Hospital Nurse Who Took Kate Hoax Call Found Dead

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by lurvylurker, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. numbers123

    numbers123 Well-Known Member

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    There have been some incidents like this (maybe not the president, but high profile people) and nurses or other hospital employees have been duped to believe and give out information unwittingly. At times the hospitals have fired the nurses or other staff involved. But humans are humans - they do become star struck and may make mistakes.

    To me the radio commentators are the ones who should be the ones responsible for all of this. They know better, they only wanted ratings, they totally disregarded any ethical behavior. The Royals, the hospital and most of all the front line staff are the persons who are affected the most by this stunt.
  2. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Brits are famous for their stiff upper lip, so I would attribute Charles' reaction to some sort of defense mechanism.

    William is rumored to loath the press, and that's an attitude that could make his whole life extremely difficult. His wife has now been violated 2x by the media, so he's probably feeling awful. His dad might be trying to downplay the significance in an attempt to create an environment where the family just ignores or brushes off the these types of things. After all, what else can they do? The punishment for this sort of thing never, EVER fits the crime.

    Sometimes when something traumatic happens, treating it like the huge solemn trauma it is can make it a bit worse. There's got to be a balance between recognizing the severity of an incident and picking yourself up to move on. I don't think Charles deserves any criticism here. He certainly made his comments before the news of this poor woman's death had spread.

    (wow, who knew I cared about the old guy so much?)

    In the meantime, the news of this woman's death is just breathtakingly horrible. There's no way a caring, feeling person can adjust to this kind of notoriety so quickly, and in such harsh light. So sad...
  3. centerstage01

    centerstage01 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly? Yes. If the hospital has instructed their staff that they are not to give out any info at all unless the person on the other end of the line had a password or some other form of security question they can answer, then they are not to tell anyone anything. If it really was the President and the nurse in question was called on the carpet for not telling him anything, he or she can answer with confidence that security protocol was not followed and the rules are the rules. No sane administrator is going to fire someone for following their own instructions.

    And yes, I was one of the people saying the nurse(s) in question should have been fired for letting such calls slip through, but it's my own fault for not fully comprehending the level of media obsession aimed at these women. I take that back and apologize. With any other normal patient, it probably would have been a stiff reprimand from the hospital and everyone going on with their day. But this media insanity took it to level one billion and what should have been a slap on the hand turned into a horrible, horrible tragedy.

    The DJs in question are (I hope) feeling remorse for their stunt and I also hope they do something to help the children who are now without their mother. Their half-hearted apology earlier didn't cut it for me at all. People don't need to be calling the DJs with death threats, they need to be talking to each other about how crap like this can go too far and how to avoid it in the future. But that may be optimistic to the point of ludicrous.
  4. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    I am absolutely disgusted and shocked by this. This poor woman was probably hounded by all those souls out there calling for her head and just couldn't take it.

    I think there is more than enough blame to go around, including the DJ's who started it, the media who kept up on it and many members of the public who worked on her with cyber bullying or phone calls etc. When Prince Charles is making a joke of it the next day, people should have realized that the Royals weren't going to make a huge issue of it, but some people in this day and age don't realize that what they do by themselves is multiplied by hundreds and thousands out there in our connected world and soon one person saying something bad becomes an avalanche of hate.

    Kate and William are probably feeling terrible about this. What a horrendous shadow to cast over one of the most amazing times of their lives. No, it wasn't their fault, but since it is connected to them I'm sure they feel it acutely.
  5. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    The system in the hospitals around here is to give the person admitting the patient (or the patient if they're not accompanied by anyone) a pin number. If you call from out of town or wherever the staff on duty can give you information only if you have that number. I thought that was SOP in the US but maybe not.
  6. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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    That's how we do it also; give the main family contact a patient access number to share with family and anyone else who may legitimately call about the patient. No access number, no information. Period.
  7. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Technically, due to HIPPA laws- yes, I think a hospital could fire the nurse in that situation. Even the president would need to be specifically authorized to get updates on his daughter-in-law. However, I also think a President, who is very aware of the law wouldn't ever put a nurse in that situation. But if you were the Queen, and you called and were told "I'm so sorry, I am really not allowed to release that information" rather than feeling rebuked, wouldn't you feel like it was good that your granddaughter-in-law, who is so hounded by the press, had her privacy protected?


