Hoping the Zhangs can still win a World title

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by judgejudy27, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I am starting to worry that Zhang & Zhang may never win Worlds. I would really like to see them win Worlds atleast once before retiring. They are the team with the most regular grand prix title victories of all the current pairs.

    However they havent been close to the Germans in years now. And Volosozhar & Morozov look like an amazing pair. And Kavaguti & Smirnov and Pang & Tong are still hanging around.

    Hopefully the Zhangs will still be able to somehow win a major title. Is it even realistic anymore to ever happen though.
     
  2. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I think it maybe a little to early to count them out (although his injury worries me)

    They have done pretty well for themselve and have NOT been given enough credit.

    Since the 2003-2004 they have medled in every competition except:

    2010 Olympics - 5th
    2004, 2007, 2010 Worlds - 5th
    2003, 2004, 2010 GPF - 6th, 5th, 6th

    39 competitions and only left empyhanded at 7 of them? No too bad in my book. I think most teams would die for that record.

    So they haven't won Worlds...yet, they were 2nd in 2009.

    It could happen but like I said I fear for this missed season and his finger. And if they never win, I would be very proud of their career if I were them.
     
  3. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I still remember back in 2006 I thought they were going to dominate the next quad or more, and I was not even a fan of theirs. I also never imagined Shen & Zhou would try and return since I couldnt imagine them getting back on top of the Zhangs in the future, funny how things turn out when in reality Shen & Zhou were able to return in 2010 and be beating the Zhangs by 40 points or so.

    Up until the 2009 Worlds they were still firmly entrenched as the #2 pair behind the Germans. Since then though more and more teams seem to be passing them by, and the judges interest in them has gone well done. Now an injury on top of that too.

    I think the 2006 Worlds was their best shot. They should have won that year (meaning should have skated well enough to win easily) but they didnt skate their best in the long program for whatever reason. 2008 was their next best chance but by then the Germans had superior scoring potential by quite a bit to any of the current pairs and all the momentum, so they had to skate a perfect long program to have won and didnt quite do it that night.

    Last years Worlds was shocking in a way. They skated two perfect programs, maybe one of their best competitions ever and they were placed 5th by the judges, below pairs they had mistakes. Their PCS plummeted in a big way last season.
     
  4. taf2002

    taf2002 Texas slumlord

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    Why would you want them to win Worlds if you're not a fan? No one deserves a World title for longevity. They have some big tricks but neither is an exceptionally good skater. IMO their PCS should have never been high, and this last season they were receiving what they should have gotten all along. They are consistantly sloppy skaters & their unison is not good. To me this does not translate to World Champions. Their Oly silver was (IMO) a sympathy medal given for Dan Zhang's exceptional toughness in continuing with the program. IMO they should have been 4th.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I wasnt a fan of theirs back then. Remember that was 5 years ago though. I have warmed up to them over the years and now am more of a fan. I do think they have worked hard to improve their artistry and overall packaging and have done a very good job. I did once find they were quite overmarked but last season I found them undermarked quite often.

    Some of their technical elements are amazing, amongs the best in history. Their triple and double twist, their side by side jumps, some of their throws, even some of their lifts.

    I do think given the # of international events they have, how long they were the heir apparents, that they were very close to winning in 2006 and 2008, and yes their longevity, it would be nice to see them win a Worlds. That is my personal perspective. It is not like any of the other current pairs are truly great either anyway, you have to be excellent but not an all time great to win a major title in this era of pairs. That was proven emphatically when an aging Shen & Zhou who had been retired for almost 4 years swept in and blew the current field all away like it was nothing, there is currently no legendary pair amongst the crop. Aliona & Robin of Germany could become a truly great pair if they were more consistent which they are starting to be this season somewhat, and if they start to have some more meaningful programs. And Volosozhar & Morozov could end up being a great pair in the years to come, but too early to tell.

    I agree they did not deserve their Olympic silver in 2006 but when you break down the protocal the TES was actually in line. The PCS is where the debate could come in, along with if they should have been allowed to continue.
     
  6. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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    Hoping the Zhangs end up finally getting the PCS they have deserved for their actual skating skills; which would keep them far away from a major title. They've been overly gifted over the years. High flying tech content does not a complete team, or program, make.
     
  7. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if they will win one. I think they really need to improve their artistry if they are going to. Probably the only way they could win one now is if V/T, S/S and P/T have technical meltdowns, like more than one fall a program in both the SP and LPs.
     
  8. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    S/Z were only away from competitive skating for two seasons, they passed the time by doing shows.
     
  9. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    Not a big fan of Zhangs either; and even if people here claim that Yao Bin gives them special treatment ("pets") I can understand why. IMO out of all the Chinese pairs in the last quad they have the most potential.

