Has Zhulin Totally Lost His Mind?????

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Tak, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    Or is he deliberately sabotaging B/S??? :mad::mad::mad:

    First, he changed both their programs 2 weeks before their first GP. He scrapped their SD entirely - I still dont know why. I saw it on YouTube. I didnt think it was great, but it did look different from a lot of them and I think it would have stood out if he had kept it. Then he changed the music for the FD, while trying to keep the choreography intact. If this isnt idiocy, I dont know what is. The skaters they were competing against had 2-3 months to prepare their programs. His team had 2 weeks.

    Then, when the FD is finally starting to come together for them - he pulls them out of Euros [mistake], totally scraps the program [I think an even bigger mistake], and decides to go back to last year's FD [the biggest mistake of all]. :wall::wall: Ice dancers can't re-use old programs like singles can. Every team who's tried it in the past has been dinged by the judges. And Zhulin well knows this :angryfire:angryfire

    What on earth is he trying to do to them? If I were M/K I'd be very afraid.
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  2. lmarie086

    lmarie086 Well-Known Member

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    Wait, he's making them go back to last year's FD? He wants them to get the kiss of death from the judges? What is he smoking?

    They can kiss that Oly bronze goodbye...

    He sure is giving a lot up to I/K; I know they're inconsistent but if they can deliver, the path has opened right up for them. Are we sure he dislikes them?
  3. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    I know, right? I just can't for the life of me understand what he's thinking???? [or maybe drinking????]

    BTW, the information they are going back to old FD comes from Russia thread in GSD.
  4. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting stuff! Is it possible B/S themselves requested some of these changes? Don't they have some control if they don't agree with Zhulin's decisions?
  5. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Dmitri was simply too embarrassed to do this dance at the Olympics. I mean at the GPF they showed a replay of his ending "caw" the crowd just laughed. You know something isn't working there considering that this dance was supposed to be taken seriously.
  6. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Zhulin has regret not scrapping U&Z's 94 FD before the Olympics (although, I personally loved it). Maybe he's projecting? Heh.

    Zhulin had P&B switch FDs for 10 Worlds, and that was met with some success.
  7. MissJD

    MissJD Active Member

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    I can answer your first question, but after that you're on your own ;) Zhulin said in an interview that Tarasova and the Russian powers that be hated the original programs. That they were all wrong and not Olympic worthy. But he really believed in the birds fd concept, so they changed the music to something better known and classical but kept the concept (splitting the baby if you will, and we know well that works).

    As for what's going on now? Who knows! The program and music has changed for each of their outings, but it's never really worked (no surprise there). If he was so committed to the concept, he should've worked on the original. Last year's fd? Really? Well I guess now we'll see how much political power Russia really has if they get a bronze with that. Or maybe the fed has dumped them and moved on to I/K now that they're getting it together...

    I don't think he hates them. Haha I think he has a team with limitations and he's trying to figure out how to work around those limits and has failed miserably this season. He knows by now everyone hates that bird dance and there's no time for a new program, hence the move back to last year's. Verdict = complete disaster. :( Poor B/S!
  8. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I know it's a really bad idea to repeat last year's dance, but they should still get the tech marks as per rule, right? They could lose some PCS but will they lose enough to really drop in the standings? In any case I didn't think they would win the bronze with the dance they had for GP, so what difference does it really make?
  9. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    That's true. I think COP has really changed things in that regard.
  10. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Had he been wise enough to scrap his 94 FD he would be an Olympic Gold medalist as a skater, not just a coach today. Although in this case I am not as sure it is as obviously as wise a move as the one he didnt make in 94.
  11. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    If that is true, then I'm pissed beyond belief at Tarasova. I guess I shouldn't be surprised then that they are going back to last year's FD, since Tat had a hand in creating it. I guess the "It came to me one night" explanation that Zhulin originally offered might have been him being too embarrassed to admit he got pushed into changing it.

    Ugh, I *loved* the original version of this FD. Not just the music, but the choreography too. Even though the majority of the FD is the same, there are some choreographic details from the original version that I loved that got scrapped as well. All the original version needed was some polishing and maybe change the final lift to something that created a bit more impact/impression. Now B&S are going into the Olympics skating a FD they haven't skated in a year.

