How would clean Shen & Zhao have done at 2014 Olympics

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by KimGOAT, Apr 15, 2014.

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How would clean Shen & Zhao do in Sochi

  1. gold

    7 vote(s)
    9.2%
  2. silver

    37 vote(s)
    48.7%
  3. bronze

    21 vote(s)
    27.6%
  4. no medal

    11 vote(s)
    14.5%
  1. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Had the great Shen & Zhao returned and skated cleanly in Sochi how would they have done. Could they have defended their title even.
     
  2. bronwynsings

    bronwynsings Active Member

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    Unless Volosozhar and Trankov skated the entire time on their butts, there was no way they could lose gold, especially with the way the judging for Sochi was.
     
  3. Spun Silver

    Spun Silver Well-Known Member

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    I voted silver but only because V/T were foreordained. I prefer S/Z by a million miles, and who's to say that if they had competed against V/T for a year or two they wouldn't have figured out how to beat them? But that is probably truer of 2003 or 2007 S/Z than 2010 S/Z, let alone hypothetical and ancient 2014 S/Z.
     
  4. angelflies

    angelflies Member

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    If they skated clean they would be 4th behind S&S. In higher reality to how they would probably skate given their ages and time away from amateur skating more likely a 8th place finish.
     
  5. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I actually think they would have won, since V&T weren't totally clean, but maybe I'm being too optimistic about the judging. They definitely would have beaten S&S for the bronze, if clean.
     
  6. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    S/Z have better choreography, performance quality, and innate qualities that make pairs teams special. They even have big throws. However, I don't know how they would have fit in 2014. If we're taking their 2010 selves into 2014, I can see them winning silver. V/T are still cooking, but their elements are perfect for COP scrutiny. S/Z's not so much since they developed in a program that was still a developing pairs program in the 1990s. They had to touch-and-go and did not have the benefit of coming from a federation that has a rich history of pairs skating. However, they had already beaten S/S before (and a clean S/S) and S/S skated pretty badly in the Sochi LP.
     
  7. annabrown

    annabrown Member

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    I voted GOLD! They are the best pair ever so it is impossible to deny them if they skate cleanly.
     
  8. annabrown

    annabrown Member

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    Are the 9 people who voted 4th on glue. The Germans fell twice and you think they would beat a CLEAN Shen & Zhao. The Germans have never beaten a clean Shen & Zhao in any program ever, even when they were clean themselves. They arent in the same league.
     
  9. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    In 2010 S&Z beat a clean S&S in the short program by only half a point. In 2014 V&T beat a clean S&S in the short program by four and a half points. So V&T are already out.

    Probably they would have a good shot at silver, but who knows. Stolbova & Klimov received blatant overscoring like all the Russian figure skaters. The Germans would probably be favored politically over Shen & Zhao unlike 2010 when S&Z were.
     
  10. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Clean? They would have been on the podium for sure, likely an easy 2nd. Those who voted 4th or lower are certainly on glue ;)

    They weren't clean in 2010 and won the OGM. They were also scored nicely and keep in mind that this was before all the PCS became inflated the past 2 years.
     
  11. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    Nothing was like 2010. First off they would be almost 40. That is ancient in skating, even for pairs. They wouldnt be the sentimental favorites like 2010. In 2010 they were legends and all time greats without the elusive OGM yet. That is why their scores in their comeback were consistently on the generous side compared to their competitors. This time had they come back they already had their OGM, and V&T on home ice and S&S in their last chance for the OGM would be the heavy emotional favorites above them had they returned. The judges if anything may have been baffled why they were coming back at all and less than kind.

    There also wasnt much competition in 2010. S&S were 2 time world champions but not as strong a team as 2011-2014 still, and they were having their worst season ever in 2010, even losing to Pang & Tong who they dominated the remainder of their careers. This time there would be huge opposition to face with a dominant V&T, and a now many time world champions S&S.
     
