Hughes or Lipinski? Whose skating do you like more?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TheIronLady, Jun 8, 2013.

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Hughes or Lipinski?

  1. Sarah Hughes

    40 vote(s)
    22.3%
  2. Tara Lipinski

    139 vote(s)
    77.7%
  1. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Here is what is so problematic about Wagner's choreography. The karate chops and arm poses to this particular music are stupid. Nobody could have made them look good. Sarah humored her and did this half decently, but it's hard on the eyes.

    Hughes 2003 USA Nationals Short Program
     
  2. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    She's skating angry..it would seem.
     
  3. twizzletoes76

    twizzletoes76 Member

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    Ahem, Tara. . . but, more like by a thousand miles.

    I have seen Sarah recently and Sarah does not have a bad body type at all. She has a very athletic line; she just does not utilize it. Where Sasha had body awareness in spades, and, always knew (from a very innate way) how to give 100% plus to every extension, Sarah just has no sense of this. She gives about 70% to everything, just somehow has the confidence to believe in herself, which pushes her further.

    Tara may not have been the perfect technician when she competed. I am no freestyle expert; but, even if Tara's jumps were right on, it would have been impossible for her to be perfect on so many levels at just age fifteen. For age fifteen, she was highly proficient technically and was well rewarded for what she could do. But, where Tara shines, is that she has a natural poise and energy that few have in any disciplines.

    I remember seeing photos of Tara back in the day, like for Capezio sportswear, and she just had a natural sense of how to posture and position herself well. If you look at her Twitter site, you can see this: something about Tara makes her stand out. A recent skate I saw her do on the Today show also showcases this: Tara just moves well naturally.

    Also, I don't think Sarah understands music (which, yes, is important in figure skating). To bring Sasha back into the mix: yes, Sasha gets music. That was one of her huge natural gifts, in addition to all that flexibility and body awareness. But I think Tara gets music, too: and, I also believe this is one thing that made her hugely popular on the show circuit, as the 'tween crowd really loved her performances and personality.
     
  4. twizzletoes76

    twizzletoes76 Member

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    Ahem, Tara. . . but, more like by a thousand miles.

    I have seen Sarah recently and Sarah does not have a bad body type at all. She has a very athletic line; she just does not utilize it. Where Sasha had body awareness in spades, and, always knew (from a very innate way) how to give 100% plus to every extension, Sarah just has no sense of this. She gives about 70% to everything, just somehow has the confidence to believe in herself, which pushes her further.

    Tara may not have been the perfect technician when she competed. I am no freestyle expert; but, even if Tara's jumps were right on, it would have been impossible for her to be perfect on so many levels at just age fifteen. For age fifteen, she was highly proficient technically and was well rewarded for what she could do. But, where Tara shines, is that she has a natural poise and energy that few have in any disciplines.

    I remember seeing photos of Tara back in the day, like for Capezio sportswear, and she just had a natural sense of how to posture and position herself well. If you look at her Twitter site, you can see this: something about Tara makes her stand out. A recent skate I saw her do on the Today show also showcases this: Tara just moves well naturally.

    Also, I don't think Sarah understands music (which, yes, is important in figure skating). To bring Sasha back into the mix: yes, Sasha gets music. That was one of her huge natural gifts, in addition to all that flexibility and body awareness. But I think Tara gets music, too: and, I also believe this is one thing that made her hugely popular on the show circuit, as the 'tween crowd really loved her performances and personality.
     
  5. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Thanks for the nice posts, some of you.

    So sick of the Tara, Sarah (and Wagner) bashing.
     