    I feel awful for this woman, because, if England has the same confidentiality laws, she clearly didn't feel comfortable saying no. And then she clearly felt very very badly about what she had done, and couldn't handle the bullying she has since received from the internet. But I do think she made an honest mistake, and from what I hear from English friends someone wouldn't be fired for this- just rebuked and retrained. I think the DJs deserve the blame for this situation, even for her suicide, if it is proven to be one. Because even if she was mentally in trouble before, there is a reason you don't mess with the minds of people you don't know. The prank was never meant to be on the royals, they didn't ask to speak to Kate- it was meant to be on the hospital workers. And it was extremely mean-spirited. Even if they only meant to hang up after being told no when their supposedly horrible accents were heard, once it got further than that, the DJs should have put the phone down.

    And by extension, I feel awful for William and Kate. They have to feel guilty for their association, even though they are truly blameless here.
  8. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

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    We have been given a number at check in with my dad's hospitalizations lately. If he has a procedure, it doubles as a tracking number on a system within the hospital. So, for example, if we are eating in the cafeteria, there is a board much like an airline flight board where we can check his number and the color it is highlighted in tells us if he is still in surgery, in recovery or back in his room.

    We never used it to call for info, but could have.
  9. bek

    bek Guest

    I think the DJ deserves the blame for this. I also think the hospital deserves the blame for it too if they didn't develop a procedure for this type of event... (I.e the future Queen of England)...Poor children in this and poor William and Kate.

    Those radio show people were so selfish. It would have been one thing to call a flower shop and pretend to be the queen... (and pay for the flowers too)....Nobody would I suspect lose their job over that. As long as the flowers and stuff were paid for. But to call someone who could actually lose their job..

    This woman didn't sign up for this kind of media scrutiny. She was a private person.. To be honest I have been concerned about the whole situation with Kate and this baby to begin with. She's barely along and already hospitalized and you have the media going crazy.. Way to much stress. Hopefully now the media will back off and late this girl alone... Its a serious thing (even if it was just morning sickness) not a funny thing when a pregnant woman is in the hospital.

    And as for why this person killed themselves. Some cultures (I don't know much about Indian cultures) are more shame based than others. The whole thing is so sad. I hope something can be done for those poor children. And that the Duchess is okay too.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2012
  10. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I hate commercial radio in Australia for reasons such as this. And the problem is the authorities let them get away with it, along with an number of other things. I worked at a place where one morning the boss and her kids arrived and joked about a Gotcha call they had just heard on the radio. Can't remember what it was but I know I didn't join in their fun and might have expressed my disgust about it.
  11. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    I agreed with everything that you wrote except what I put in bold. My best friend had hyperemesis gravidarum with each of her three pregnancies. We exchanged a few emails about Kate this week, this is what my friend wrote,
  12. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is the law in the US, unless the daughter-in-law has given written permission that Mr. President may have access to that information.
  13. bek

    bek Guest

    I was saying just morning sickness because I didn't want to well overstate things but the situation being more serious than the media was letting on is what I worried about... I even felt like I needed to pray for her for whatever reason.. And (I'm not that into royal family stuff didn't even watch that wedding) it was just a thought that went through my head, and then this happens. But my thoughts were this could be a complicated pregnancy and the media is already surrounding this girl. Hopefully know they will back off....
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2012
  14. Twizzler

    Twizzler Well-Known Member

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    Actually, that's exactly what I'm saying. When patients are admitted, they provide a list of people that can be given updated medical status reports if they call. The people on the list are given passwords to use when they call to inquire. No password, no information. Period.

    Is this followed 100% of the time? Probably not, but the people who chose to give out personal information are putting their jobs at risk.
    *Jen* and (deleted member) like this.
  15. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you mean, but I don't think William and Kate should nor probably do feel at all "guilty" of anything. They were victimized too in a careless and thoughtless way. Certainly, they must be feeling very sad as expressed in their press statement, which is not what they should have to be feeling during what should be a happy and joyful time for them. This just highlights the need for the media and other frenzied followers, as posters have mentioned, to "back-off" and respect William's and Kate's humanity and desire to live with as much privacy and normalcy as they possibly can under the circumstances of their very public lives.

