Gymnastics News #21 - Tumbling on to Tokyo

[VGThuy]

So I was thinking, after all the discussion and celebration of Sanne Wever's creative approach to the balance beam, including her mount. What can the FIG do to encourage gymnasts to go above and beyond in terms of risks and creativity like they used to do? I'd love for the FIG to somehow discover a way to encourage these sorts of mounts on beam again and take that approach to other elements on all apparatuses:

Six Minute Montage of Beam Heaven

Maybe there isn't anything the FIG to do, but rather, whoever is leading the charge has to take it upon themselves to go beyond the code and encourage others to follow suit in order to beat them in their own game a la the Soviets. It seems when the Romanians started dominating in the 90s under Belu and Bitang and then now with the U.S. dominating under the Karyoli way, and with the code changes during that period and then the open-ended scoring system, they as a whole were not willing to take that mantle...though the Dutch are at least pushing the sport in a different direction approaching beam and floor in a wholly different way than any other federation.

 

[kwanfan1818]

References to Gabby Douglas in an article about double standards for athletes:
http://www.salon.com/2016/08/19/the...etes-are-a-protected-class/?source=newsletter

 

[Gazpacho]

So I was thinking, after all the discussion and celebration of Sanne Wever's creative approach to the balance beam, including her mount. What can the FIG do to encourage gymnasts to go above and beyond in terms of risks and creativity like they used to do? I'd love for the FIG to somehow discover a way to encourage these sorts of mounts on beam again and take that approach to other elements on all apparatuses:

Six Minute Montage of Beam Heaven

Maybe there isn't anything the FIG to do, but rather, whoever is leading the charge has to take it upon themselves to go beyond the code and encourage others to follow suit in order to beat them in their own game a la the Soviets. It seems when the Romanians started dominating in the 90s under Belu and Bitang and then now with the U.S. dominating under the Karyoli way, and with the code changes during that period and then the open-ended scoring system, they as a whole were not willing to take that mantle...though the Dutch are at least pushing the sport in a different direction approaching beam and floor in a wholly different way than any other federation.

Beam mounts have been awful the past few Olympic cycles! It's rare to even see a B mount. I'm excited to just see a press to handstand.

Many difficulty points are allocated just to the dismount, but no one seems to care about the mounts.

I understand not wanting to take a big risk at the very beginning, but that doesn't excuse the complete lack of attention paid to the mounts. The Moceanu and Silivas mounts show that creative mounts don't have to be risky.

 

[smarts1]

I wish Peng Peng Lee was competing at these Olympics... She would have given us a nice and interesting beam routine...

 

[cheremary]

Yes, there is . It is today and they'll have two shows with the exact same line-up, possibly because tickets sold out quickly. It's at 11am and 3pm local time. I hope it's shown somewhere(BBC will show it). I know the acro people.

I saw some of the gala highlight clips and saw Simone and Laurie on beam and Madison and Aly on floor - did Gabby perform as well? Or Mustafina? The NBC app is terrible and random in what clips are listed, and don't have time to go through 3 hours of the two galas right now.

 

[Xela M]

So I was thinking, after all the discussion and celebration of Sanne Wever's creative approach to the balance beam, including her mount. What can the FIG do to encourage gymnasts to go above and beyond in terms of risks and creativity like they used to do? I'd love for the FIG to somehow discover a way to encourage these sorts of mounts on beam again and take that approach to other elements on all apparatuses:

Six Minute Montage of Beam Heaven

Maybe there isn't anything the FIG to do, but rather, whoever is leading the charge has to take it upon themselves to go beyond the code and encourage others to follow suit in order to beat them in their own game a la the Soviets. It seems when the Romanians started dominating in the 90s under Belu and Bitang and then now with the U.S. dominating under the Karyoli way, and with the code changes during that period and then the open-ended scoring system, they as a whole were not willing to take that mantle...though the Dutch are at least pushing the sport in a different direction approaching beam and floor in a wholly different way than any other federation.

I'm actually shocked by how much I loved the Dutch team! I didn't expect them of all nations to try to revolutionize gymnastics and bring back the good old days. The Russians should be doing that! They will never beat the US at their own game of tumbling actrobatics and considtency. Russia should be looking at bringing back beauty and creativity!

 

[bardtoob]

I am certain Nellie Kim would love to fly off from her home in the US to other countries to see what they are good at, then increase the start value for those items while decreasing what the Americans are good at . . . but this is both corrupt and would not work. The US has so many gymnasts that those with the correct combination of skills would eventually come to the surface.

At best, the CoP can only encourage greater variety and artistry by adding more variety to the list of elements that score well. As of now, acrobatics and multi-rotation turns score well because they increase the likelihood that a gymnast will fall over; turns do not have a high value because they somehow are "more artistic".

 

[AYS]

I just saw on Twitter that Simone will be flag bearer in the closing ceremonies!

Eta: Biles that is, although obvious from the thread.

 

[Buzz]

YAY Simone!

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

Yep, how wonderful for her!

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/simone-biles-chosen-team-usas-flag-bearer-closing-ceremony

She'll look tiny! Aww

 

[barbk]

At best, the CoP can only encourage greater variety and artistry by adding more variety to the list of elements that score well. As of now, acrobatics and multi-rotation turns score well because they increase the likelihood that a gymnast will fall over; turns do not have a high value because they somehow are "more artistic".

I don't really care how hard wolf turns are; they are butt ugly and the time required to set one up interrupts the flow on both the beam and floor.

Are handstand skills (one-handed, turns) just too easy? Planche moves?

What kind of change would be needed to make more complicated mounts on the beam worthwhile for more competitors?

