Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Hedwig, Oct 8, 2011.
As the old thread has over 1000 posts - carry on.
What I found surprising - lots of people and articles seemed to indicate before that Wieber was the clear frontrunner for the AA and that Komova willl probably be second due to her old injury and hence not doing the Amanar.
Now she didn't do an Amanar and is still in the front right now. Where her scores better than expected or did Wieber get lower scores than expected?
I just watched an interview with Jordyn's coach (who is an awesome guy with a very good head on his shoulders) and he said she gave away some points on FX and for something on UB so she can improve some things but I think Komova really came in first with her UB routine which was way higher SV than Jordyn's routine. If she does and hits the Amanar along with her other events, Komova will probably win the AA, but if they both hit all routines and she does Yur double full, it might be closer. I think the biggest thing about the AA predictions was that Jordyn was totally healthy and Komova didn't seem to be which is where I think some folks were getting their predictions. Both girls are worthy champions in my opinion and I think the AA final will be great.
I actuailly posted that I thought Komova could do it based on bars. Although I expected Komova's DTY to score higher in relation to Wieber's amanar (althoguh thought the Amanar would score higher).
I think part of it was Komova for awhile wasn't even competiting full difficulty on floor and also looked inconsistent in training. I still wonder if that Amanar will be ready, and I also think that it will be very tight for her without the Amanar.
This being said when you think about it Komova sent out if you think about it a psychological message with that one. Wieber's coach commented on twitter about how Wieber could score 8 tenths more based on little mistakes (when someone pointed out Komova's potential 7 tenths upgrade). (Komova had her errors on floor and a small wobble on beam)
Vika's bar routine isn't that much higher in start value than Jordyn's. Its maybe only 3tenths/4 tenths higher. The main difference is Komova's execution on bars is much better. Jordyn's bars are kind of labored. Jordyn can upgrade her dismount to the double/double tucked but that dismount looks a bit dodgy may cost her more than its worth.
You can now make your predictions for the women's competition:
Edit: I didn't include any alternate, because if an athlete from, say, USA, withdraws, chances are that athlete will be replaced by another one from his country, and it would have made entering all the possible entries impossible. So should an alternate get into a final, for the prediction contest, we will just forget the result of this particular athlete, as if he or she hadn't competed.
For Komova though long term its a good sign that she can beat/come close to Wieber without an Amanar. Because Komova didn't get to do any real upgrades for this year. She was pretty much fighting to get back to her YOG level. As a Junior she competed a Patterson, and she's reportedly training a double layout. I'd imagine her bars are upgradeable too. So next year if the Amanar isn't fully consistent she can add in some of those things, with more training time to give herself the edge over Wieber. I don't know if Komova will win this year though I worry about that Amanar. This being said the reigning world AA rarely wins the Olympic AA.
I love Komova's gymnastics so I'm not complaining. That said, I seriously grew to respect Jordyn Wieber and am impressed with her (and the rest of the American women).
I don't mind Wieber, I like her better than Bross. But Komova is the direction I want the sport to go in.
The direction I want the sport to go in is less difficulty upgrades.
I am stuck in the old system and thought it was so much more exciting to have like 10 gymnasts fighting for gold in the 10.0 system. Now it is pretty much decided beforehand with a few surprises here and there that seem to result mostly out of injuries.
I wish the code would change back to 10.0 or somehow stop this madness.
Well obviously that but Komova would hardly be hurt by that development. She's a gorgeous gymnast. The way she floats on beam is just incredible. The system doesn't reward her enough IMO.
I wonder - is there a discussion at all how to overhaul the code or the system altogether to stop this plethora of injuries (and make the sport more exciting again)?
One thing I want FIG to do is to scale UB scoring back, so that it's closer to the other apparatuses. It's really not good that a gymnast could be excellent on UB and good on the other 3 apparatuses can beat a gymnast who is excellent on the other 3 apparatuses but good on bars. Not saying anything specific here, but speaking in generalities.
I think most countries made proposals for 2013 that would scale UB back (like a two root rule).
Vault though also needs to be scaled back. The Amanar is worth to much. This being said I thought the bars scoring was screwy. It seems Komova aside the judges were going hard on the higher D score bar routines. And that's fine. but to reward someone like Raisman vs someone like Huang isn't fair. If your going to be hard, be hard on all.
Who are you driving at? nonsense
Komova doesn't have weak apparatuses and holds the lead fairly.
She won 2 apparatuses as opposed to Wieber who won none
Another change I want, though not as serious, is for the freakin' shiny leo trend to end. I'm sick of shiny leos.
Also, can the US seriously have a choreography supervisor? I vote for Miss Val from UCLA. Their routines are outstanding.