  6. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Even though I recognize Sasha had better body awareness and music choices that fit her personality better, I always preferred Sarah during their time competing against one another. Yes, Sarah was awkward and wasn't helped out at all by Robin Wagner's choreography. However, I always thought there was something special about Sarah and actually preferred her skating skills and actual content of the choreography (if not the way Sarah executed it) much more than Sasha's which seemed so bare-bones in 2000-2002. There seemed to be more depth to Sarah's skating (and I'm not just talking about edges which were deeper than Sasha's at the time). I actually thought there wasn't much cohesiveness or an actual point-of-view to most of Sasha's skating until later on. Maybe that's why I wasn't sold on Sasha's musicality. That said, Sasha's Romeo and Juliet and Dark Eyes is better than anything Sarah produced. I think COP may have helped with that as it itemized what Sasha had to put in her routines.
     
  7. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't sure what Sasha had to do with this thread but then I saw some posts above bringing her up. Naturally, I always preferred Sasha. At her best she could really sell a program, same for Tara, but to me Sarah didn't. Just a matter of preference I guess.
     
  8. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Wagner did too much bashing of Hughes in 2003 and Cohen in 2005. I think she deserves some criticism for what she did as a coach and choreographer.
     
  9. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I brought up Sasha mainly because like Hughes she was a victim of Wagner's choreographic choices and her strange willingness to trash and criticize former students. I say strange because Wagner should not have been talking down students when she is completely uncritical of herself.
     
  10. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Is the "gag order" still in effect?:p
     
  11. taf2002

    taf2002 Texas slumlord

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    You are absolutely right. I detested nearly everything about Sarah's skating from the first (1998) & couldn't understand why the purist Dick Button didn't call her out on all her flaws. Or why Peggy Fleming identified her "natural grace" during Sarah's most awkward & gangly years. To this day I can't understand how informed skating fans can ignore the pre-rotated/cheated jumps (many off the wrong edge) & the bad body positions. I do think Papa's money & influence had a lot to do with judging - just as I'll always believe Galit Chait's father bought her world bronze. But the fans weren't fooled - they knew Chait didn't deserve that medal. But all the wuz robbing that Sarah got from the fans truly boggles the mind.

    You're wrong - I don't know how many Kwan fans supported Hughes but I certainly wasn't one. There were a lot of skaters who were no threat to Kwan so that wasn't an incentive for me to support Sarah. I supported Angela Nik as the US #2 & would not have been crushed if she had beat Michelle at least once. I wanted Angela to have enough of a resume to springboard her into a pro career. And I never was critical or loathing of Sasha because at first she was not a threat. When we were first introduced to her, Naomi Nari Nam (who I adored) was the bigger threat. And for another, she provided loads of entertainment for us in interviews.
     
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  12. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Nikodinov was never U.S #2. She had her chance to perhaps become at the 2001 Worlds and blew it.
     
  13. PairSk8Fan

    PairSk8Fan Banned Member

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    If Sarah had continued on in competitive skating after the age of 18 with a coach to guide her after the "Wagner" years, she could have developed into a beautiful skater as a mature woman, like Maria Butyrskaya did, despite her flaws.

    What we are criticizing here is the skating of a TEENAGER. Sarah never skated seriously as an adult. She won that OGM as an immature skater not even close to her potential for artistic skating. For her, it was child's play, and when Sarah became an adult, she went to Yale and started the process of growing up.

    I think Sarah quit long before she realized her potential as a skater, professional or otherwise, or as an artist on the ice. Imagine a mature choreography on her with improved jumps as an adult. It could have been glorious.
     
  14. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    I totally disagree. Sarah and her body just got in under the wire.

    You can't blame Robin for the unkempt, non-jumping mess that was Sarah when she appeared in SOI in 05.

    Even when she appeared in a few shows two yrs ago, she wasn't jumping..not doing much of anything. If you are going to show up, "come to the yard to play..". If Nicole Bobek could get her jumps back in 8 months after her "unfortunate" life event..and Nancy Kerrigan in her 40's, mother of three..not to mention Liz Manley, Debi Thomas, Katia..to name a few, then certainly had Sarah trained, she could have..I think..She certainly had the time to train..It wasn't as if if she were walking her kindergarten class to the bus stop..
     
