Headcase Renaissance?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by pinky166, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Czisny just won the GPF, Kostner came in 2nd with no flip or lutz, and Verner skated his fourth solid FS of the season there.

    All three skaters made coaching changes after last season.

    Czisny looks poised to medal at nationals and maybe even Worlds, and Carolina and Tomas appear to be the frontrunners for gold going into Europeans.

    Is this all a coincidence that this is happening at the same time, or can it be explained. Also, will it last?

    Discuss.
  2. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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    Didn't you get the memo?

    Hell froze over. :)
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  3. dundas

    dundas Banned Member

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    Koster only attempted 3s, 3t and 3lo. It's really embarrassing to see European ladies except Russians Jr. winning world/European medals with this sort of jump content.
  4. Indra486

    Indra486 Well-Known Member

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    Kostner has some sort of "excuse", given that her knee isn't holding up, though it does baffle me why she is holding off medical treatment when she needs surgery. These types of injuries don't get better on their own.
  5. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Still. She had trouble landing even those jumps last season.
  6. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Let's see another competition through first. For Czisny at least, that happens to be....US Nationals.
  7. dundas

    dundas Banned Member

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    One Kostner winning medals with those jumps was always too much in the past. We got another double-jump queen Lepisto winning a world bronze medal last year. How dreadful!! Thanks God, she's not competing this season.

    Think about it. All top 6 ladies at JGPF had 7-triple programs, on the other hand, the World/European Sr. medalists can not land do a 3lutz or 3flip!!! :lol::lol:
  8. mia joy

    mia joy New Member

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    Kostner can land flips and lutzes, she's just injured. She's been struggling with her jumps for quite a while, but that doesn't mean she doesn't know how to land a flip :rolleyes:

    besides, I've seen many girls (Kostner included) who were incredible jumpers when still teenagers or juniors but then they grew up and the jumps went away, so who knows what happens to those JGPF ladies in a couple of years?
  9. eleonorad

    eleonorad New Member

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    I suppose I was dreaming when Kostner won 2 GPF bronze medals, 3 european titles, 1 bronze and 1 silver world medal with flip and lutz. Reading this forum looks like it actually never happened. She's a lepisto now.

    As for the question, I don't think Kostner is a good example of coaching change. Frank Carroll tried to change her whole technique, which was the only thing that was working, yes she improved her spins a lot, but she lost all her best jumps and combinations. Not to mention the relationship coach/skater.
    So she came back where she belongs, Oberstdorf. I actually would have liked her to try some other coach rather than Huth but I think this time it's more about feeling comfortable, close to home and more relaxed than just about the coach.

    Alissa is a much better example of coaching change. I think there is no "perfect" coach, but the right coach for each, different skater and this may change during a lifetime just like one changes as a person and sporstman. Maybe this is exactly what Alissa was looking for, same goes for Tomas and it's not just about the results..it's about feeling new motivation, after year and years of skating, a refreshing approach, new enthusiasm..this is what I see in both of them!
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  10. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

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    I think headcases like Czisny and Kostner can sneak onto a podium when competing against a depleted field in the first post-Olympic season, but to expect them to do as well at future Worlds or Olympics after this season when younger talents start to emerge and others return or become stronger is asking too much. When you have been consistently inconsistent for as long as Czisny and Kostner have, the likelihood that they'll suddenly pull it all together and not crumple at the biggest events becomes slimmer and slimmer.

    In a strange way, this makes wins like Czisny's at the GPF all the more sweeter for us fans because we know it is very likely that she will never have such a victory again.
  11. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Excuse or not, Carolina and Laura have the best skating in Europe. I don't see any problem with one of them winning without the big tricks. ;)

    And back to the topic, I don't see it as a renaissance. Just that Carolina, Alissa and Tomas are now old enough to bear the pressure, maybe.
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    And maybe mature enough to accept that their old coaching situations weren't working and bite the bullet and make a coaching change ;)
  13. eleonorad

    eleonorad New Member

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    LOL :lol: very appropriate expression!
  14. ninadel

    ninadel New Member

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    I think that the olympics create a logical retirement point for most skaters, which probably makes them more reflective and gives the ones who stay a sense of renewed commitment.

    A common theme for these three seems to be a desire to rekindle a genuine love for skating, which means less freaking out about competition results and the burden of their natural talent. Let's hope the clean streak continues!
  15. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    She will. Just to irritate you.:barrel
  16. geod2

    geod2 New Member

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    Past performance is not a guarantee of future results...

    ;)


    .
  17. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Yup. That.
  18. sus2850

    sus2850 Member

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    "To those out there who doubt and judge, call us facile or weak, and call any of us head cases... #ACFTW! put that in your back pocket!"

    That is a quote from Jeremy's twitter...
  19. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    What does "#ACFTW" mean?
  20. museksk8r

    museksk8r Well-Known Member

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    Alissa Czisny for the win! ;)
  21. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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  22. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Alissa Czisny For the Win! I saw when Jeremy posted that, as his tweets also get posted to his Facebook. He also said haters can exit on the left, lol :)
  23. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea if it will last, but Joubert just has to get it together and all will be perfect! (well.. no.. but.. better)
  24. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    So is it too late for Eman to make a comeback? ;)
  25. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    He could do an Andreev and take up ice dance. What's Pasha up to these days?
  26. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Does Joubert really qualify as a headcase though? I feel like he messes up a lot, but yet somehow he always manages to end up on the European and World podium. I guess he's generally a later season skater and his bombs tend to come during the GP (or the Olympics). I'm not ready to give up on him yet though :). I'd love to see him and Verner both on the podium at Euros this season.
  27. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    I was lobbying for that when he was on SYTYCD Canada!
    But I think he would really have to work on his speed!
    Shae Lynn and Eman!
  28. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Czisny was a headcase. I think she was a techniquecase.