    Very sad situation. Understandably and rightly so, no personal details about the nurse/ receptionist are being given out and her family has asked for privacy, with all inquiries being forwarded to the police. It doesn't really matter what other situations might have existed in this woman's life, or whether it was simply the overwhelming sense of guilt, embarrassment, fear of repercussions, and/ or being made the butt of jokes for the rest of her life that drove her to apparently commit suicide. The fact remains a person has died senselessly and that is a horrible shame.

    It makes me realize how awful a person must feel to make such a decision, without their being able to comprehend in that moment that taking their own life to make the pain go away will not actually solve anything and there will be no way to take it back and redeem or rise above their despair. The DJs should really think very hard about what they can do for the rest of their lives to make a positive difference in raising awareness about suicide, and/ or working with depressed people, and with teenagers to advocate against suicide. They should of course also think about doing something to help the children and family of the deceased woman.
  16. bek

    bek Guest

    The thing is though as I mentioned earlier in some cultures when you lose bringing dishonor to yourself/family. Death can be seen as the only means of saving face. Its possible that this wasn't the case here, but given where this nurse is from-that's what could have happened. Not every society/religion views suicide the same way.

    So I find the whole she's mentally ill etc and those arguing its not the DJ's. I wonder how many of them realize this fact.

    In terms of Kate/William. What the heck do they have to feel bad about this. I feel terrible that this happening to them.
  17. Angelskates

    Angelskates Active Member

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    Is there any proof the nurse killed herself because of the prank? She wasn't involved in the prank in any way, so there's nothing to say she killed herself because of it. I think the prank was terrible, but I don't necessarily automatically believe it's the reason for the nurse's death.
  18. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    I work on the campus of a hospital, not with patients. In my job orientation, by the way they worded it, if I even breathed one word about a patient here to anyone who did not have clearance to know it, I could be fired. I don't even work with patients, and this is how I operate.

    I figured that maybe they were on the safe side, because we're located in Los Angeles. I remember that 13 workers at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center were fired because they looked up information about Britney Spears (back when she had her mental breakdown) on the hospital's computers. They weren't even accused to giving information to tabloids - just that they looked at her records without authorization. Obviously this area takes privacy laws very seriously.

    A number of people made serious mistakes over this transgression. But a woman didn't need to die. And yes, the DJs are the ones to really blame for going through on a mean and unfunny prank.
  19. bek

    bek Guest

    In most companies that deal with sensative information its the same thing. Who knows what the protocol though is in the UK. I have though a very hard time understanding how there wasn't any protocol for the Dutchess?

    In the end even if there was a loss of face thing going on there still more than likely was other issues this could have been the final straw.

    Hopefully though this is the final straw with the media. To be frank, why should that radio even be allowed to use either of those women's voices without their permission... In terms of pranks like that I think they should have to get disclosures....

    The thing is ridiculous soon nobody is going to want to go in the public service if their lives are going to be subjected to that.
  20. victoriajh

    victoriajh Well-Known Member

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    I hate these type of prank calls by stations. I do. Not think they are funny or entertaining at all...I turn the station whenever they do one and don't go back!!! Does anyone actually think its funny?
  21. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    I think it is appalling. I hate when radio personalities do this. They do it every week in my city when they try to catch someone cheating. It's awful.

    I knew a coworker who had the worst of the worst with her partner. Physically abusive, emotionally abusive. The only thing she had was her work. Every day she wanted to kill herself and was just waiting for a signal. I would not be surprised if this worker was similar. You know the hospital went after her, and probably tried to fire her. When work is gone, nothing else is left. It's tragic.

    Not a fan of these pranks. They can really cause harm, as this thread shows. Don't play with someone's emotions, you don't know where they are in their life. This Aussie duo has to know that they caused the death of this woman. Hopefully they aren't still laughing. The tape of them laughing is sickening. I mean, really? How sad.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2012
  22. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining New Member

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    This wasn't an ordinary hospital, it was one used frequently by the royal family. From their website: "The Hospital has a strong tradition of excellence in nursing. Our nursing staff are some of the very best and - unlike many hospitals - the vast majority are permanently employed by us."

