I insist you keep it" (in whatever :argue: form that might entail) and you're forced to keep it as a special occasion ring and not wear it every day because you know it's going to break. Having an argument and figuring it out in one go isn't bad - it's when you draw it out, then you only make it worse.

    You can't spend years of your life in an intimate relationship tiptoeing around someone else's feelings. Well I mean, you could, but I personally can't picture being happy in that sort of relationship. :eek: Being considerate is obviously a requirement, but don't forget you need to say your piece too!

    Agree.

    Despite all my advice, I'm not in your relationship, woodstock. As mentioned, my bf and I are sickeningly open, and I obviously can't expect every relationship to be like that. :lol: Only you can decide what you're going to endure and compromise on and what you're not.
     
  22. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Eventually, the tiptoeing gets old. Resentment takes over. And because the guy has been trained to expect you to hold your feelings in and only consider his, he doesn't get where the resentment is coming from.
     
  23. Bev Johnston

    Bev Johnston Well-Known Member

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    I think I would just ignore the people who don't know you in real life. There's no way anyone can really know what is going on with you and your relationships unless they see you on a regular basis. (But then again, we've all been fooled even in that situation!)

    I'm interested to know what you decide on and how this all turns out. Good luck!
     
  24. Smiley0884

    Smiley0884 Well-Known Member

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    I'm kind of :rolleyes: at the conclusions that some people jump to about woodstock's relationship, based on a few internet postings about ONE incident. With that said, I do agree, with those who have said it's time to either sh*t or get off the pot. You also hold some responsibility in this situation, be a grown up and take charge. People don't like your ring? Tell them to fcuk off. Don't like your ring, it isn't practical, too expensive, might break again ect.? Return it and go with your fiance together to get a new one. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. A lot of problems with this situation is because you are letting things other people say and do affect you. YOU are in control of yourself. Good luck, and I hope you and your fiance are able to sort out the situation with the jewler in regards to getting a refund.
     
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  25. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly why some of us are so :argue: here. I can't tell what woodstock's relationship with her fiance is really like. I'm only offering my opinion over the situation she has described in this thread. But honestly woodstock, the image I have of you is an immature one. You sound like a sweet, (overly :lol: ) considerate person, but it also seems like you're expecting problems to fix themselves instead of taking charge. Sometimes the problems aren't going to fix themselves without you doing something about it.

    And I will say one final thing. My parents have been happily married for 30 years, I've never heard them once had an argument. My mom's philosophy: if someone asks for your opinion, you give it honestly. Not harshly (no throwing the ring back in his face), but honestly. If you don't offer one, you have no grounds to complain. Shut up and make do.

    They don't always agree. But in such cases, they sit down and have a discussion. And either they come to a compromise, or one of them shuts up and makes do because it's really not big a deal to him/her.

    That's how I've tried to live my adult life in general, because I understand that sometimes I can't have my cake and eat it too.
     
  26. Smiley0884

    Smiley0884 Well-Known Member

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    :eek: Your parents sound similar to mine! Married 30 years this coming fall, and while they definitely don't agree on everything I can't even count the number of times on my hand that they have actually been in a heated argument or even raised their voices at each other.

    I definitely think pre-marriage counceling can be a good thing. Not because anything is "wrong", but it's so important to have open communication. A lot of young people just haven't learned that "skill" yet, and sometimes need a bit of nudging in that department.
     
  27. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    ^^ Anita18, in general I completely agree with you. But I can see where this situation could be a bit more difficult to navigate. If the fiancee expressed that he put sooo much effort into picking out the perrrrrfect ring, I can see where it would have been tough for woodstock to be completely honest, initially. She didn't want to ruin his moment.

    That said, she should not have put so much emotion into what others thought. She should have been completely honest with herself, she was not happy with the ring. It was very considerate to not rain on fiancee's parade, when he was on bended knee. But, as I already said, she should have taken a day or two to really think about what she wanted. The ring was not what she envisioned for herself (she should wear what makes her happy too), it hurt her finger, it was made of an impractical material, and a wedding band would have to be custom made to fit the ring. These are all logical reasons to have sat fiancee down, after thinking about her approach, and tell him how she felt. Though, it sounds like she tried and he was resistant. I think we, here, have a very off kilter idea of what went on. She used FSU to vent and we may not have all of the facts as they played out in time. It now sounds like fiancee has gotten a clue that the ring was not a good investment. Woodstock, now, needs to run with that. She's getting what she initially wanted, but now she feels guilty (maybe because she did vent here). She shouldn't, the ring broke, and now fiancee agrees.

    It also sounds like your parents are very much a like, in how they handle things. That's not always the case. Some couples argue, a lot, that's part of their relationship/personality. Sometimes one person is the type that avoids conflict, the other might take advantage of that. But, that might work for them. Sometimes, like my husband and I, both are somewhat competitive - we're not happy unless we're debating something :D.
     
  28. AnnM

    AnnM Active Member

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    It sounds like you and your fiancee really need to work on your communication skills before you get married.
     
  29. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    LOL, whatever works for you. :D I've only been in relationships with men who don't like arguing with their partners.

    But judging from how woodstock was navigating the ring issue around her fiance, it seems like she wants to avoid any sort of confrontation at all costs. Giving a dissenting honest opinion doesn't have to be a confrontation. You have to choose the right time (waiting a day or two would give both of them some space) and word your opinion carefully, but it can be done without it ending in :argue:

    And seriously, this will be the best story to tell their grandkids. :lol:
     
  30. AnnM

    AnnM Active Member

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    Just came across this post, otherwise I would have addressed it in mine.

    Successful marriages can have issues all the time. The success of the relationship, however, lies in the fact that both partners are willing to confront & discuss those issues in a reasonable, adult manner rather than tiptoeing around those issues.

    I have no idea how you're going to get through wedding planning, merging finances, buying a home, raising children, etc. if you can't even work through dealing with this engagement ring.