Gymnastics News No.12 Part Deux!

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Loves_Shizuka, Aug 9, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    13,170
    What's up with Sarah Finnegan?
  2. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,740
    Well yeah, but there is a difference between what I would want to watch and what I think is more than deserving of winning major titles. I would rather watch Silivas all day but I also appreciate the difficulty enough to not throw a fit when a Raisman wins Olympic Gold with such difficult tumbling. I am not saying anyone here did that but I've seen it plenty of times other places, and yeah, probably here during the Olympic thread.
  3. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    The sport is also called "Artistic Gymnastics" and it's the Floor Exercise, not Tumble Runs.

    I think there needs to be a better balance. I don't mind Raisman becoming FX champion because her competitions either melted under the pressure or just made too many errors. However, a routine like Raisman's should be beatable because of the travesty of the dance, non-tumbling elements, and form issues on her twisting (not that other gymnasts were that much better in the twisting department...ahem...Ponor...Mustafina...).
  4. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    11,834
    It was a pretty filthy lineup in regards to form.

    Only Wieber and to a much lesser extent Afanasyeva had good form going on.
  5. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,696
    hahahaha but that is what made it so glorious. Three gymnasts whose form has been criticised win the three medals on floor. It was glorious. The big difference on floor now is clean landings are so so important. All three Raisman, Ponor and Mustafina were clean on their landings. The introduction of one lunge being allowed may change things slightly this quad. Still with the US women seemingly capable of numerous difficult tumbles. Floor will continue to be who can match that difficulty and be clean at the same time.

    Hmm can anyone explain some of the changes I've been hearing for the COP. Some weird change with the Switch Ring (angle of the legs) and something about connections on beam whereby most connections we've seen in the past COP wouldn't be counted.
  6. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,524
    I don't know a whole lot about the beam connection changes... I know that FX is going to have "H" difficulty for certain skills (double-doubles, etc) and will be giving more connection bonus to try to get that event's average score more in-line with the others. I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more 1.5 twists to double arabians or full-ins. Also, they are only allowing one lunge out of a tumbling pass per routine, and any leaps out of a tumbling pass must have "B" difficulty or higher.

    Biggest change of the code appears to be on the vault and how it will be scored in event finals. Instead of simply averaging the two vaults to get the total, there is a complicated little formula to make determine the score. Difficulties of the two vaults are averaged. Then 10 points are added, and all deductions are subtracted to get the final total. Had this been in place in London, the vault event finals would have looked like this:
    1. Sandra Izbasa (6.1 + 5.8)/2 + 10 - (0.717 + 0.8) = 14.433
    2. Maria Paseka (6.5 + 5.6)/2 + 10 - (1.1 + 0.9) = 14.050
    3. Janine Berger (6.3 + 6.0)/2 + 10 - (1.167 + 1.1) = 13.883
    4. McKayla Maroney (6.5 + 6.1)/2 + 10 - (0.634 + 1.8) = 13.866

    Additionally, many vaults have been devalued (thank god).
    Amanar, from a 6.5 to a 6.3
    Cheng, from a 6.5 to a 6.4
    Rudi, from a 6.3 to a 6.2
    Mustafina, from a 6.1 to a 6.0
    Produnova, from a 7.1 to a 7.0
  7. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,085
    Thanks for the breakdown Fridge Break. :) Interesting that for all the hoopla surrounding the Amanar being devalued, all other comparable vaults to the Amanar in difficulty are being devalued a tenth as well.

    I read somewhere on another board that with these new vault final rules, Alicia Sacramone would've been Olympic Champion on vault in Beijing. (I would've loved that.)
  8. gracefulswan

    gracefulswan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Messages:
    1,280
    News just come out that Komova will definitely miss Russian Nationals and Europeans. She has no serious back injuries, but hasn't yet recovered from the rigors of the Olympic season. She has delayed puberty and will rest up in Voronezh until the end of February. She will attempt to prepare for worlds later in the year.

