Hughes or Lipinski? Whose skating do you like more?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TheIronLady, Jun 8, 2013.

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Hughes or Lipinski?

  1. Sarah Hughes

    40 vote(s)
    22.3%
  2. Tara Lipinski

    139 vote(s)
    77.7%
  1. arakwafan2006

    arakwafan2006 Active Member

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    Tara!

    I would agree that Sarah had a lot to offer but needed more time and probably better choreography. She also didnt seem to have the best body awareness which is odd because Robin Wagner boasts ballet background.
  2. duane

    duane New Member

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    Exactly.

    I chose Tara, but agree with siouxdonym about the comments made about Sarah.
  3. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    I found Tara to be so juniorish in terms of style and packaging, but I think she really had all over Sarah. Sarah had more choreography than Tara, and it felt as though her programs were better planned out, but she had such poor posture, and awkward overall body movement. I also never found her to be terribly musical as a skater.
  4. Lnt175

    Lnt175 Member

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    Neither were particularly great but Lipinski did improve as a skater, while Hughes just stagnated. Her win at the Olympics was also more flukish than Lipinskis, who many have said, was at least expected to always be top 2 that season.
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  5. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    Tara, without question. I found her programs age and size appropriate and her musical choices as an eligible complimented her style.

    Sarah, OTOH, was unwatchable, her choreography was pretentious, think Fosse, her layback notwithstanding, there was nothing about her skating that drew me in.
  6. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    I've never loved Sarah, but I've never hated her either.

    Aside from Ave Maria, I actually liked all her short programs: Serenade fur Klara, Vocalise, Piano Concerto -- all lovely.

    I didn't care for her long programs aside from Turandot (I actually associate her as much as Shizuka Arakawa) and her exhibitions always felt like they were bordering on 6 minutes.

    Nice flow, nice spins, nice 2A, horrible 3Lz and 3F.

    What impresses me both about Sarah and Tara was the tremendous improvement in their skating over the course of ~3 seasons. And, of course, their steely competitive nerves.

    What bothered me the most was actually off-ice. I found Sarah's accent and general demeanor not particularly pleasing to hear or watch. But those are things she can't really change.
  7. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    That's putting it charitably. I always thought it was a blatant rip-off.
  8. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Well, considering she only won one other event besides the Olympics, it would mean that everyone skated pretty below standards at the two events she won.

    I realize she is the Olympic Champion and ho hum skaters don't make it to the Olympics (exept for possibly her sister and Rachel Flatt) but her 4th place in the short program was a joke. Her long program was the best of the night but the whole win was a fluke IMO.

    Anyway I really liked Sarah's spins and I thought her spiral (aside from the little bend at her knee) was good.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
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  9. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    She won 3 seniors events, but yeah she was mediocre compared to the top skaters. Maybe she wasn't mediocre compared to the entire pool of eligible skaters but she couldn't hold a candle to the top echelon. I will never understand why the USFSA pimped her so hard. I guess they saw something many others did not.
  10. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    What was the third? I can only think of Skate Canada 2001 and the Olympics.
  11. falling_dance

    falling_dance The Scarlet Unlettered

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    1999 Karl Schaefer Memorial ("Vienna Cup"), IIRC.
  12. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    99 Vienna Cup.
  13. NYScorp6

    NYScorp6 Member

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    Not even close, Tara by a mile plus.
    Sarah had horrible posture.
  14. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Sarah because she was a less annoying skater and a less annoying person in general.

    Tara looked pretty darn awkward to me. She may not have been gangly but she was a midget. Not visually appealing. And the screaming/squealing - ugh. Sarah held herself with much more composure even though being only one year older.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
  15. giselle23

    giselle23 Active Member

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    Giggly vs gangly. I choose neither.
  16. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Tara Lipisnki all the way.

    I don't hate Sarah, but she was frustrating for me to watch because she would create something elegant and ten seconds later start some awkward pose jutting out her chin, or scratching at her neck trying to mime string vibrato...or was she fanning herself? No clue.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTErIOgs_-I#t=3m25s
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  17. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Her Fosse program was especially full of awkward poses and it lasted 18 hours. Actually I think she's still performing her SLC exhibition right now.
  18. Simone411

    Simone411 aka IceSkate98

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    I liked Tara. I didn't dislike Sarah, but I did dislike how she would take off in her jumps. It looked like to me that she was hiking or raising her leg very high before she jumped. If I remember correctly, I think she did improve on that problem later on.
  19. duane

    duane New Member

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    I'm actually quite impressed with her performance, more so considering she's only 15.