    They're still young, obviously athletic, but in order to improve on PCS I think they need to look at packaging, and they are capable of getting more complex programs, too. She also has really long lines doesn't know how to make them beautiful. Plus, she has a very pretty face too :D but it doesn't help that she looks like she's about to nap midway thru each program :lol:
    Shame about them, because at this point they have more potential than their aging teammates...
     
  10. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I've always felt the Zhangs did deserve their silver medal. Their content was amazing. The whole restart issue was not their fault--the powers-that-be decided that.

    Their artistry has improved and I would like to see them win at least one World title.
     
  11. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    I would absolutely love to see the Zhangs win a World title. And I agree with skateboy, I also think they deserved the silver medal in 2006.
     
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  12. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping they never win anything important because they are not the model I want to see future pairs emulating . To me, they always epitomized what is worst in the "heave the broad" pairs mentality. I much prefer Russian style pair skating that requires symmetry and unison and grace, none of which the Zhangs have.
     
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  13. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    What is kind of funny though is it seemed at Worlds they had a better skate and Pang & Tong who seemed to skate fairly clean at the Olympics had a worse skate with a fall and yet Pang & Tong upset them pretty easily to win Worlds. Maybe I need to study the protocals of both events again. I remember being surprised both initialy that the Zhangs were placed over P&T at the Olympics, then being again surprised when Pang & Tong overtook the Zhangs to win Worlds with their skate there.
     
  14. taf2002

    taf2002 Texas slumlord

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    You do know these events happened 4 yrs apart? The Zhang got the silver in 2006, & P/T won Worlds in 2010. Your sentence makes it sound like it happened 2 months apart.
     
  15. jamesy

    jamesy Well-Known Member

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    P/T won worlds in '06 and '10.
     
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  16. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    The Chinese were last decade. This one belongs to the Russians. :)
     
  17. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    I completely agree.
     
  18. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Maybe this long break could give them a chance to work on artistry. I wish Z/Z the best although Sui really stole my heart.
     
  19. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I hope they don't win a world title until their improve their skating to world champion calibre.

    Their past record is a result of their Flatt-like consistency only.
     
  20. loopey

    loopey Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you, and you phrased it a lot better than I would. I was merely going to say that to me the Zhangs represent everything gone wrong in pair skating over the last 5 years. Sloppy, no toe pointing, bad lines, bad posture, skating over the music, and uninspired choreography.
    And I for one am immensely grateful for this.

    At one time I thought the Zhangs had good potential. They were young and consistent with jumps, twists and throws. Huge upside, but to me they never reached their potential and IMO, if they don't leave Yao they never will. If P/T stayed eligible after Vancouver because they could not yet afford a house, then Z/Z will probably be around for two more Olympics. :yawn:
     
  21. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to the 2006 Worlds where P/T upset the Zhangs for the gold medal at Worlds soon after the 2006 Olympics. I was surprised at the result at both events at the exact time (2006 Olympics with Zhangs overtaking P/T as last skaters after their skate, and 2006 Worlds with P/T overtaking Zhangs as last skaters after their skate).
     
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Where do the Germans fit into that or are they just the bridge that comes and goes between dominant teams who always overhaul them around Olympics time. :D
     
  23. loopey

    loopey Well-Known Member

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    The Germans (and the Chinese) have been the "commercials" of figure skating. Breaks until we get back to regular scheduled programming (the Russians). :D
     
  24. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    :lol:

    It would be quite nice to see a truly classical Russian pair take hold of pairs again, and even better if Moskvina choreographed for them :swoon:
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2011
  25. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I have never been enamored of any of the Chinese pairs. Sure the tricks are big, but skating skills and spins are pretty ordinary to say the least. Although they manage to be top teams, it's usually fridge/ciggy break time for me. I like the Germans and the Russian teams, and of course cheer on dutifully the Canadian teams.
     
  26. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    crs, is that you ?
     
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  27. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I was never their fan or even close to it. The only time I thought they had potential was at the 2002 Olympics. They never really developed into a top pair, IMO. It won't break my heart if they never win the world championship. There are many skaters who were good enough to win the world title but did not. I don't feel the Zhangs were ever good enough to win the world title, though in 2006 they may have had their best opportunity (Pang & Tong won).
     
  28. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Any updates on them? Will they even be back this season.
     
  29. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Haven't heard a thing. :(
     
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    ^Weird. Has anyone checked the 4CC entries for clues? I looked the other day and didn't see anything...

    I wonder if we will see a Chen Lu a la '94 Worlds situation where the Chinese Fed needs Z/Z to compete at Worlds in order to secure 3 spots for 2012 and kind of forces them into it even while still injured.