    Bad timing as Russian Nationals is just around the corner and this would have to qualify her to go to Europeans. Bummer.
  9. OnyxRose81

    OnyxRose81 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    545
    Last I heard, she had an injury. I don't know what. I think she just had minor surgery as well.
  10. mustafinabars

    mustafinabars Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    95
    The scores indicate Raisman was not beatable in the floor final even if everyone else had hit.
  11. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    Right because of her high Difficulty Score.

    I said a routine like hers should be beatable, not that it was.
  12. moojja

    moojja Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    265
    The sport is also called "Figure Skating" and it has nothing to do with figures anymore. I'm also someone who prefer to watch the more graceful gymnasts, but when it comes to competition, I don't care about the non-tumbling aspects. If the forms are off, then it should get a deduction, but harder tumbling pass should have a higher value. In fact, I think the women's floor exercise should be like the men's, get rid of the music. Power and strength is just as important as grace. Why does the women always have to be ballerinas? Rhythmic gymnastic can continue on the artistic direction.
  13. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    Power and strength and grace and dance ability were the fundamentals of floor exercise. The Soviets proved you could have both. The problem is that they're just not stressed enough in the current system.

    Also, if you claim that power and strength are just as important as grace, then why are you basically arguing to get rid of grace and basically turning the floor exercise into a tumbling mat?

    As for Men, even though there was no music, there was still an emphasis on form, movement, and non-tumbling elements during the "golden age". In fact I heard it was suggested that men should have music for their FX, but some reason the differences still exist.

    To be honest, if gymnastics continues is this abysmal direction, then women might as well not have music.
  14. Lanna

    Lanna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    8,655
    I agree. I also think they shoudl get rid of the beam.
  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
  16. Choupette

    Choupette New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,802
    I wouldn't get rid of the beam, if only because it makes competitions much more interesting! However many times the choreography seems unnecessary to me. I liked Mo Huilan's for example, because I felt she was mostly presenting her acrobatic/gymnastics moves and not overdoing it. I think every move should have a purpose and if it doesn't, get rid of it.
  17. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,085
    Yeah they should get rid of the beam, make them jump and cartwheel over 4 inch wide hurdles like horses instead. Maybe then we can finally give Aly Raisman extra points for artistry.

    :lynch:
  18. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    4,995
    A very good interview with Nikolai Kuksenkov (Mykola Kuksenkov) by his sister. The interview includes the disappointed of losing the olympic medal at the Olympics.
  19. Buzz

    Buzz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Messages:
    16,752
    Thanks for the link. Sounds like a nice young man.
  20. augustus

    augustus New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Indeed, although it is dispiriting to see a unique idiomatic and beautiful gymnastics program pretty much collapse. R.I.P Ukrainian gymnastics I hope you're revived sooner than later.
  21. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2001
    Messages:
    13,399
    Wrong thread sorry!
  22. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,085
    McKayla Skinner has competed the first layout double-double ever in womens gymnastics this past weekend:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XDNvkCQTIik#!

    A bit piked I'm sure you could nit pick the skill to death, but its an unreal skill :wideeyes: The landing was nice too, I wouldn't be surprised if she could do punch front out of it. :respec: I love that she then does a tucked double-double as her 2nd pass. :lol: Nice to see boundaries starting to be broken across all 4 events, might be seeing lots of "dream" moves and combinations this upcoming quad! :cheer2:
  23. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2003
    Messages:
    9,940
    It's awesome. She does a layout double-double followed by a tucked double-double, then planned a double arabian for her third pass. Glad she opted to end with a 2 1/2 twist as opposed to the boring double pike.
  24. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,085
    I like the actual routine too and how the tempo builds. choreography is just okay, but as far as floor routines go these days this one is smartly put together so the excitement of the tumbling actually adds to the presentation because of the music tempo. She had an Amanar last year (decent), and was training a Cheng at some point. Could be a force for the VT/FX specialist spot. I could see that routine above winning a World FX title this year if hit, not that it would necessarily be my favorite floor routine (but I think her dance/presentation is a bit more natural than Aly).
  25. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,085
    Ok so much for training it, she threw her Cheng vault in the same meet :lol:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=43KpvZsoOzw

