How can Russia reverse its decline in Ice Dance?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Feb 13, 2013.

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Can Russia win the 2018 Olympics in Ice Dance?

Poll closed Mar 16, 2013.
  1. Yes

    47 vote(s)
    65.3%
  2. No

    18 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Don't Know

    7 vote(s)
    9.7%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Between 1984 and 2006, the USSR/Russia dominated Ice Dance, winning all but 1 of the Olympic titles in the event during that period. The exception was 2002, won by Marina Anisina & Gwendal Peizerat of France, and even then Marina Anisina originally came from and skated for the USSR/Russia. Furthermore, between the retirement of Towler & Ford in 1969 and the rise of Torvill & Dean, the USSR also dominated the event, winning the 1976 and 1980 Olympic titles. Hence, the USSR/Russia, have won 7 of the last 10 Olympic titles in the event

    After 2006, the balance of power in Ice Dance began to shift decisively towards North America, with the rise of Virtue & Moir, and Davis & White.

    So, what went wrong with Russian Ice Dance, and what can they do to start producing world and Olympic champions in the event again?

    A major factor behind the decline in my view was the emigration of many top quality coaches from Russia during the 1990's and early 2000's, after the collapse of the USSR. During that same period, there was also a sharp decline in investment in the sport in Russia. However, after winning the right to host the 2014 Olympics, there has been a huge injection of money into the sport and there has also been improvements in the coaching system and the way the sport is organised. Will this turn matters around in Ice Dance for Russia?
     
  2. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Abandon its traditional view of what ice dance is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  3. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    After V/M and D/W retire the power will shift back to Russia, I think. They have too many good young couples and in Elena and Nikita they know they have a gem waiting to be polished. I dunno, after Sochi I think everything will be more clear
     
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  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Virtue & Moir are certain to retire after Sochi. Davis & White though might go until 2018, and if they do they might have a good shot (regardless of if they win in 2014 or not). Then again the judges might get tired of their dominance by then, particularly if they win the 2013 Worlds and 2014 Olympics over V&M as well, and start letting younger teams challenge them.

    Beyond the D&W factor I think they have a good shot. I see the young Russian teams of today generally from now on being ahead of Weaver & Poje, and the other young Canadian and American teams. I guess it depends alot on new emerges.
     
  5. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    All the Russian teams have shown the possibility of being behind s/s, w/p, c/l and p/b only if they start really changing the whole aspect of program design will they not be 5 and 6 at a gpf and also challenge for world and Olympic medals.
     
  6. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Changes in the rules of ice dance, particularly COP, also dropping the compulsory dance, Russian coaches moving to the west, have all contributed to the decline.
     
  7. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I have always wondered why Russia churns out so many Jr World Champs in ice dance and yet have comparatively less success in the seniors. Look at Bobrova & Soloviev, they won JWs one year after Virtue & Moir, and the best they've done at Worlds is 6th, which V&M got the year after winning juniors. I&K have done ok but even the Shibutanis had more success out of the gate.

    It's sad, today's top Russian teams would have done no better than 5th or 6th at the Russian Nationals during the good old days.
     
  8. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Russia will win the Olympic gold in 2018. Can they? Yes. Will they? Probably not. I think V/M will surely have retired but D/W will still be there. Teams like W/P, Chock/Bates and Gilles/Poirier are also on the rise. I could see a team like Sinitsina/Zhiganshin challenging for the podium.
     
  9. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    Oh gods no. That would make me give up on Ice Dance completely, forever.

    I've been waiting for the day V&M and D&W retire since the beginning of the freaking quad.
     
  10. bek

    bek Guest

    I don't know why its assumed that one of the Russian teams won't be able to break through. I don't really think the teams you are mentioning have shown themselves to be that spectacular... And D/W are going to be that much older and I wouldn't be surprised if folks will be looking for something new....

    I think the Russians have enough talent, its only a matter of time.
     
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  11. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    Wishful thinking.

    Too many people have gotten used to the NA dominance and don't wanna see those evil Russians get even minor medals ever again.
     
  12. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    In the case of b/s they had a coach who was extremely complacent and did not adjust properly to seniors. You could say d/s and k/n made them number three but the coach was publicly disbelieving of technical elements called lower than 4. They are also prone to mistakes.

    Zhulin coached I/k to world jr gold but was himself So busy he was barely coach in their sr debut and always liked to say he didn't want them working too hard too early so they would peak not at their first gp but worlds which he doesn't seem to realize may have created habits for I/k where they only really train to their fullest before euros worlds Whig means that during gp they don't really look that good.

    So with these coaches you can see how so many good ones leaving for the us has damaged Russian ice dance
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  13. Autumn_girl

    Autumn_girl Active Member

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    With young teams like I/K, S/Z and S/B I'd say Russian chances are very high. I don't think teams like Weaver/Poje, Chock/Bates, the Shibutanis and Gilles/Poirier are anywhere close to the V/M and D/W level, and for sure they are beatable for the young Russians + Bobrova/Soloviev.
     
