Hospital Nurse Who Took Kate Hoax Call Found Dead

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by lurvylurker, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read the entire thread or all the news articles but I don't get why everyone assumes that this nurse committed suicide or did so because of this prank call. This kind of stuff follows celebrities wherever they go (hotels, hospitals etc.). I'm sure the staff gets schooled on it whenever they have VIP's registered. That this particular staff got taken in isn't something to die over.
    I get that hospitals have rules. It could have been an employer, insurance co, or a hostile attorney making the call, but it wasn't in this case.
    I'm not sure why they would give the information out to anyone, Kate is an adult, and she wasn't unconscious was she? Let her tell her family how she is doing. Someone got uber excited to be talking to the queen.
     
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  2. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, I can't believe for a second any nurse (or anyone else) would think the Queen or Prince would call a hospital like that? I;m sure they have better protocol than that...like calling William's mobile phone! They were taken in and it shouldn't have happened. The first nurse should have said "I will give word to the Duchess that you called, thank you and goodbye." The fact that it got to a second nurse who DID give out information on Kate was ridiculous and she should have been disciplined or worse. I doubt someone would be able to call a hospital that Brad Pitt was in pretending to be his wife, who wouldn't see right thought that? I don't know the reason for her suicide but the DJs are not responsible for her not doing her job properly and regretting it.
     
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  3. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    I am not an expert on what the Queen or Prince Charles would or would not do, but only the time of the call seems that unreasonable. Using a mobile phone is surely the worst thing imaginable, since these are very easily hackable. Plus they have to be switched off in most hospital rooms because they may interfere with the equipment.

    Also don't presume to know how much the nurse had integrated the Western notions of privacy, even though apparently she had immigrated to the UK ten years ago. I've come to France fifteen years ago but still sometimes find myself taken aback at what the French call "respecting the privacy" and what for us would have been "appalling indifference to others' situation and unforgivable rudeness".

    Of course the family would call in a situation like that! Not only the family, but friends, colleagues, neighbours, everyone and his uncle - and they would all be put through unless the patient had asked not to be disturbed. I am not claiming that this other extreme is perfect, but try living like this for thirty years and then switching to the place where we should be surprised that a grandmother-in-law should pick up the phone and enquire after her sick granddaughter. What is the Queen supposed to do, tell her butler to make the phone call? I suppose William should also not go to visit her and send his good wishes via an ambassador? ;)

    The job of a nurse is to care for patients, not to conduct the royal family's relations with the press. Brad Pitt would probably have his own employees to filter all contact with the public. Maybe the royal family should do that too.

    The first nurse was doing a job that was not her own by replying phones at the standard. She made a split-second decision at 5:30 am when she had been working all night and she made the wrong decision. Maybe you can always react perfectly to totally unusual situations even when you are exhausted, but I am quite sure that I would have made a mistake. So I sympathise with her. As for the second nurse, apparently she didn't give out information that wasn't already in the public domain.

    I feel for the DJs, really! They were probably payed to be silly and superficial and they were doing just that. On the other end of the phone they had the nurses on night shift, dealing with sick people and concerned families. Is it surprising that these people weren't on the same wavelength?
     
  4. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    When there are high profile patients, ie celebrities, royalties, athletes, staying at a place like hospital, there are protocols established by the patient's staff and the hospital staff. I guarantee you that in no situation would the Queen have directly dial the hospital general phone number directly. She or someone on her staff would have had a 24-hr direct personal number to a contact person(s) at the hospital and they then go from there.
     
  5. taf2002

    taf2002 Texas slumlord

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    Well, this changes things. I read a statement made by the two who called the hospital. The man DJ said the prank was his idea, not a directive by his boss(es). So now it can't be said that they were told to do it. (In my mind it doesn't really matter whose idea it was, but some people seem to think if their boss tells them to do something, they have to do it.) BTW right or wrong, the two DJ's are on indefinite leave.

    I don't feel sorry for them because they took it too far when they didn't hang up when they were transferred to Kate's floor. They say they were only expecting to reach the hospital operator & to be denied further access. But they reached a woman who was apparently not an native English speaker & who didn't recognize that their accents weren't correct. At that point common sense should have kicked in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
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  6. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

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    It was their idea, but as it was vetted by people higher up, putting it on air wasn't actually their decision.

    And of course they didn't hang up. While calling them journalists would be a stretch (a BIG stretch)...no journalist would hang up seconds before getting the scoop of a lifetime. They called to see what would happen. They expected to be hung up on, but when that didn't happen, they hung around to see what would.

    Also, according to the station, the hospital were contacted by the station 5 times to discuss whether or not they had any objection to putting the call on air. The hospital never called them back. It seems the hospital had ample opportunity to end it all before it went public and prevent it going on air, which is new information.