    As for Frank trying to change Kostner's technique, her flip technique was to do the flip as if it was an isolated jump in practice, skate forward 2/3 the length of the rink for speed while completely upright with no arm movements then jump. It deserved a net neg 0.25 GOEs and/or 0.25 off in CH every time she did it. Any coach would try to add arm movements before it.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  29. RobinA

    RobinA New Member

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    Agree. I'm a Czisny fan, but I'm still seeing the same issues that have always plagued her. She is doing better this year, but I'm not ready to bet the ranch on a Nationals...anything. She's had success before and then fallen off dismally. Kostner I've never gotten and have always thought she was substantially overmarked.

    Although....I'm never impressed with "younger talents." I've been a figure skating fan forever and there's ALWAYS some little girl on the verge of taking the world by storm. It rarely happens. Both Czisny and Kostner have seen them come and go and they both still manage to wrack up a win here and there while the "young talent" is splatting their way to not even being in the Final.
  30. RobinA

    RobinA New Member

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    I vote for headcase. I am not a Joubert fan, to me he's always seemed like Yags without the soul. I saw him live once in an exhibition, and he was a beautiful, non-Yags skater. When not under pressure? Gorgeous. I wish that guy would show up on competition ice.
  31. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. Successful GP, generates hope and hype, seems unstoppable, then Nationals comes, CLUNK! (stop me if you've seen this before)

    For a while I thought I was alone here. I ALWAYS think she is overmarked. As someone else termed it, she's basically the "female Patrick Chan".

    And I agree here. I've been following for less than ten years and ALREADY I have realized that it's really rare for the young ones to live up to all the hype.
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  32. Maximillian

    Maximillian Well-Known Member

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    I think with her lack of jumping content it's getting more and more ridiculous. I am primarily bothered by the claim that her skating skills are so great, but she never looks secure in anything she's doing, so I really don't buy that argument. I don't think she has horrible skills, but she does not ever appear to be completely balanced and often her held edges are wobbly. Me thinks this is a solid case of the Emperess' New Clothes.
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  33. kia_4EverOnIce

    kia_4EverOnIce New Member

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    yeah, it's like watching a thriller sometimes! :lol:

    anyway, she has great skating skills, nowadays better than her jumps IMO, but she used to have also great jumps!
    look at this combination, back in 2004: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y98pNQBU02I
    She had all the triples, and it's just in the last two seasons (and at 2005 euros and 2006 olympics) that she has struggled with them. This year she hasn't lutz and flip, but it's due to the injury.

    I think that from 2008/2009 onward she and her staff approached in the worst manner the Olympics, adding only extra stress, pressure and criticism on her. So, returning to Oberstdorf and flying under the radar has helped her a lot IMO, and this year she's skating with new motivations and passion.
    And her jumping content is low, but it's also quite sufficient in Europe whether one likes or no the fact.

    As for Alissa, I'm just happy to see her skating again like that and I truly hope that she'll be at Worlds! I think for her is a little part of tecnique, and a lot of new motivations and trainings methods, so her coaching change it seems a very good thing.
    For Tomas also, his coach changing seems to have worked out very well: I hope that he can be back on the Euro podium again!
  34. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I think Joubert's World medal streak will end this year. His primary calling card was realy his quad. Well more skaters are trying AND landing them this year than previously, and some of those skaters are much better skater than Brian. Brian's charismatic and very likable, but he stayed eligible too long. The fat lady will sing in Tokyo for him. In fact, she's warming up her throat now.
  35. Doubletoe

    Doubletoe Well-Known Member

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    I agree with mrinalini that this is a post-Olympic season phenomenon. It's a combination of less pressure on Alissa & Carolina plus less competition from the other ladies:
    (1) No Olympic season pressure on Alissa or Carolina
    (2) No pressure for Carolina to do her two most difficult jumps
    (3) Yu-Na out of the GP this season
    (4) Mao is under construction
    (5) Joannie isn't competing
    (6) Miki is a little burned out, injured, and changed her SP just before GPF
    (7) Rachael and Mirai have been getting <, << and -GOE on their 3F's and 3Lz's due to right foot injuries
    (8) Akiko and Kanako don't get the high PCS of Alissa or Carolina, so they would have to skate clean. . . which they didn't.
  36. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    So how do you explain Tomas's resurgence then? Is Michal being out with an injury making that big a difference on his confidence?
  37. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, you know if he bombs the SP, he can always withdraw due to stomach flu ;) rather than end the streak.
  38. mrinalini

    mrinalini Active Member

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    Normally, I'd agree, but I think this Olympic cycle is a little bit different. Russia has such a pool of insanely talented youngsters that I don't think all of them will slip through the cracks. Plus, the next Olympics is in Sochi which is why I'm expecting to see plenty of beneficial scoring for the Russians in seasons to come even when they don't regularly execute 7-triple free skates.

    Japan, the U.S. and even China are also not without promising young skaters who may eventually become forces to contend with come Sochi.
  39. JasperBoy

    JasperBoy Well-Known Member

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    How about Emanuel and Hayley Wickenheiser on BOTB 2011?

    ETA Sorry this is OT. It just came to me and I had to send it.
  40. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates New Member

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    On Europeans, if you can get enough points with fewer or less difficult jumps, that's just the way it is in a competition. Hopefully, Kostner will get that surgery and get her jumps back and for now she has developed very nice artistry. I enjoyed watching her GPF programs. Can't say that I enjoyed watching her fly around and jump mostly sloppy in the past. I think the injury has helped her think about all the other elements besides jumps and now she is a more artistic, expressive, and complete skater.
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