    The performance reminds me that being in the 5'5" - 5'6" range, she is very tall for a skater. Michelle and Sasha are 5'2". Maria appeared tall on the ice, but (like Irina) is 5'3". I wonder if that's why Sarah appeared gangly to some.
  20. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Well, we can agree to disagree. Tara looked like a pixie to me because of her size but not awkward. And she certainly didn't look like a midget. I think that's kind of offensive for little people. Tara was tiny but proportioned. She was still physically a child. Sarah's posture on the ice, on the other hand, was always a problem for me. And as for the screaming/squealing, Sarah's scream when SHE won Olympic gold in 2002 equals Tara's at her Olympics in 1998. That one's a tie in my book. But hey, they were teenagers excited at winning the biggest competition of their lives. How could anyone blame them for choosing to express their excitement that way?

    eta: Looks like Tara's running away with this poll.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  21. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Hughes probably had the better olympics performance. But in terms of who's skating i like better, i give it to Lipinski
  22. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    This observation is sort of classic in more ways than one. It tells the truth about these skaters, while showing how valuable will, determination, and possessing some old fashioned grade-a bitch competitiveness is for a ladies star.
  23. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Oh please. Are the people calling Sarah "coltish" etc. offending skinny people? Neither one can help their body types, but Sarah's was more womanly and visually appealing, rather than looking like a little girl. It's a matter of preference but it is called ladies skating. Tara's squeal-heard-round-the-world was much more screechy than Sarah's golly-gee-me? peep. Tara's reaction seemed all about "me" whereas Sarah's was more respectful of those around her.
  24. Dilng

    Dilng Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Really??? Tara just won the Olympic gold medal she was 15 years old she just beat a skater that practically everyone thought would win. She was really excited and now you are trying to to make her happiness in that moment seem like it was "all about me"? It sounds more like sour grapes. There was nothing wrong with her body either it matched her age!!! :)
  25. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Boy are you ever missing the point. Midget is an out-of-date term that many, many people now find offensive.

    In YOUR opinion.

    Ridiculous. :lol: :rofl: Now you're grading the squeals based on how they affected those around them? :rofl: This must be the off season. :lol:
  26. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    Tara was an overall better skater, IMO, but each lady had elements to her skating that were better than the other. For example, Sarah's layback spin was better than Tara's. Both ladies had good speed in their spins. Sarah had a better double axel than Tara. The list goes on.

    I thought Tara deserved her Olympic Gold Medal based on her SP and her LP. I didn't think Sarah deserved hers because I felt she should have been lower in the short program by a lot more than she was. Sarah's LP was great, but she wouldn't have won, IMO, if her SP was judged properly.

    I preferred watching Tara skate to Sarah. Sarah looked downright uncomfortable a good portion of the time, and sometimes labored. Tara always looked light and in control.

    O-
    ETA: Both ladies screamed equally well! ;)
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  27. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ITA. Whole post, especially the fact that Sarah DID do some elements better than Tara such as the layback spin.
  28. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    'Coltish' is not a term meant for skinny people per se. It's more about people who perhaps look or move a bit awkwardly - like a newborn colt. Heck, it could be a new born hippo too, they're not particularly graceful either. Sarah also had a problem with posture on the ice. She often looked hunched over.

    'Midget' is an offensive, out of date term, for little people. Coming from a family of short people (I'm 4'10, taller than my mom) I know what I'm talking about.

    And I'm sorry, but your issue with Tara's 'squal-heard-round-the-world' versus Sarah's is just plain silly. I mean, what, am I to understand that there is some kind of a squal-a-meter out there, that I should know about, which makes Sarah's scream or squeal somehow more acceptable than Tara's? :rolleyes:

    Well put. :lol:
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  29. ohashibiles

    ohashibiles Member

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    Tara since she had such superior jumps. I dont consider Tara's jumps as great as say Irina Slutskaya's due to that they werent powerful or high enough. However they were still excellent with the rotation, control, air position, and flow out to virtual perfection. She had a very minor flutz and very occasional underrotation on the back end of her triple loop-triple loop combo but those were only technical issues. Sarah has terrible quality jumps, a huge flutz with a gigantic mule kick, a gigantic mule kick on her triple flip and even triple toe, and nothing quality about their delivery. Tara was also much more consistent doing 7 triples, 2 triple lutzes, and hard triple-triples, while Sarah probably only produced that once ever, in her Olympic LP.