    Finally, the DJs have been undergoing counselling and were in tears during much of the interview, said they felt sick about what had happened, apologised and owned up to it being their idea. Their show has been cancelled, they've been suspended and might be fired. Isn't this what people wanted? Yet I somehow doubt the vilification will end now.
     
  7. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

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    Nobody wins---everybody loses. What a sad mess.
     
  8. skatingfan5

    skatingfan5 Well-Known Member

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    Well, despite taking liberties in describing Kate as her "granddaughter", Greig definitely DID say she was the Queen (from the phone call transcript, when talking to the second nurse):
    That is what the station is saying -- that they called so see if the hospital had any objection -- but perhaps they were instead asking for permission? In that case, if the hospital did not call them back, it could be taken as a "No". But only the hospital and the radio station know what the exact nature of the calls were and how much information (if any) was exchanged during those calls.

    Yes, a very sad situation starting from a stupid, thoughtless "prank." :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  9. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Surely there was a direct line. I'm sorry I wasn't very clear, but the paragraph you quoted continued from the one just before it, i.e. that a person like this nurse who is an immigrant from an Asian country would "feel" it was normal to pass the call. Maybe not if she had a few minutes to think about it, but if she had to decide in one second at 5:30am, surely her gut feeling would be to connect the person.

    OTOH it's pretty clear that neither of the nurses had been aware of any protocol between the hospital and the royal family. Otherwise they would have been disciplined and the hospital would have been pretty happy to have some individuals to blame.
     
  10. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

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    We don't really have a full picture of what happened. The hospital stated after she was found dead that there were no disciplinary procedures being faced...but how do we know that Jacintha didn't think there would be? How do we know she wasn't torn to shreds verbally, behind the scenes?

    Her brother is saying she died of shame, but how much did he know about his sister's mental state to begin with? And if she did 'die of shame', doesn't that imply that she, at least, felt she had done something wrong?

    There are still so many facts missing, and the media's excessive involvement in this really doesn't help anyone. The story is feeding itself, rehashing the same things over and over without producing anything new. Kind of like this thread :lol:

    It's a very, very sad situation, for everyone. Hopefully the station revisits its policy on pranks, and everyone thinks before doing them in future.
     
  11. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Other than a news story this morning on the show being canceled and a brief clip of the DJ's tearful interview it's gone from US news. You're probably seeing a lot more of it over there.
     
  12. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    If I had to guess I would say that nurse 1 put the call through thinking nurse 2 would know how to vett it. Nurse 2 probably assumed that nurse 1 had verified the caller. It doesn't sound like the information nurse 2 gave out greatly upset the royals or the hospital. It only became a big deal when the DJ's publicized it. Did they give out the nurse's name, or did the press put it out there?

    The first I heard of this story was when they found her dead. Was it a big story in Britain? The DJs were in Australia.
     
  13. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    It was just reported on UK news that the hospital have claimed that neither their management nor the company responsible for media enquiries has spoken to the radio station regarding this matter. So clearly different sides to the story there. However as I understand it, the Australian law requires permission to be granted before broadcasting a hoax call. It wasn't given, no matter how many times they tried to ring so I don't really see the point of them trying to raise this as some kind of defence.
     
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    ITA. First of all, it was invasion of privacy, using a lie. An innocent person became a victim, even though they did not intend it to end that way. For that alone they should lose their license- JMO, but it depends on the law in their country. The DJs deserve all the criticism they are getting, and IMO they deserve to be fired. The radio station that allowed pranks has to bear some responsibility too. The death threats are wrong, however. I don't see how the nurses were at fault. The DJs claimed that their accents were so bad that they were surprised the call was put through. They can't blame the nurses for not understanding the difference between good vs bad imitations of different accents.
     
  15. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    You never know how someone, especially a total stranger, is going to react to any situation, but you can't go through life walking on eggshells around everybody. Look at the April Fools' threads that pop up at FSU every April? Don't you think it's possible that someone could've passed out - or worse - after opening one of those threads? It's possible; Anything can happen. Before the death of the nurse, I think most people thought the radio prank was harmless, even amusing, but now they're saying it's wrong, mean-spirited, etc. If the prank was 'wrong' then it should've been called out as wrong before the nurse's death and not only after.
     
  16. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    From the story I read on CNN, there were more negative comments than positive ones about the prank BEFORE the nurse's death. I will look for the link and post it here.

    I don't agree with your comparison with fsu. This board is not a public thing like a radio station, and we don't have very famous people, like the British royalties, here- AFAIK (correct me if I am wrong :) )

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/10/world/europe/uk-royal-hospital-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    From the article:

    "Off the air, Greig and Christian tweeted about the practical joke on Thursday and earlier Friday, promising "more on the #royalprank." The pair's Twitter accounts were taken down late Friday.