    And what about the footwork sequences? Are they going to start training the old ones again, or just stick the ones they were doing for this year's FD into the last year's music?
  12. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Is that really such a terrible choice, going back to last year's FD? This year's second one (I've never seen the first) was super weird, and they did win a world bronze with last year's FD..
  13. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    In all honesty, if they actually skate it well and get the levels, I see no reason they couldn't still get bronze.

    After the freak trip Soloviev had at the GPF last year, the skated the FD conservatively at Euros and Worlds. If they are going to skate it again, I hope they don't hold back and skate it like I've seen them do in practice vids.

    If they do, and again get the levels, they very well could win bronze.

    I just hate that they are in this position.
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Are we seeing more program switches by skaters this year than usual? Carolina switched both her programs. Gracie has gone through 3 SPs so far I think. In the past IIRC you may see one skater changing the planned program to something else.
  15. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    They have to thinking of no matter how well they perform their bird dance it's just a huge huge joke and can't possibly share an Olympic podium with VMDW after d/s Vancouver embarrassment.
  16. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    "His"? You do realize he had a partner, so I doubt that anything about that program was his decision alone. And IIRC he certainly wasn't the dominant member of that pair.
  17. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I personally can't take my eyes off of him when I watch U/Z videos, but then I sort think he was hot back then (when dancing on the ice). Or maybe it was the tights he used to wear (before they banned them after 1992).
  18. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    You dont remember correctly in this case if that is what you believe.
  19. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    In some ways, yes I agree about the tech mark. But I think they did have a shot at the bronze medal. If he hadnt fallen [her fault], Im not sure they wouldnt have got bronze at GPF. Live, their dance looked better than it did on TV. P/B might have won the FD, but B/S had a lead going in. It's moot now, but Im not certain what would have happened with a clean performance. I think that's why she was so upset.

    And far more is at stake for them than the Olympic medal [important as that is]. None of the Russian teams are retiring AFAIK. They are hoping to establish themselves clearly as Russia's No 1 team starting the next quad. Certainly an Olympic bronze would have helped do that. But finishing clearly better than I/K would also put them in a good position. Now I think bronze is gone, and chances are good the judges will put I/K securely ahead of them at Olympics and Worlds. And I blame Zhulin for this entire mess. Again - what was he thinking?
  20. Meteorlight

    Meteorlight Active Member

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    Wait that dance was supposed to be taken seriously? I actually enjoy it a lot mostly because I legit laugh out loud at the opening and the end, every time ... and sometimes the gunshot part in the middle, if I'm not totally zoned out and catch it (but I ALWAYS make sure I'm alert for the opening and end ;) #bestparts).

    On a more serious note, I really feel bad for them if this is true - so soon before the Olympics, and this makes them look really unsure of themselves. In general, I don't like the idea of reusing past programs (for any discipline, but esp. ice dance), unless the program gets changed and fluffed up quite a bit or wasn't used very much initially. However, I will say though that I thought Pechalat/Bourzat's circus program that they brought back for Worlds one year (was it 2009 or the post-Oly worlds?) served them decently well - I distinctly remember one of the commentators saying it was smart for them to bring it back (or something to that effect). I really enjoyed that performance too. So ... I guess there are exceptions?
  21. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Because you say so? Uh, no.
  22. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    To answer the original question-yes Zhulin has lost his mind.
    But I think that happened a long time ago !.
  23. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Well, B/S's Birds FD was truly for the birds...so maybe Zhulin knows what he's doing.
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    No, because it is reality and most who watched them over the years are well aware of it. Reality is something you are rarely in tune with so I am not surprised at your confusion. :lol:
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  25. elif

    elif Active Member

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    Zhulin made a mistake for changing the music. First program was better. But I prefer the old FD to this one. This is not bad thing for me.:)
  26. BlueRidge

    BlueRidge AYS's snark-sponge

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    I was really unhappy when they went to Zhulin in the first place. But I'm also unhappy that I was right to be so unhappy.