WTH are you talking about? This has nothing to do with Komova or Wieber. I'm talking about the fact that UB has been the ONE event that determines outcomes since this open-ended scoring system came to play. If it wasn't a problem, then most of the countries (including the top ones) wouldn't have made proposals to fix it. Nothing to do with Komova and Wieber, and BTW, I said earlier that I love Komova's gymnastics (even though I think her coaches are doing her a disservice with that horrible Eurotrash Swan Lake FX and her UB composition with a Giant 1/2, I still want Komova to win).
ok pardon) misunderstanding
Mustafina last year didn't win bars JYY did in the AA. She scaled back actually Bridget didn't win bars either. Yes Nastia and Yilin were handily helped by their 7.7 bar routines in 2008 and it was a little much. But the facts are that Shawn was pretty much the weakest of all the top All Arounders besides (Pavs) on bars. While only two gymnasts in that AA had 7.7 routines, plenty of gymnasts in the AA had 6.9, 7.0 routines. Its on Shawn that Shawn couldn't get her bars D score higher, because plenty of gymnasts besides her were able to do so. In comparision to the other top all arounders and I'm not just talking about Yilin and Nastia, Shawn was weak on bars.
Both Shawn and Nastia has a weak event where the other had low difficulty but fairly excellent/good execution. Although I'd argue Nastia's vault was better executed than Shawn's bars. Its not like Shawn was that much better on Liukin on floor or beam. And really Komova's bars D score isn't that much higher than Wiebers, Douglas etc. Its her execution that is better.
I absolutely think bars is a bit much but lately its been vault not bars thats been the difference maker.
So I guess it's ok then that a great bars routine can score in the high 15-16 range whereas if a great FX routine with full difficulty breaks 15, it's considered a success?
Let's look at potential D scores here. Vault is pretty much maxed out at 6.5 more or less, but most women have scores ranging from 5.8-6.3.
Uneven Bars...we've seen D scores up to 7.5, a whole point higher than an Amanar. Of course not everyone is He Kexin, so we mostly see D scores in 6.2-6.8 range. But those are considered good/great routines. Again higher than Vault. Also, unlike the other apparatuses, if you're not good on bars, you can score really low while the other apparatuses tend to have more of a close range from a low score to a high score.
I see at this Worlds, the highest D score is a 6.8. I see D score ranges from 5.8-6.5 mostly. Not as high as bars.
I shouldn't have to explain floor because if a routine with full difficulty breaks 15.00 total, then it's considered excellent.
Most of the range is 5.6-6.4 way below UB, and not to mention all the deductions now for taking steps and whatnot...
Anyway, I hope the FIG passes some of those proposals because it'll make the apparatuses more even with one another.
BTW, I was one of the people who cheered when Nastia won, but even I acknowledge that the code played to Nastia's strengths and against Johnson's in AA.
Last I checked there was a girl who did a double front vault that is worth i the 7s D score wise. So if you'll bring up He, than that girl should be brought up.
Yes bars has higher D scores than vault, but vault tends to have higher execution scores than bars. There's in a lot of ways less things to mess up on vault than there is on bars, and I actually think THAT's a problem. You can't just look at elements you have to look at scores.
As for floor it seems to me that a lot of the girls have similar top D scores. There maybe one/two tenth difference. I wonder if difficulty is fully rewarded but then again I don't think artistry on floor is rewarded enough either. Pavlova was frankly robbed in Beijing on floor...
I agree the system needs to change but you can't single out bars and not point out vault. Especially since we have so many girls injuring themselves on vault-not bars.
Actually, I think Vega, Maroney and Wieber have really great FX routines this year. Raisman's is good too (compared to what she had previously, of course), and Gabby's works when she hits her passes.
Nastia couldn't find another time to announce her comeback?!
ANYWAY, I'm excited about the TF and the AA, even though they both seem to be two-horse races.
Echoes of Tonya Harding around about USNs time for a few years. Well, in Nastia's favor at least hers is gymnastics related and not news that she was in truck wreck, is going to be a boxer, or recently saved someone's life.
I don't think TF is a two horse race. I think China actually may be the bigger challenge than Russia (although the Russians didn't do their Amanars and had floor problems). The Chinese are capable of scoring a LOT LOT higher on bars and many screamed that the ones who hit were actually underscored.
I cannot seem to find the schedule. Now it is men for two days, right?
And when do women start again?
When is the AA?
ah, finally found it:
TUE 11 OCT 19:00 Women's Teams Finals
WED 12 OCT 18:00 Men's Teams Finals
THU 13 OCT 18:00 Women's AllAround
FRI 14 OCT 19:00 Men's AllAround
SAT 15 OCT Apparatus Final Day 1
I just saw that Chusso is 20(!!) years older than the youngest gymnast competing and 8 years older than the second oldest gymnast competing.
She is really an inspiration.
It is amazing but it also suggests a weakness on vault too. I think vaults become pretty compulsory with most people only doing yurchenkos. I think some things need to be changed perhaps require gymnasts to do two vaults etc...Oksana being from a different time has an advantage there.
^Shall we add that to the already exhaustive list of "Rules that blatantly need changing"?
True. I've just noticed the UB scores and how shocking China was. They have the potential to really outscore their qualie score, but let's be honest - that's hardly a given. I hope they can though.
Don't worry about China. Even if they bumble through this championships, they'll be Gold contenders in London with some "new" gymnasts.
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