    The rest of their skating? Meh, not much difference either way. Spirals Sarah was better. Spins I would have thought Sarah but not sure come to think of it. Her camel spins were so slow, and her sit spin wasnt as good as Tara's, and neither had a good scratch spin. However Sarah had a much better layback and could do the catch foot/Half Biellmann type spins fairly well so probably her. Footwork Tara was definitely better, and Tara skated with much more speed, attack, command, and confidence. Sarah had more choreography and transitions, but Tara's delivered her choreography better. Sarah's choreography was quite bad in some ways often too, despite that it was fairly stockd.
  30. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    What?!? I would say Tara had a major flutz issue. Almost as bad as Sarah's with the high kick and deep inside edge.
  31. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    ^^not to talk about her axel technique:yikes:
  32. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    LOL, back in 1998, Tara's screamed pierced my MK-lovin heart (as well as my ears, ouch!). But Sarah falling off the bench and rolling on the floor with her coach was not exactly a "golly-gee-me peep" either. Anyway, they didn't owe it to their competitors to be "respectful" (whatever that means), they owed it to themselves to enjoy the moment to the fullest.
  33. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think Robin owed it to us to act less creepy and ham-fisted during that kiss-n-cry moment. Has any Olympic winning coach ever acted so undignified?
  34. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I remember she tried to pull that crap with Sylvia Fontana in Torino. But Sylvia was certainly not a 16-year-old girl and didn't have time for that.

    As to whether a coach of an Olympic gold medalist had ever looked so undignified, just look at John Geddert, who coached Olympic gymnast Jordyn Wieber (and was on the floor during the competition). He was incredibly embarrassing, shameless, chauvinistic, and dim-witted. At least Wagner wasn't arrogant.
    Of course, there were always the U.S. coaches at the 1996 Atlanta games. Steve Nunno and Bela Karyoli were quite...obnoxious to put it kindly.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2013
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  35. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    Should we YouTube any particular event in particular? I've heard nightmare stories about Geddert and have always been curious to see his behavior myself. Sounds like a creep, from the stories I've heard.

    I don't think Sarah fell off the couch. I thought Robin pulled her off the couch. But I could be wrong. I'm not going to watch it again. I don't have the stomach to experience that moment again.
  36. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/figure/news?id=1338353

    Scroll down, it was Robin who pulled Sarah off of the couch.

    I thought that Sarah's reaction was perfectly fine.
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  37. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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  38. leafygreens

    leafygreens Well-Known Member

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    Tara's posture was also horrendous such as in her layback. Let's say that Tara resembled a baby hippo in her posture. Is that less offensive?

    It's not the first or the last time anyone has or will call Tara a midget. This is the first time, however, I've heard of anyone being offended about discussions of Tara's height. The word "dwarf" is actually used in medical terminology. Would it make you feel better to call Tara a dwarf? If you are insecure about your height then that's sad but no reason to tell others what vocabulary to use.

    Tara's squeal was childish, which goes along with her childish body type, which is fine for a child, because that's what she was, but it is ladies skating, not children's skating. That is why Tara's whole aura rubbed many the wrong way. It was extremely garish and out of place. If childishness wasn't a problem then the age rule would not have been implemented while Tara was competing.

    Some people may be offended at the terms skinny, lanky, gangly. Doesn't stop anyone from using those terms to describe Sarah because it describes what she is.

    Are there athletic body types that don't match people's ages?
  39. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    Robin's reaction was ridiculous and obnoxious. SHE did not just win the Olympics.

    I thought Sarah reacted fine and actually I wish Robin did not grab her and pull her on the floor because I would have liked to see her natural reaction. I don't think she would have rolled around with Robin on the floor.
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  40. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    This whole thread made me lol. I never got the immense dislike for Sarah Hughes. I don't know much abouth her off-ice behavior so I can't comment on that. Regarding her skating, there were many qualities about her that I liked. I actually agree with Peggy Fleming that Sarah has a natural elegance. I found her style and presentation to be incredibly mature for her age. IMO, other skaters at that age (Mao, Yu-na, Irina, almost all the current top American ladies, as well as similar-aged skaters during her time such as Jenny Kirk or Naomi Nari Nam) seemed relatively juniorish, as great as they were. Even Cohen, who was younger than Hughes, I found to not be as mature in her presentation, though I still liked her a lot in 2002. There aren't many skaters I would say that, at 16, had a more mature style - Kwan is one of them. I do agree though that Sarah's basic skating and jump technique was quite poor though.

    However, Lipinski is a stronger skater than Hughes, I don't disagree with that. I also don't think that HUghes' winning performance was better than Lipinski. There's a reason why she didn't get a single 5.9.