How good is Joannie Rochette as a skater?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by krenseby, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. krenseby

    krenseby New Member

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    Many people would assume that a figure skater who wins a bronze medal at the Olympics is one of the best skaters in the world, a skater who has achieved mastery in the sport.

    Would it be right to assume this about Joannie Rochette? Are there aspects of her skating, whether certain jumps or spins or perhaps footwork or stroking, that are particularly outstanding and deserve to be noticed and praised by skaters, coaches, and figure skating fans?

    If it would be wrong to assume that Joannie's skating is spectacular, then would it be better to simply evaluate her as an average skater who happened to win an Olympic bronze medal for arbitrary reasons?
     
  2. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    IMO - she is an outstanding skater.

    Her use of upper body and arms is one of the best in the business.

    I think many skaters have problems with a particular jump at a particular time.......of note, Joannie went back and re-worked her lutz so that it is true and dependable.

    IMO there is very little that is average about Joannie.
     
  3. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Joannie is the best jumper out there. How many other women can claim to be consistent and technically sound on all 5 triple jumps? Her bladework is also spectacular. She's very quiet and gains speed with a few strokes.

    One thing she is subpar in is her back flexibility and posture- her shoulders always seem high. Compare her to Oksana Baiul, for example. To me, that restricts her freedom of movement and makes her look stiff. However, I think her programs are built to minimize that, and her transitions are INSANE. She has more intricate programs than pretty much anyone. Besides, in COP posture and line really don't count for much :blah:

    Also, while her spins are centred and fast, they are nothing outstanding. Her spiral is also poor, which confuses me because her split falling leaf is amazing.

    Despite her faults, I think she is one of the best skaters of the post-2006. She's certainly my favourite. It's a shame she let her nerves get to her, because she definitely had the goods to be a multiple world medallist/champion.
     
  4. krenseby

    krenseby New Member

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    Do you think COP should somehow be changed to reward line and posture more?
     
  5. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    Ideally, yes I think it should. Or rather I think poor posture and line should be more harshly punished. I don't think Joannie is the most egregious example of poor posture, I think she does the best within her capabilities and usually she is not unpleasant or jarring to look at. She has fair posture, not particularly bad or good.

    I'm thinking more along the lines of Rachel Flatt, Miki Ando, and Yu Na Kim from the knees down (how that hideous spiral ever got +3's, I'll never know, I can see her speed and depth of edge giving her a +1, but that's all ... her overall carriage is quite lovely though). I may be old fashioned, but I love seeing pointed toes, a stretched neck, and straight knees, it gives such an air of polish and class. You don't have to be Oksana, but you can at least look like you've heard the term "ballet" before. Unfortunately I think COP focuses so much on the minutiae and individual elements that the overall flow and look of a program, including things like posture and line, are forgotten. To bring it back to Joannie, one thing she does well is she never seems to be plodding from one element to the next, but is actually concerned with the program as a whole and making things cohesive.
     
  6. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    :confused: Joannie and poor posture don't even belong in the same sentence. Rochette is amazing! :encore: She always presents herself very well and her team did a terrific job packaging her. She is a complete skater from head to toe. Her admitted shortcoming has always been spinning. Sure, she may not be flashy with her flexibility or make you say "WOW!" when you see her layback spin or her spirals, but she finishes her positions very well and has good stretch within her limitations. She is such a musical skater and always showcases her strengths (power, speed, strong skating skills, transitions, and steady jumps) so well! Talking purely about skating ability (skating skills), if I could skate like any female skater in today's skating world, it would be a combination of Rochette, Carolina Kostner, and Yu-Na Kim. :)
     
  7. Sulphur

    Sulphur New Member

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    Joannie is an amazing skater and one of the best female skaters since 2000 in my opinion. She absolutely deserves her bronze at the Olympics, too. I used to think she has the goods to be a world medalist multiple times (five triples, decent spins, superb skating skills and speed) but she lets her nerves get to her, but that's before the 2010 Olympics. She's probably more mentally pressured than anyone at that competition and she eventually overcame all that. I admire her as a skater as well as a person.
     