  15. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    If you had asked me this in 2002, I probably would have said Sarah, and that would have been based on personality along with the skating. I was a huge Kwan fan, thought Tara looked too juniorish during her Olympic period, and even had met Sarah at 1998 Nationals and thought she a great kid who was very promising.

    But taking a hard look now at the two of them, Tara was a better skater. While she had one of the worst flutzes in the book and her double axels scared the daylights out of me (she barely got off the ground), she had an amazing consistency and her triple triples were something out of this world. She also skated with great joy, always. As for Sarah, here, I was partially affected during her competition days because I simply couldn't STAND Sasha, to me Sasha was just a bunch of flexy poses along with horribly inconsistent jumps and a major attitude. (Sasha grew on me over the years, I started to really see the beauty in her skating and consider myself a fan today).

    I agree with those who said Sarah had a certain maturity during her eligible days which I enjoyed - but in retrospect, her jump technique was truly awful, and the rest was really nothing to write home about. She did have a gawkiness about her at times. Most disappointing to me was 2003 - she got through at least a solid if not great Nationals, and then promptly appeared to gain some weight between Nationals and Worlds (oh, that dress that barely covered her butt in the qualifying round, that was so embarrassing) and skated the World Championships as though she'd like to be anywhere else but on that ice. I really have to tip the scales to Tara - she loved skating, it was obvious, and overall, she did far more with her skating and her competitions and took it as far as she could before injury took it out. Sarah let it near completely fall apart after her Olympics.

    I think it says a lot when you watch the two of them today; Tara cannot jump because of injury, and she doesn't participate in shows aside from maybe a brief moment or two on the ice and has moved to announcing and new horizons and seems to be enjoying her life to the fullest. Sarah went for that college degree her family kept touting and has done nothing with it and now seems to want the skating fame and fortune she didn't have (or her family didn't allow in their "our daughter the academic" dream). She now looks foolish skating programs with spirals, crossovers and spins and no jumps - the average pre-preliminary level skater does far more than she does on the ice in a program. She had one, brief shining moment in 2002, and that's really all she had. And she didn't get the chance to really enjoy it or capitalize on it.
     
  16. soogar

    soogar New Member

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    I'm a huge Tara fan and it's nice to see Tara win something on FSU for a change. A few years ago Tara skated on one of the morning show programs with no jumps and her basic skating skills were so sure with beautiful edges. Plus she always had good positions on her camel spins- she is very neat in her presentation of her elements. She doesn't have spectacular flexibility or stretch like Sasha but everything she does on the ice is neatly presented and clean looking.

    Sarah on the other hand was always quite awkward looking even though she had good individual elements, like good spins, basic skating skills- she couldn't put those elements together into a cohesive presentation. Off topic, but her sister IMO was the more enjoyable skater because she was able to better minimize her weak points.
     
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  17. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

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    Hughes was near the top due to the really weak field of the Kwan/Slutskaya era. There were hardly any good skaters besides Kwan and Irina (and Irina only when she wasnt in one of her prolonged slumps) so by default flawed skaters like Hughes, and to a lesser degree Tara although Tara was a way better skater than Hughes, who could atleast stand up alot of triples and had a couple other good points were up there. Who else was there. They have to award medals and placements to someone. In a much deeper ladies field like the last 7 years has been you wouldnt have ever heard of Hughes.
     
  18. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    My bad. I meant to say Sarah was younger than Sasha, that was a typo. Otherwise what I said wouldn't make sense.

    I guess some of it comes down to different tastes. I'm also a big Kwan fab and I think Michelle is certainly a superior skater to Sarah, but I personally thought Sarah had some great qualities and some things that were better, like her layback (JMHO). However, I think Peggy went a bit over the top with her, especially at 2001 Worlds when she thought Sarah's short program was better than Kwan, Slute, and Bute's.
     
  19. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    The Kwan-Slutskaya era is weak? Can we get over this already?