    Its probably good to go to the old FD, the birdshit just didn't work. I don't think they will be penalized for going back and they believe a lot more in the old FD so it should work pretty well for them.
  27. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:
  28. vivika1982

    vivika1982 Well-Known Member

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    That is some title for a thread :) but i don't think he lost his mind just being creative and doesn't follow the rules and pisses of the wrong people.

    Really, because besides the transgender sailor dance i don't remember anything about them before they went to Zhulin but the last year FD was somehow nice so better this than having TAT yapping,cawing and nagging about the birdies.I don't mind seeing it as EX program with te original music:)
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I think JJ used 'his' because we are talking about Zhulin right now. Everyone knows about U&Z creating some beautiful programs with their classical lines.

    I disagree that he wasn't the dominant member of that team. Unlike some other ice dance couples, U&Z were very equal in their talent and expression. Zhulin wasn't just showcasing his partner. He was passionate, and very involved in the performance. They really were 50-50 like other great ice dance teams. It's a shame that for the 94 Oly FD they picked a style that did not bring out their strengths. Had they selected something similar to what they had in 89-93, they would have won the OGM- but I am digressing. May be he learned from the experience and decided to can the FD that was not working, but I wish he had done it earlier, and not so close to the Olympics.
  30. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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    Perhap's Zhulin could have made a FD out of their Exhibition number Jay Kay Cosmic Girl :p I quite like that number !
  31. operagirl

    operagirl Active Member

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    Ashley is also going back to last year's program. I don't know if that includes Phillip Mills, though.
  32. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Is that Samson & Delilah? IIRC Black Swan was one year earlier, right? I liked both of them. I liked Romeo & Juliet also but I can see why she would want to use a program she was successful with.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  33. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Their last season's FD had part of the music changed at Tarasova's orders. Which means the diagonal step sequence is completely off-time to the music. The music is racing, very high tempo and their steps are way way slower (nobody could perform high level steps at that speed which is why you wouldn't pick this piece of music for that point in the program normally). It's just :rolleyes:.
  34. Fialka88

    Fialka88 New Member

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    Wait, this change just happened?
  35. Tinza

    Tinza New Member

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    I remeber to read an interview here. Shulin told there that it was his own idea to change the music last year. He already made the decision, when Tarasova told him the same about the music, he saw it as a confirmation. So just a confirmation, no order, he ist able to make his own bad decisions.
  36. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clarifying that, I didn't realise this is how it went down.

    By all means, change the music if you want to, but you should then change the choreo so it matches the new music.
  37. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    While in theory they should score well if they do the elements well in their old FD, I still don't see the point. They have been getting good PCS this year (at least, I keep reading that everyone thinks they were gifted), so it doesn't seem that the judges dislike the material. They just aren't hitting the tech. So the rationale would be that they're more comfortable with last year's choreography which would allow them to perform the elements better... but I don't remember the elements being all that great last year either. Who can forget their almost last place at GPF, losing to I&K in the FD at Euros and to C&L in the FD at Worlds? It's not like they were bringing the house down with that FD.

    Honestly I attribute most of their success last year being due to P&B being out of Euros and injured at Worlds.

    If they had to bring back an FD, their Faust might have been a better pick. "The Man with the Harmonica" is not exactly "Olympic" music anymore than their original birds music.
  38. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I do think they look a lot better in last year's costumes though. Although they will probably change their costumes.
  39. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Lol well if his change was going to benefit I/k in any way that was just ended! I/k couldn't even win euros so b/s is still number one and more solidly than ever as b/s is the only hope and only option.
  40. sequins

    sequins New Member

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    I don't know if he has lost his mind but I don't really think there is any other choice at this point. The bird dance just wasn't going to cut it. It probably would be laughed out of the building. Maybe not to the level of D/S OD in Vancouver but it wasn't going to be a pleasant experience for them I'm sure. So what can you do at this point? I'm sure he didn't mean to purposefully hurt or stress them or put them in this sitution in the first place but what's done is done. Will he still be their coach next season? I would say not likely.

    On the bright side 95% of people watching the Olympics have never seen or don't remember this FD anyways.