    An article here describes Jacintha as being bubbly, hard working, but nervous and needing a confidence boost now and then. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...nd-generous-soul/story-e6frg6n6-1226532841906
  23. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

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    Of course they're not still laughing. They've been taken off air, might lose their jobs, have been silenced by their employers and told not to comment, and are receiving death threats from all over the world.

    They might be responsible for a bad prank that misfired, but they are human.

    The real culprits are the listeners, not just of this station but of every station that does similar pranks. The listeners tolerate it and support it, and have done for years. It's all well and good for people to be outraged now that it has something to do with 'beloved' royals and there has been this horrific, unintended consequence. However, the vast majority of listeners of radio shows like this one should also shoulder some blame. No one wants to admit that they like these pranks in the face of what's happened, but the history of the shows and the ratings tell a different story.

    You can't just blame the DJs, the station, the hospital for their privacy policy etc etc. There is no one person or group of people to blame. What's happened, and the outcry and death threats, is more a sick reflection of society as a whole than any individual.

    People should be less interested in laying blame and slapping wrists and more interested in learning the lesson, IMO.
  24. michaelfsfan

    michaelfsfan Princess Glee (TM)

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    ITA. Why are trashy magazines that base their selling prowess on publishing photos of royals, pop stars etc taken without their permission still in circulation? To satisfy the "cravings" of nosey people who want to see what their "idols" are up to in their free time. It all boils down to one equation: no demand = no supply.
  25. Angelskates

    Angelskates Active Member

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    Has any proof been found that the prank had anything to do with the nurse's suicide? I still don't understand the link...she's not the nurse who gave the confidential information, there was never a question of this nurse getting in trouble. That she killed herself is a tragedy, as is every suicide, but it may not have anything to do with the prank. That doesn't make the prank any less stupid, but I don't think it's the DJs fault. The listeners, heck even Prince Charles, were laughing before the woman committed suicide; that's the DJs job, to get laughs. I don't think it's funny, but some obviously did. Is anyone blaming Prince Charles? It's people who laugh at pranks like this that mean they continue.
  26. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    The prank itself is no worse than hundreds of harmless pranks that are attempted every April Fool's day. I personally don't think the DJs did anything wrong.
  27. Silver Lining

    Silver Lining New Member

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  28. *Jen*

    *Jen* Well-Known Member

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    Here's an interesting opinion piece from an Australian newspaper.

    I agree with most of it, but it's not just 'an English culture', it's an English speaking culture. As Michael pointed out above, the US magazines were drooling just as much over the royal baby story as the English ones, as were the Australian ones. And as a listener of Brisith radio, let me assure you that while no one made a prank call to the hospital that I'm aware of, loads of people were taking the piss, joking about baby names and other royals' reactions. Australian papers were just as :drama: after the call as British ones.

    It does quite succinctly deal with the legal issues though. Bad taste isn't a crime.
  29. bek

    bek Guest

    I disagree. Pranks are harmless only if they cause no permanent harm. If their prank was successful and nurses gave confidential material, those people could lose their jobs. There is nothing harmless about tricking someone to losing their job..
  30. mkats

    mkats New Member

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  31. suep1963

    suep1963 Well-Known Member

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    I think that if you perform an action, then you have to be willing to take responsibility for that action, no matter what the outcome is. Saying it's just a harmless joke or prank is an excuse to deflect blame. If you cannot be mature enough to be willing to accept that "the buck stops here--I did this and it blew up in my face" than I have no sympathy when you get a bunch of criticism. You thought this was funny--now you might lose your job. Too bad--should have thought about that before you made the phone call. You did it, now stop blaming everyone else for your poor judgement. It's not society's fault that you put that call through--no one was sitting there in the station with a gun to your head forcing you do that. Just two idiots who thought they were funnier than everyone else--and really nothing but a pair of stupid idiots with the mentality of a playground bully.