    Hmmm. Well looks like she's got a solid case for herself. Not a fan of the twisting right off the horse technique, takes away from the aesthetics but surprisingly the block is still nice and I really like how she could very easily add more twisting to the vault. I wouldn't be surprised if she's doing more twisting in training already looking at the room to spare she has. Two McKayla's for the same position. ;) (still prefer Maroney but I rather like this one, gymnastically speaking)
  26. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Messages:
    20,740
    Wow, her laidout double double was VERY well done. It was quite laid out and landed upright. Her Cheng vault was easy looking. That's what I took from both skills, how easy she made them look.
  27. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    4,995
    Skinner looks really good on vault and cheng is really good as well. She would have won the vault title with a cheng and an improved Amanar (not the scary once she was doing last year). I think she can give Maroney a run for the money on vault this year.

    As for the floor apart from the tumble, she artistry even make Raisman look good. I sincerely hope FIG clamp down on such monstrosity.
  28. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,085
    Here is Katelyn Ohashi's BB from the WOGA Classic:

    http://www.gymnastike.org/coverage/...A-Katelyn-Ohashi-1580-BB-at-2013-WOGA-Classic

    I love the new arabian-split jump combo - it was like a throwback to the 97 era with all those stupid punch front-wolf jump combos, but this was actually really difficult and pretty. this routine isn't even the hardest one she can do. :kickass: I venture to say she has the hardest beam routine that has ever been done. Such a risky routine, but I would love to see her win the title at Worlds this year. It's crazy to think that she's finally eligible, I've considered her the best on this event for a few years now.
  29. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,696
    Whilst difficult the routine was completely overscored and that many balance checks surely can't win a world title. Nor do I find her particularly pretty on beam either in the same way Nastia never felt pretty either.
  30. millyskate

    millyskate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,019
    This youtube channel has loads of great vids from the recent AYOF: http://www.youtube.com/user/liebetomth

    The future looks very bright for GB and the NZ girls were looking very much improved!
  31. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,396
    I really don't know how she got 15.8 for that routine. Her max D score if everything was credited is 6.6 - which is remarkable considering she didn't even attempt a dance series. I don't think her Arabian to sissone or aerial walkover to sheep would have been credited and her switch 1/2 is quite poor and does not show a proper cross split position and I would credit a switch side instead. I can't imagine this getting a 9.2 E score. I'd almost rather believe the D panel missed that she didn't have a dance series in there.

    I'd love to be proven wrong but I think Ohashi peaked in 2011.
  32. Scintillation

    Scintillation New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,727
    Me too. Her Cheng looked positively airy. And no I'm not a fan of her dance skillz at all but I'll be excited to watch her tumbling this summer.
  33. floskate

    floskate Vacant

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    8,779
    Ohashi has to be one of the most miserable gymnasts I've ever seen perform. She is just soooo low energy as soon as she's done with a routine, whether hit or miss. Shoulders slumped, sloping off looking as if she wants to cry all the time. I mean she makes Gina Gogean look like a perky gymnast with charisma, she's that dull. :O Such a shame. She has the skills but it all looks a bit messy and she's not selling anything.
  34. Scintillation

    Scintillation New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,727
    Rebecca Bross had that same look for the past couple of years. When she started it was the Terminator face, but then it just descended in to the Defeat and Exhaustion face.
    Coco and (deleted member) like this.
  35. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    11,834
    I think Ohashi needs to leave WOGA or she'll likely have a similar trajectory as Bross did...
  36. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,396
  37. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,085
    Wow that's an interesting turn of events. Bummed for Kyla. :( I'm expecting Ohashi to shine on BB but really wouldn't be shocked to see Simone Biles win this.
  38. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,696
    Hmm I do not understand. Injured but going to do a beam exhibition o.o How does that make sense? I guess all eyes will be on Ohashi as we've seen her do beam and UB but not yet floor and surely she won't be doing just a 1.5 Yurchenko vault.
  39. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,396
    I would pick Teramoto to win,but we'll see how everyone does and how much Biles has improved her bars.
  40. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,524
    Quick Hits from the American Cup podium training. As much as I can't stand :blah: Blythe's commentary, it's better than nothing.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.