  14. analia

    analia Active Member

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    It's going to be a Russian quad next quad. Russia is gonna have 4 world junior champions in a roll. I/K, M/K, S/Z, and certainly S/B this year. They are all better than the NA junior teams. Aldridge/Eaton has been on the junior circuit forever and no one ever considers them a real threat due to obvious look issue. The only junior dance team with great potential is Papadakis/Cizeron.

    Weaver/Poje isn't a young team. They are older than V/M, with injury issues too. No certainty they won't retire after Sochi. G/P is just meh, same with Chock/Bates. The Shibs are hopeless unless they grow out of their goofy schoolboy/girl style. It's quite obvious next quad will see a Russian podium sweep early on.
     
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  15. analia

    analia Active Member

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    It's going to be a Russian quad next quad. Russia is gonna have 4 world junior champions in a roll. I/K, M/K, S/Z, and certainly S/B this year. They are all better than the NA junior teams. Aldridge/Eaton has been on the junior circuit forever and no one ever considers them a real threat due to obvious look issue. The only junior dance team with great potential is Papadakis/Cizeron.

    Weaver/Poje isn't a young team. They are older than V/M, with injury issues too. No certainty they won't retire after Sochi. G/P is just meh, same with Chock/Bates. The Shibs are hopeless unless they grow out of their goofy schoolboy/girl style. It's quite obvious next quad will see a Russian podium sweep early on.
     
  16. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Simple - give them some decent bloody music and programs instead of the crap that most of them are skating to these days.
     
  17. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    I think they can. Russian has a strong tradition in figure skating. Their time will come. You cannot create champions overnight. Be patient.:)
     
  18. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Interesting that nobody has brought up C&L as a threat to the Russians or the NA. Will they be able to dominate?
     
  19. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    C/l is very possible. They narrowly fell behind both Russian teams at euros after beating both at gpf. And almost beat both at worlds 2012 and wtt. So euros was problematic for c/l in the sd and they couldn't recover but have great records for 2014 2018
     
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    What decline?

    Russian Junior teams are dominating the Junior circuit and Russian senior teams just placed 1st, 2nd and 4th at Euros.
     
  21. Autumn_girl

    Autumn_girl Active Member

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    Only if Anna significally improves her basic skating, but I think that's unlikely. Same about Madison Chock. All of the young Russians have much better basics then them, IMO
     
  22. DarrellH

    DarrellH New Member

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    I think that part of the decline can also be attributed to Russia's rise in singles.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  23. aka_gerbil

    aka_gerbil Rooting for the Underdogs

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    W/P are the exact same ages as V/M. 23/25 is actually quite young for a dance team, and the injury issue Kaitlyn encountered with her broken leg is not like the chronic condition Tessa Virtue has. W/P have also already indicated that they plan to continue past Sochi.
     
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  24. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't V&M young enough to go for a third Olympic medal? That's regardless of whether or not they can repeat as OGM in 2014. The odds there are still in their favor.
     
  25. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Aldridge/Eaton have been on the JGP circuit for 3 years, about the same time as Stepanova/Bukin and Kosigina / Moroshkin, one year less than Papadakis / Cizeron, and two years less than Zenkova/Sinitsin. A/E have won two gold medals on the JGP this year, and have JGPF bronze and a 2012 JW bronze.

    I am not sure what you mean by "obvious look issue", and given A/E's international successes, I wonder who the "no one" are that considers A/E not a threat.
     
  26. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    And maybe due to North America's rise in ice dancing ;)
     
  27. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    V/M have made it clear that the Sochi Olympics will be their last competition.
     
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  28. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    that's a good way to kill variety in ice dance.

    btw, I see I/K winning in 2018 as they are Olympic gold material.
     
  29. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Success first creativity second!

    Worlds medal last in 2009 seniors! I think it's clear that euros being so close to Russian nationals might mean the training is at it's best.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  30. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Junior success doesn't necessarily mean anything, look at Romanavskaya/Grachev, Mikhailova/Sergeev, and Gorshkova/Butikov. I have a feeling Monko/Khalavian and Pushkash/Guerreiro are heading the same way, and Sinitsina/Zhiganshin might if they don't change coaches.

    And this Euros was the weakest probably ever. European ice dancing is dying along with the Russian school, especially once P&B retire. DomShabs bronze in 2010 was the worst result at the Olympics for the #1 Russian team (they had always won gold or at least silver), and it's looking very possible there will be no medal at all in Sochi. This is also the longest streak they have gone without a medal at Worlds, and given that the Russian teams were 5th and 6th at GPF (without W&P), there is no guarantee of a medal, only a chance. I can't remember a time before when Russians were not considered gold medal threats, even if they didn't actually win. Even DomShabs were a gold medal contender.