    I think there are many pranks and crap that people try to excuse off because no one wants to say "you are a fcking immature bully" and you know damn well if someone pulled a prank like that on them they'd be screaming bloody murder all over the place. Too much blame passing--no one cares about the person on the end of the "joke" and how it's going to affect them. They don't think about that because they simply don't care. As long as it makes them feel like they scored a hit, then that's all that matters.
    *Jen* and (deleted member) like this.
  32. Cachoo

    Cachoo Well-Known Member

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    I felt the prank was done in poor taste but I also thought the initial reaction to the prank was way over-the-top. When there is so much going on in the world to see an attempted prank call make the national evening news broadcasts in the US was ridiculous imho. And that also goes for the ensuing finger pointing at the hospital for making the mistake of putting the call through. No wonder that poor woman felt badly.
  33. bek

    bek Guest

    Well was the story that this journalist wrote true? However I am not sure how you can compare someone in the media exposing someone cheating customers. Vs what these radio host people did. What they did was NOT journalism. Everyone knew Catherine was in the hospital. Everyone knew she was pregnant. They were trying to get information-that they were not entitled too. Its not even comparable.

    To be honest. I think the nurses in question should be able to sue these radio hosts (especially the other one on the tape). Did the lady agree to be on the radio show? And be humilated like that. There was nothing newsworthy about it and why should the radio show be able to use that lady for profit. That radio show should be sued.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2012
  34. duane

    duane New Member

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    I immediately thought this when I read this story, and suspect that eventually, it will be determined that the prank had little--if anything--to do with the suicide.
  35. mkats

    mkats New Member

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    ^ I don't know if the story she wrote about is true. But the similarity is that in both cases, someone died because they humiliated them. Was the case in the above article much more warranted? Yes, of course. Were the DJs moronic and out of line? Yes, obviously. But they didn't set out to cause Jacintha Saldanha's death, however idiotic their original intentions, and we have no proof that their actions directly caused her death. Should they be fired, disciplined, not allowed back on the air, well I'd be in favor of that. But given that there was no way of foreseeing what ended up happening, I don't feel like we can hold them directly responsible for the fact that someone committed suicide.

    I think that's all the author was getting at - that all the hysteria in either direction, looking for someone to blame, is not good for anybody.
  36. Eden

    Eden Well-Known Member

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    It is very sad when a foolish act triggers a suiside, but I doubt that it was the only reason for the nurse to end her life.
    RIP :(
  37. bek

    bek Guest

    Maybe they couldn't have forseen it. But the fact of the matter is they had no idea who they were pulling a prank on either. She was an anonymous stranger. I suspect that maybe this nurses's friends and family could have foreseen it.

    However what they should have as reasonable people forseen is that showing the ability to get personal information about the Duchess's health might put a lot of stress on the Duchess who is already experiencing a hard pregnancy-that is easily forseeable. And the Duchess's medical condition was not ha! ha! funny joke. Women have died from it. Babies have been lost from it.

    And something easily foreseeabe is someone losing their job and livelhood over that. So yes essentially ruining someone's life. And at the end of the day this wasn't somebody out to commit a crime.. Or someone who signed up as a public figure. But just someone who wanted to save lives as a nurse and was apparently proud to work at the hospital that serves the Queen. Proud to the point of living away from her family on the weekdays...

    When you pull a prank like that on someone you don't know-yes you bare some responsibility from the unforseen consquences. Especially because we live in a very global world now. And some cultures hold the idea of honor and saving face to be of extreme importance. So what may seem like a silly get over it moment for some-isn't the same for others.

    And then you may have others who may just be in a very fragile state just in general and not up for at all to be ridiculed worldwide. These pranksters were essentially messing with people they didn't know, who they had no business even talking too.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2012
  38. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    Has it been determined it was suicide? I read she had been found on the street a few blocks from the hospital. That makes suicide seem less likely than some sort of mugging gone wrong or an accidental death such a heart attack. It seems more likely to me that someone accosted her on the street for her part in this prank and that led to the death in some way.
  39. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    The jockeys weren't out to cause the nurses to lose their jobs, and they didn't go through some elaborate scenario to try and convince the nurses that they were members of the royal family; They simply spoke in a fake English accent. The nurse broke the patient's confidentiality rule. If she had lost her job because of it then it would've been deserved.
  40. floskate

    floskate Vacant

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    Link? Everything I have read and seen on the news here in the UK indicates that her body was found in a nurses accommodation building round the corner from the hospital.