  12. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I don't think S/S made much of a case of being a stronger team going into 2014 than they were going into 2010. Yeah they have that inconsistent throw 3axel which seems like a desperate attempt to get one over V/T, but everything else seemed more or less the same (maybe some regression going on).
     
  13. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    They were attempting more difficulty, had branched out their style more, grown a bit in maturity and polish, and were a little more consistent (still not super consistent but they won most of their titles pre 2010 with lots of huge errors like the 2008 worlds, 2007 grand prix final, some of their European titles). I do think they were definitely a better team in 2011-2014 than 2008-2009, let alone 2010 which was their worst year of skating ever in their primes. I dont think the S&S of pre 2011 could have ever beaten V&T at the 2011 grand prix final for instance, maybe not even the 2011 and 2012 worlds. The 2010 one wouldnt even been close. S&S actually did competitions with a clean short and long sometimes- 2011 worlds, 2013 grand prix final, which they never did before 2010.

    Remember in 2010 S&S lost to Pang & Tong all 4 times they met. They were in a huge slump that year and not skating well at all, which make it ridiculously easy for S&Z to just coast to their much deserved and long awaited gold in 2010.
     
  14. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think I need to watch S/S closely to see the evolution of their skating. I just haven't had much motivation to care much about pairs skating since…well 2004.
     
  15. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    I began to lose interest around 2005 when Shen & Zhao went down with injuries and Tatiana Totmianina and Marim Marinin began to dominate.
     
  16. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    Hey I never said it would be easy for them at 40 :p but for all intensive purposes this poll says they skate clean in 2014. And S/Z have never been known to show up to an event anything less than fit and ready. Clean S/Z is a force, no one can deny that.

    S/S also sucked most of this season, and sucked at the Olympics in the FS. It would be a farce if a clean (we're pretending here) S/Z finished behind what the Germans put out. The nutcracker program is horrible for S/S. I think that they are immensely talented, but the direction they took is not at all something that fits with their strengths. Aliona skating as the nutcracker is an awful fit. Aliona skating as the pink panther on the other hand? That's a combination that works!

    But anyway, I don't see the growth in S/S since 2010, or maybe I'm just missing something.

    And as for S/Z being scored generously in 2010? I don't see it at all, except maybe in the FS where they almost lost the gold. They had amazing programs, better-than-ever quality on all elements, consistency, and they had all the bells and whistles for COP. Not to mention the legendary S/Z emotional impact all packaged into one. They were easily the worlds best in 2010, and I felt they were scored according to what they put out, I didn't feel they were gifted that season (except maybe the olympic FS)
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  17. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    If S/Z were competing, I doubt S/S would have attempted The Nutcracker.
     
  18. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    Well they wouldnt come back unless they were attempting difficulty they did in the past and able to skate it cleanly. Which is what makes this thread kind of silly anyway, as that was probably never realistic for a 40 year old male pairs skater and his 36 year old partner. What they were able to pull off in 2010 was already amazing, although at that time I wasnt surprised at all. The only way they would have come back is if the chinese fed. had begged a return as they didnt feel they had a gold contender at all otherwise, which would be the first time since 98 they didnt. Old Pang & Tong were never gold hopefuls in Sochi, they would have been happy with just a bronze, and probably werent ever getting even that.

    V&T were going to be given the gold as long as they didnt do more than fall twice anyway. S&S lost to them by more than 20 points, so you can probably give V&T 2 falls, take away S&S's two, and they still win. Actually V&T missed both throws even with the score they got, so maybe more than that. I was about to say even G&G in their primes reicarnated wouldnt have a hope, but I briefly forgot they are russian too, so that changes things drastically, but as for a non Russian forget it. If the Russians were able to somehow make Sotnikova beat a clean Yu Na Kim by 6 points, how could anyone beat V&T at this corrupted event, when they were probably the actual best team to begin with. :lol:
     
  19. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    I also wonder why S&S even went for the throw triple axel. I could understand it as a Hail Mary try of beating V&T had they gone clean to that point, but with their fall they werent going to be allowed to beat even a shaky V&T even with a quintruple throw to end landed well. An Olympic silver still should have meant something to them, given they only got bronze in Vancouver. Maybe they thought the judges wouldnt dare drop them behind S&K even with a 2nd fall. If they had a crystal ball and could see the ladies event to come, they probably would have been wiser and just done the salchow at that point.
     