    I will agree that some years during their era - 2006 in particular - were an absolute mess in terms of skating quality, but when Hughes was competing she faced very stiff competition. The 2001 Worlds, in particular, was such a well-skated competition. Almost everyone skated well in the SP. All of the top 6 skaters expect for Nikodinov landed at least 6 triples in the LP, and even Nikodinov's LP wasn't at all a slack. 2004, 2010 Olympics, and 2013 were also top years in terms of Worlds/Olympics skating quality. Even in 2000, when Sarah finished fifth, the top four all skated fairly well. The last 7 years have seen much worse skating make it to the podium.

    The way I see it, the Kwan-Slutskaya era was a time of better competitors, though the recent era (I suppose Asada-Kim era) is a time of better skaters. Kostner and Asada are both excellent skaters, but given their competitive record would have faired poorly during years like 2001. Skaters such as Lipinski and Hughes are not as good skaters as Kostner/Asada, but they are certainly better competitors.
     
  20. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    I agree. And Peggy said it right after Peter pointed out the wrong edge take off on the lutz and the under rotation on the flip.(stro-mo)
     
  21. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

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    Why, just because you dont agree with it and we should all come around to what you think. Get over yourself.
     
  22. duane

    duane New Member

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    To each his own about how they feel about Sarah's skating, but in regards to Tara, the to-a-lesser-degree "flawed" skater beat both "good" skaters at Worlds and the Olympics, and no one can say she won the OGM by default.
     
  23. ballettmaus

    ballettmaus Well-Known Member

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    I was never a Kwan fan, however, I found Hughes' skating boring. I can acknowledge her technique but that doesn't change the fact, for me, that I didn't see her connect with the music and feel the music/choreography. I admit, I haven't seen a ton of Lipinski's programs but her short to Anastasia will always be one of my all time favorite skating programs.
     
  24. Angela-Fan

    Angela-Fan Well-Known Member

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    :lol: squeal-a-meter
    This thread is :watch:
    I really liked both of them. Despite my screenname, lol, Tara was and still is my all time favorite. As much as I liked Sarah, I did think she was awkward sometimes and her choreography was cheesy at times. I blame Robin for that, haha. But she did have more complex choreography than Tara.
    And one thing I like about both is their nerves of steel! I really like Sasha, Angela, and Alissa but man they made me so nervous!
     
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  25. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Well as a senior skater she only had 6 programs-3 SP and 3 LP's. So you probably saw most of them LOL.
     
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  26. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    And they weren't thematically or artistically much different from one another, so if you saw one, you got the gist of the others. At least for her 1997 and 1998 routines.
     
  27. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I think the Kwan and Slute era was very weak, not as weak as the 80-83 era but weak. I don't care if people don't agree with me, but I care if they tell me that my beliefs are wrong.
     
  28. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it was that weak. During the "Kwan and Slute era" the winner of worlds or the Olympics had to skate a 7 triple program with a 3/3 to win with the exception of 2003 and 2002 worlds.

    2000 worlds- winner had 7 triples and a 3/3
    2001 worlds winner had 7 triples and a 3/3
    2002 olympics winner had 7 triples and two 3/3
    2002 worlds winner had 6 triples and no 3/3
    2003-6 triples and no 3/3
    2004-7 triples and (2?) 3/3
    2005-7 triples and a 3/3
     
  29. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Although I agree with you, please let's not bring that debate into this thread.
     
  30. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    In nearly all of those examples, Kwan and Slute were the top skaters. They were remarkable skaters. I miss them. :( Their competition? Not so remarkable. Worlds was usually great. The other 99% of the competitions every season were often a bore and poorly skated from second place down because their competition stunk.

    When I look at the 90-92 era and how Yamaguchi had to arrive at the Olympics with a 7 triple long program with a 3Z-3T to have a shot at beating Ito and Harding, if they skated clean, then yes, the Kwan/Slute era seems weak.

    To bring the conversation back to Hughes and Lipinski, given their hunger to win, it would have been interesting to see what tricks they might have had up their sleeves if they'd been in Yamaguchi's skated and been forced to compete against jumpers like Ito and Harding.