Hughes or Lipinski? Whose skating do you like more?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TheIronLady, Jun 8, 2013.

Hughes or Lipinski?

  1. Sarah Hughes

    40 vote(s)
    22.3%
  2. Tara Lipinski

    139 vote(s)
    77.7%
  1. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Hughes probably had the better olympics performance. But in terms of who's skating i like better, i give it to Lipinski
     
  2. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    This observation is sort of classic in more ways than one. It tells the truth about these skaters, while showing how valuable will, determination, and possessing some old fashioned grade-a bitch competitiveness is for a ladies star.
     
  3. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Oh please. Are the people calling Sarah "coltish" etc. offending skinny people? Neither one can help their body types, but Sarah's was more womanly and visually appealing, rather than looking like a little girl. It's a matter of preference but it is called ladies skating. Tara's squeal-heard-round-the-world was much more screechy than Sarah's golly-gee-me? peep. Tara's reaction seemed all about "me" whereas Sarah's was more respectful of those around her.
     
  4. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Really??? Tara just won the Olympic gold medal she was 15 years old she just beat a skater that practically everyone thought would win. She was really excited and now you are trying to to make her happiness in that moment seem like it was "all about me"? It sounds more like sour grapes. There was nothing wrong with her body either it matched her age!!! :)
     
  5. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Boy are you ever missing the point. Midget is an out-of-date term that many, many people now find offensive.

    In YOUR opinion.

    Ridiculous. :lol: :rofl: Now you're grading the squeals based on how they affected those around them? :rofl: This must be the off season. :lol:
     
  6. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    Tara was an overall better skater, IMO, but each lady had elements to her skating that were better than the other. For example, Sarah's layback spin was better than Tara's. Both ladies had good speed in their spins. Sarah had a better double axel than Tara. The list goes on.

    I thought Tara deserved her Olympic Gold Medal based on her SP and her LP. I didn't think Sarah deserved hers because I felt she should have been lower in the short program by a lot more than she was. Sarah's LP was great, but she wouldn't have won, IMO, if her SP was judged properly.

    I preferred watching Tara skate to Sarah. Sarah looked downright uncomfortable a good portion of the time, and sometimes labored. Tara always looked light and in control.

    O-
    ETA: Both ladies screamed equally well! ;)
     
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  7. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ITA. Whole post, especially the fact that Sarah DID do some elements better than Tara such as the layback spin.
     
  8. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    'Coltish' is not a term meant for skinny people per se. It's more about people who perhaps look or move a bit awkwardly - like a newborn colt. Heck, it could be a new born hippo too, they're not particularly graceful either. Sarah also had a problem with posture on the ice. She often looked hunched over.

    'Midget' is an offensive, out of date term, for little people. Coming from a family of short people (I'm 4'10, taller than my mom) I know what I'm talking about.

    And I'm sorry, but your issue with Tara's 'squal-heard-round-the-world' versus Sarah's is just plain silly. I mean, what, am I to understand that there is some kind of a squal-a-meter out there, that I should know about, which makes Sarah's scream or squeal somehow more acceptable than Tara's? :rolleyes:

    Well put. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  9. ohashibiles

    ohashibiles Active Member

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    Tara since she had such superior jumps. I dont consider Tara's jumps as great as say Irina Slutskaya's due to that they werent powerful or high enough. However they were still excellent with the rotation, control, air position, and flow out to virtual perfection. She had a very minor flutz and very occasional underrotation on the back end of her triple loop-triple loop combo but those were only technical issues. Sarah has terrible quality jumps, a huge flutz with a gigantic mule kick, a gigantic mule kick on her triple flip and even triple toe, and nothing quality about their delivery. Tara was also much more consistent doing 7 triples, 2 triple lutzes, and hard triple-triples, while Sarah probably only produced that once ever, in her Olympic LP.

    The rest of their skating? Meh, not much difference either way. Spirals Sarah was better. Spins I would have thought Sarah but not sure come to think of it. Her camel spins were so slow, and her sit spin wasnt as good as Tara's, and neither had a good scratch spin. However Sarah had a much better layback and could do the catch foot/Half Biellmann type spins fairly well so probably her. Footwork Tara was definitely better, and Tara skated with much more speed, attack, command, and confidence. Sarah had more choreography and transitions, but Tara's delivered her choreography better. Sarah's choreography was quite bad in some ways often too, despite that it was fairly stockd.
     
  10. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    What?!? I would say Tara had a major flutz issue. Almost as bad as Sarah's with the high kick and deep inside edge.
     
  11. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    ^^not to talk about her axel technique:yikes:
     
  12. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    LOL, back in 1998, Tara's screamed pierced my MK-lovin heart (as well as my ears, ouch!). But Sarah falling off the bench and rolling on the floor with her coach was not exactly a "golly-gee-me peep" either. Anyway, they didn't owe it to their competitors to be "respectful" (whatever that means), they owed it to themselves to enjoy the moment to the fullest.
     
  13. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think Robin owed it to us to act less creepy and ham-fisted during that kiss-n-cry moment. Has any Olympic winning coach ever acted so undignified?
     
  14. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I remember she tried to pull that crap with Sylvia Fontana in Torino. But Sylvia was certainly not a 16-year-old girl and didn't have time for that.

    As to whether a coach of an Olympic gold medalist had ever looked so undignified, just look at John Geddert, who coached Olympic gymnast Jordyn Wieber (and was on the floor during the competition). He was incredibly embarrassing, shameless, chauvinistic, and dim-witted. At least Wagner wasn't arrogant.
    Of course, there were always the U.S. coaches at the 1996 Atlanta games. Steve Nunno and Bela Karyoli were quite...obnoxious to put it kindly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
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  15. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Should we YouTube any particular event in particular? I've heard nightmare stories about Geddert and have always been curious to see his behavior myself. Sounds like a creep, from the stories I've heard.