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  8. walei

    walei Well-Known Member

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    IIRC Joannie was THIS CLOSE to get the silver had she land her 2axle.
     
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  9. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Joannie's a good skater, but I would disagree that she is a good JUMPER. A lot of her landings are questionable (turning out, stepping out..) and even though she jumps all five triples, up until about the last couple of years they were not consistent. When she skates I still have to hold my breath on every jump wondering if she's going to fall or not, whereas when Yu-Na or Miki skate, I assume they're going to land the jump. However, Joannie is one of the best skaters out there artistry-wise right now.
     
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  10. Ozzisk8tr

    Ozzisk8tr Well-Known Member

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    When I first saw Joannie skate the thing that struck me was her amazing posture. She didn't have that Miki Ando thing about flashing your ring at the audience, she stood up with the most beautiful carriage when she was stroking. Triple toe I think you have the whole thing about the posture 100% wrong, hers is one of the best.
     
  11. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I think she is an outstanding skaters. Her basic skating, edgework, ice coverage are all up there with the best IMO. Her jumping, as others have noted is also right up there. I personally give her many props for going back and sorting out the flutz, I don't think abny other skater has put that much work into reworking one jump. She has, again IMO, the best triple salchow out there.

    The only thing I would say being nitpicky is that she sometimes looked stiff in the upper body. She had great posture and lines but sometimes the upper body looked too stiff.
     
  12. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    She is a great skater but I feel there's something missing, like an extra spark that makes her special. No matter how frustrating Nagasu can be at times, she has that quality when she's on. But kudos to her for attempting all of the triples sans the axel.
     
  13. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

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    i agree she may have the jumps but something is lacking in her programs, I just simply don't see what's so great about her, even through she has been competing for so long i haven't see one program from her that gives the wow factor. but i have to say she is a very consistent skater..
     
  14. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    Joannie was a very solid #3 in Vancouver. She had what it takes to be #1 or #2 if Mao and Yu Na falter. I hope people don't look back at the results and think she only won a medal because of the location or because of pity from her mothers death.
     
  15. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    She's a very complete skater who has all the goods. What she lacks is the 'it' factor that gave skaters like Michelle or Sasha an edge, or the high-level jumping content of some of her contemporaries (Asada, Kim, Ando, Kostner). I think this is what she would have needed to climb to the very top. In this sense, I would consider her to be somewhat stronger Suguri, and a little bit weaker than Arakawa.
     
  16. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    The first thing that really caught my eye about her skating was actually her musicality. Some may disagree but I always felt she had an innate sense of musicality. Besides all the strengths that people have listed out, I really think she has very strong interpretative ability. But I think her low-profile, more introverted kind of pesonality prevents her from really expressing herself fully on the ice. I also remember Joannie saying in the past that she has been too obsessed with keeping the perfect posture which made her skating come across as somewhat stiff. But in the past two years I've noticed changes in that aspect too. For that reason I think she's really starting to come into her own and it would be a shame if she just retires from competition now :(
     
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  17. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    I'm no techie, but I think she's great!
     
  18. krenseby

    krenseby New Member

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    Well, that decision is up to her to make, although I do understand that some fans would love for her to continue.
     
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  19. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Joannie is a very, very good skater. Deep edges, strong jumps, interesting choreos.
    Maybe not the best lines, but definitely one of my favorite skater, ever. :)
     
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  20. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she won because of pity, but she wasn't a lock for it going in. On a different night with slightly different performances it could have very well gone to Miki or Mirai.. I actually would have given the edge to Mirai there but.. *shrug*
     
  21. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    She's my favorite of the past 6 years, and I'm a very hard-to-please figure skating fan. Her programs since 2005 were the best of any lady every single season. She is very versatile with her program choices, and her commitment to the choreography every time she gets out there. I love watching her skate around, and her jumps are my spectacular. I can't think of any lady who has a better 3toe, 3sal, 3loop, or 3flip. Her edges and speed blow me away, and whenever she's in a competition I find myself looking forward to her performances more than any of the other ladies.
     