  20. cbd1235

    cbd1235 Active Member

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    It was definitely really silly to do the axel, but I guess that's what they wanted to do. I wouldn't have advocated for that if I were the coach.....
     
  21. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    I have also heard many say Volosozhar and Savchenko have an intense personal rivalry that stems well back and cant stand each other. That must explain Savchenko's grand plans to carry on and conquer the world with Massot and declaring she is going to take the Olympic gold. She just cant let Volosozhar go perhaps. It could also explain her blaming anything she didnt achieve on Robin, dumping all over their 5 world title winning partnership, even suddenly saying they had all small tricks and he could never throw her far (lol). If she ever lost to Tatiana, it must be because Robin wasnt matching Maxim, since there is no way Tatiana would ever outdo her. Then when her fantasy of sweeping everything and crushing Tatiana at the 2018 Olympics comes true with Bruno she can boast it was all so. :lol:
     
  22. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Are S/S the first five-time World championship pairs team to not win an Olympic gold? At least since pairs skating became an Olympic event.
     
  23. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    Yes I believe they are. Rotter & Szollos won 4 world titles, including 3 straight the years between the 32 and 36 Olympics, yet won only bronze at both Olympics, alot like S&S.

    I dont believe there is any other pair in history besides those two that won more than 2, who failed to win Olympic Gold.
     
  24. coraczek

    coraczek Member

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    I think S/Z would be either 2nd or 3rd. I can't imagine how perfect their programmes would have to be to overtake V/T. Would S/Z risk just like S/S did?
     
  25. fracturedleg

    fracturedleg Member

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    Someone would need a quad twist, and two different quad throws, with a clean skate, to have a possability of overtaking V&T in Sochi. Even V&T who had mistakes on landings of both throws. Their two throws with hands down on one, and a touch down with the free foot on the other, both had some +3s in GOE, so had only minor impact on their score. Their PCS were littered with 10s in most of the categories.
     
  26. irishcream

    irishcream New Member

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    I voted silver. Had everyone gone clean and they been at their 2010 level I would say only bronze, but S&S had mistakes. V&T did too but not enough for S&Z to have beaten them. It would not have been a replay of 2010 which was theirs to lose from the start. It wouldnt have made any sense to come back really.
     
  27. ripingroar37

    ripingroar37 Member

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    The judges wouldnt dare mark them below silver. They are living legends and to place them below a team like Stolbova & Klimov and their Addams Family program or the Germans with 2 falls would cause an international uproar even if the russians themselves wouldnt care.

    It would probably be silver since V&T would have to fall a bunch of times to lose the gold, probably even to a clean S&S.
     
  28. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Although I would have hated to see S/Z compete just to lose the gold medal to the "will not be denied" by the judges V/T, at least they would have provided a coherent, well-choreographed program and sold it really well musically. Those pairs programs in Sochi were just meaningless transition, trick, generic arm in the sky in unison, another meaningless transition, trick...

    Pairs skating is the most boring discipline by far, even if V/T's amplitude and cleanliness of execution is great to see.
     
  29. frillit

    frillit Member

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    Silver obviously. No way a totally clean S&Z even now lose to immature Russian team or the Germans with 3 falls.

    Volosozhar & Trankov were unbeatable if they stood up for the Sochi games and deserved it based on the points system, but they will have to continue and create more emotional and masterpiece programs than they have thus far to make a mark in history. Right now their mark in history is about equal to a team like Totmianina & Marinin. People here their names and they think titles but zzzzz. Just titles.
     
  30. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    It depends on if they were at their 2010 level or if they regressed, they weren't even perfect when they won the gold in 2010. Four years later I would have assumed age and injuries would have done them in... perfect or not.