    I don't think Sarah fell off the couch. I thought Robin pulled her off the couch. But I could be wrong. I'm not going to watch it again. I don't have the stomach to experience that moment again.
     
  16. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/figure/news?id=1338353

    Scroll down, it was Robin who pulled Sarah off of the couch.

    I thought that Sarah's reaction was perfectly fine.
     
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  17. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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  18. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Tara's posture was also horrendous such as in her layback. Let's say that Tara resembled a baby hippo in her posture. Is that less offensive?

    It's not the first or the last time anyone has or will call Tara a midget. This is the first time, however, I've heard of anyone being offended about discussions of Tara's height. The word "dwarf" is actually used in medical terminology. Would it make you feel better to call Tara a dwarf? If you are insecure about your height then that's sad but no reason to tell others what vocabulary to use.

    Tara's squeal was childish, which goes along with her childish body type, which is fine for a child, because that's what she was, but it is ladies skating, not children's skating. That is why Tara's whole aura rubbed many the wrong way. It was extremely garish and out of place. If childishness wasn't a problem then the age rule would not have been implemented while Tara was competing.

    Some people may be offended at the terms skinny, lanky, gangly. Doesn't stop anyone from using those terms to describe Sarah because it describes what she is.

    Are there athletic body types that don't match people's ages?
     
  19. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Robin's reaction was ridiculous and obnoxious. SHE did not just win the Olympics.

    I thought Sarah reacted fine and actually I wish Robin did not grab her and pull her on the floor because I would have liked to see her natural reaction. I don't think she would have rolled around with Robin on the floor.
     
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  20. shady82

    shady82 Active Member

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    This whole thread made me lol. I never got the immense dislike for Sarah Hughes. I don't know much abouth her off-ice behavior so I can't comment on that. Regarding her skating, there were many qualities about her that I liked. I actually agree with Peggy Fleming that Sarah has a natural elegance. I found her style and presentation to be incredibly mature for her age. IMO, other skaters at that age (Mao, Yu-na, Irina, almost all the current top American ladies, as well as similar-aged skaters during her time such as Jenny Kirk or Naomi Nari Nam) seemed relatively juniorish, as great as they were. Even Cohen, who was younger than Hughes, I found to not be as mature in her presentation, though I still liked her a lot in 2002. There aren't many skaters I would say that, at 16, had a more mature style - Kwan is one of them. I do agree though that Sarah's basic skating and jump technique was quite poor though.

    However, Lipinski is a stronger skater than Hughes, I don't disagree with that. I also don't think that HUghes' winning performance was better than Lipinski. There's a reason why she didn't get a single 5.9.
     
  21. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    Tara had more than a minor flutz. I can't see that she took off at all from an outside edge. Her double axel technique was also weird. Peggy Fleming said it looked like a roller skating jump--which it probably was!
     
  22. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Of course it was, so was her Salchow's technique.
    But she had an absolutely amazing control of her upper body !
     
  23. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    This is probably more because Sarah skated first of the final group, while Tara skated almost last. ;)
     
  24. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Liz Manley had the same salchow technique.

    As for me, I loved both skaters for their own reasons, but will vote for Tara as she is my favorite skater. :)
     
  25. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Sarah Hughes too. ;)
     
  26. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Sasha is older than Sarah by about 7 months.

    When Peggy said that Sarah had "a natural grace and elegance", I think that I threw up a little in my mouth. Her hand positions were horrendous. I hated the way that she entered her jumps, off center or something. And, then, there were the choreographic butt-slaps. My eyes. Lest I be accused of saying this as a Kwanophile, I saw Sarah skate in Phila in 98. When they introduced her as the Jr. National Champion, I said to my seatmate, "If she won, how bad was everyone else?"
     
  27. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Dumbest rationalization ever.
     
  28. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    It's funny. Back in 1999 and 2000 I felt like the only person who couldn't stand Sarah's ugly skating. People forget now how many fans gushed and raved about her at first. I used to cringe at her cheated jumps and awkward skating and wonder why she got a free pass. I felt like the kid in The Emperor's New Clothes. "Is no one else seeing what I am seeing?" I know some of the younger folks won't believe it, you will say, "Sure, sure. Right. Impossible. Sure that happened." But I remember clearly that for about a year Sarah couldn't do a thing wrong by the majority of online skating fans. There was a standard "Sarah wuz robbed" thread nearly every time she competed. She had MANY supporters and many fan sites devoted to her. Then she became a more formidable competitor on the international level and she was scrutinized more. I think some people ripping on her were nervous Kwan and Butyskaya fans. But another big part was that simply with success comes greater scrutiny and higher standards, and she simply couldn't hold a candle to the other top skaters. Sarah once said that Robin always tried to mold her into a pretty princess skating to pretty music, but once she put her foot down and insisted on skating an Olympic long program that stressed her athletic ability more, she felt more comfortable on the ice. Makes one wonder how she would have fared with a different coach. Obviously the coach she had before Robin didn't teach her proper jump technique and then Robin pushed her in a stylistic direction that she didn't feel comfortable with and it showed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  29. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    One hypothesis could be that some Kwan fans supported Hughes as USA's #2. She was no threat to Kwan or should not have been according to the common wisdom. Kwan fans were critical and loathing of Sasha when she appeared in 2000. I don't know who the early Sarah fans were or how many there were circa 1999 and 2000, but they had to be Americans.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
  30. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

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    Lepinski

    Though I enjoyed Hughes programs from season 2000