    Some listeners applauded the prank, like one who identified himself as Guido on the station's Facebook page and wrote, "It is only a joke people! it was great i love it!!!"

    Others were outraged, with negative comments outnumbering positive ones on 2DayFM's Facebook page even before the nurse's death.

    "Your stunt was done at a time in this country where there is paranoia about the intrusion of the media into people's lives," Gary Slenders wrote. "I know you will say it is harmless fun, the management of 2DayFM will say that it won't happen again, but this is exactly where the phone hacking scandal started"
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  17. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Uh, no.
     
  18. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

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    I think it's bigger in Australia, to be honest.
     
  19. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    What I think is that you are like a dog with a bone and you won't give up until everyone either agrees with you or shuts up. But your characterization of what happened is not the same as mine and it won't be mine no matter how many times you repeat yourself.
     
  20. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    I am curious to know who you believe was bullied. I agree that this hoax was wrong and inexcusable. However, I don't think they ever actually bullied or mocked the nurse who took her own life. They did something awesomely stupid and ignorant. It became cruel, but I don't believe they can be responsible for another person's choices.

    I think they should be fired and I think the radio station should be penalized, in some way.

    This is such a sad thing :(
     
  21. leesaleesa

    leesaleesa Active Member

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    I don't know the laws regarding PHI in England, but in the U.S., if I were to call your insurance or health care providers to get your information, the person who is in the wrong is the person who gives out the information. The person who obtains the information has legally done nothing wrong, unless they share this information, which is in effect what the DJ's did by broadcasting the stunt. Both parties can be held liable for not protecting the patient's information.
     
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    In her culture a brother would know how she must have felt, whether she actually told him or not. You are dealing with a different culture where every letter of the alphabet is not shredded and analyzed. I tend to believe the brother for her state of mind, because he knows the culture. I assume her husband knows too but he may be too traumatized to talk about it.
     
  23. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    He obviously didn't know she was fragile enough that this would make her kill herself. Hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to blame this as the trigger, it may have been, but I don't believe this one isolated incident is the sole reason she committed suicide. Mentally stable people don't commit suicide. I've both found a friend who committed suicide, and been the last person to speak to another friend before she did the same. It's easy to want to blame, but these people had plenty of options to seek help, and loving families they left behind, but it wasn't enough for them. I honestly believe that there were signs for one of them, and we read them, but she still chose to kill herself and not get help. For the other, I didn't see any signs; no one did. I knew a sensitive person, but I was surprised. But we don't blame anyone - she didn't give us signs, she didn't ask for help. Even in hindsight, I can't see any signs. I believe both were mentally unstable, and I don't believe it's a sudden decision, but a culmination of things. Some people just keep things bottled up. It's much easily to "know" things once someone has died - but how you can state someone "would know how she felt" because he's her brother - do you really think in Indian culture, brothers know all? That's weird. No one ever knows completely how another person feels.

    This says what the radio station is doing to stop this from happening again. It sounds like hospital is doing nothing, no counselling for the family, no public declaration that the correct people will be manning the phones, or that nurses and the hospital will learn not to reveal confidential information so easily, and put systems in place to stop this from happening. The radio station, no doubt, has plenty to learn from this situation, but so does the hospital.
     
  24. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    I guess your definition of bullying differs from mine. I agree, it's a very sad thing.
     
  25. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    What's yours?
     
  26. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Doing anything that is intended to humiliate or embarrass someone else.

    Is this sort of thing common in Australia?
     
  27. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Your definition of bullying is what I would define as mean. Doing it over and over would make it bullying.

    I guess it depends on what you consider common; I only listen to Australian radio for a couple of weeks a year and never hear them - but that may also be because I don't listen to these kinds of stations, or because it's Christmas. I don't remember hearing them when I lived there, but again, I don't listen to these kinds of stations. I barely listen to commercial radio.
     
  28. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Do it once to one person or do it 20 times to 20 people-I call it bullying. You disagree and I'm okay with that but this thread is getting very tiresome so I'll drop out. :)
     
  29. Angelskates

    Angelskates Well-Known Member

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    Doing it 20 times to 20 people makes you a bully, but it doesn't make the 20 people victims of bullying. Do it to the same person 20 times and you're a bully and that person is being bullied. It's the habitual behaviour given to or from a person that makes it different. Mean behaviour is sometimes just that, mean.
     
  30. duane

    duane New Member

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    The purpose of a practical joke is to gets laughs over someone's fear, embarrassment or humiliation, so anyone who's ever played one is a bully.