I also find the flipping little hand moves to be all kinds of ridiculous.

 

[bardtoob]

@barbk

The issue is that difficult mounts create the risk of falling off the beam even before the exercise starts.

 

[barbk]

@barbk

The issue is that difficult mounts create the risk of falling off the beam even before the exercise starts.

Then they should have a value commensurate with the risk. If they don't, that's a problem with the code, isn't it?

 

[Gazpacho]

@barbk

The issue is that difficult mounts create the risk of falling off the beam even before the exercise starts.

Then they should have a value commensurate with the risk. If they don't, that's a problem with the code, isn't it?

In the old days, a risky mount also wasn't compensated by the code of points. You could get a 10 start value for a routine with an easy mount just as you can get a high difficulty score today.

The idea of starting a routine with a fall has developed into something that petrifies gymnasts. It didn't stop the gymnasts a few decades ago from doing it anyway.

I can only explain it through a shift in personality and/or philosophy of gymnasts and coaches.

 

[VGThuy]

And that was back in the days when a step mattered much less a whole fall.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I am certain Nellie Kim would love to fly off from her home in the US to other countries to see what they are good at, then increase the start value for those items while decreasing what the Americans are good at . . . but this is both corrupt and would not work. The US has so many gymnasts that those with the correct combination of skills would eventually come to the surface.

At best, the CoP can only encourage greater variety and artistry by adding more variety to the list of elements that score well. As of now, acrobatics and multi-rotation turns score well because they increase the likelihood that a gymnast will fall over; turns do not have a high value because they somehow are "more artistic".

Not start value. There's no start value...

 

[elka_sk8]

I hope that everyone here is able to access this video.

"Karolyi"
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/martha-and-bela-karolyi-documentary-gymnastics-legends

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I finally got around to listening to TSL's interview with Kim Zemeskal too. I had no idea she was so injured in Barcelona- makes you wonder what might have been.

 

[Erin]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I finally got around to listening to TSL's interview with Kim Zmeskal too. I had no idea she was so injured in Barcelona- makes you wonder what might have been.

Especially when you look at the kind of shape she was in at the Olympic Trials:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QzKfEjEh4HA

That floor routine with the whip through to double layout tumbling line totally could have won the floor finals in Barcelona. It's really a shame that the Karolyis didn't seem to understand the fine line between training and overtraining because Kim basically peaked a couple of months early.

Been watching some early 90s gymnastics on YouTube lately and the fawning over Bela in 1992 is pretty disgusting. As is the amount of airtime he got. The worst (so far) is a segment at 1992 Nationals about Betty Okino's injuries where Bela basically blames her for being injured, saying she doesn't work hard enough at rehabbing and at becoming strong enough to prevent injuries. Ugh.

 

[just tuned in]

This photo of Maddie, Simone and Aly is one of their most flattering, IMO.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...-show-off-their-abs-in-bikinis-in-rio-w435477

 

[Rob]

And that was back in the days when a step mattered much less a whole fall.

I still hear commentators say that they need to stick the landing, and then the gold medal winner doesn't stick the landing.

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah I think a tenth back in the 10.0 system where gymnasts had similar start values and execution makes more of a difference than in an open ended system where a gymnast could be way ahead in both D-score and E-Score.

 

[hirshey girl]

Perk of being an Olympic champion: getting asked out by a NFL player. http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_30273458/watch-oakland-raiders-player-ask-aly-raisman-out
Sounds like Shawn Johnson was playing matchmaker. Cute!

 

[Gazpacho]

I still hear commentators say that they need to stick the landing, and then the gold medal winner doesn't stick the landing.

What I really don't like these days is the jump at the end of a tumbling pass on floor. They get bonus points for doing something that hides an inability to stick a landing.

 

[just tuned in]

What I really don't like these days is the jump at the end of a tumbling pass on floor. They get bonus points for doing something that hides an inability to stick a landing.

I agree, but I also think there is an over-emphasis on stuck landings. I think a controlled hop should be fine -- and I wonder if it is safer to the knees.

 

[Ka3sha]

Nikita Nagorny has a YouTube channel with few videos from Rio
https://youtube.com/channel/UCSwYtAL0eMZgT7NTgbmqxVA

 

[ilovepaydays]

I ask this out of genuine concern for his career and (most importantly) his health, but should John Orozco be doing the Kellogg's tour?

I understand that he probably needs the money. But I think another surgery or even more rehab would be more expensive. Sam Mikulak and Jake Dalton withdraw from last year's Worlds team to take care of injuries. And they probably took a financial hit at the time for that. Just saying.

 

[Rob]

I agree, but I also think there is an over-emphasis on stuck landings. I think a controlled hop should be fine -- and I wonder if it is safer to the knees.

I liked the day of the controlled step back with one foot.

I heard one of the commentators say that the somersault out of the tumbling run is outlawed post-Rio. It also masked the landing, but wasn't it outlawed because it was dangerous - could land on the neck?

 

[VGThuy]

I still think the one-leg launches into the tumbling passes are hilarious. The FIG had good intentions with that rule because they imagined golden age era choreography where gymnasts danced to the corners and smoothly transitioned into their tumbling runs as opposed to simply stepping or walking to the corners and take a breather before going into their tumbling run, but all it lead to was the latter but now they're just standing on one leg instead of two legs.

 

[Xela M]

This photo of Maddie, Simone and Aly is one of their most flattering, IMO.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity...-show-off-their-abs-in-bikinis-in-rio-w435477

too much!

 

[Rob]

I still think the one-leg launches into the tumbling passes are hilarious.

Yes, it could have its own element name - the stork stand.