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  22. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised people are knocking Joannie's posture. She's not Sasha Cohen, but she's certainly above average in that area IMO. The only real weakness, as another poster pointed out, is her limited flexibility, which matters to get levels in CoP. I think her musical interpretation was excellent as were her skating skills.
     
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  23. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    ITA. Except when she was on, Arakawa had the 'it' factor.

    Joanne was well-packaged and David Wilson created beautiful and complex programs that worked to her advantage. But I never found her to be an exciting skater.

    Her Olympic bronze was well earned and poignantly timed, given her loss of her mom. Her clear SP at the Olympics was a moment both amazing and sad which many will always remember.

    However, I will always think of Joannie as one of the best, not 'the best' or a great skater. It was her relative consistency that stood her apart. Kostner, Nagasu and Alissa are equally good, if not better skaters, they just lack Joannie's consistency.
     
  24. ainouta

    ainouta Well-Known Member

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    I think one thing that stands out to me about Joannie's skating is her edges. When Joannie skates, I always watch her feet, and how deep and smooth her edges are. The musicality and complexity in her skating comes from her use of edges and footwork, which is something I can't say for any other ladies' skater today.
     
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  25. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    IMO she is a better skater than Nancy Kerrigan who won an Olympic silver (and was probably robbed of the gold that year) and Miki Ando who is a 2 time World Champion. If anything she is unlucky to not have achieved more compare to some others. It is too bad she didnt skate at Worlds this year, she probably would have won unless she had a really off competition.

    Czisny is definitely not a better skater. She is slow, has mediocre skating skills, and her jumps are much weaker even with a cleanish skate. Nagasu skated lights out in Vancouver and easily lost to Rochette who didnt skate cleanly so obviously she isnt better yet either, she has potential and talent to become better if she puts in the work of course. Kostner is hard to evaluate since she has never skated cleanly with her top jump content ever.
     
  26. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I'm surprised to hear people call Joannie's consistency one of her strong points. This is the woman who won qualifying at the 2006 Worlds with a seven triple free skate but disappointed in the free and short to miss the podium. This is the lady who has an eleven spot difference between her short and her free at the 2007 worlds (she was 16th after the SP, 5th in the free, 10th overall). Her Olympic season was marred by faulty skates throughout.

    For me, Joannie never had "it" - but so few skaters do that it doesn't bug me. What she does have is lovely artistry/interpretation (I particularly love her Aranjuez), strong jumps, gorgeous edges and some lovely programs that highlight her strengths. She may not be an all time list skater, but I'll certainly revisit some of her programs.
     
  27. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    Agreed


    Agreed.


    Here I disagree. She didn't become GFP champion with poor skills. Her spins are the best in the world and when she is on, her jumps are fine. She's not as powerful as a skater as Joannie, but she has a soulful, gentle quality which elicits the wow factors.

    It's relative. Although it was rare for Joannie to skate two clean programs - in fact, I don't know that it ever happened - she stayed on her feet more than others did.
     
  28. Blair

    Blair New Member

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    All her jumps are spectacular and technically perfect, but her 3loop is such a corker. On the approach to that jump I'm always thinking "3...2...1...Takeoff!"

    IMO, her 3loop easily rivals Midori's and Tonya's.

    When it comes right down to it, Joannie's only weakness is her flexibility. All her other skills are stellar and she deserves her place among Olympic medallists.
     
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  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Since when was Joannie ever known for consistency?? :confused: She was always a hot and cold skater, and rarely put two very strong programs out at a competition. She's no headcase, but not a Miki Ando either when it comes to triple jump consistency.
     
  30. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've gotta agree with that, I always found her rather inconsistent, at least up until the last two seasons she competed..