Grishuk & Platov

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by lulu, May 2, 2013.

  1. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    A funny observation is related to how well Platov did coaching the Kerrs, a brother-sister team. Grishuk and Platov had zero sexual chemistry with each other, and their competitive programs wisely avoided romantic themes. Their sentimental exhibition programs always left me cringing. In some sense, they were a pseudo-brother-sister team.

    This is why I suspect Platov could be the perfect coach for the Shibutanis.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  2. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Yes! I haven't put much thought in it, but yes, Platov could be a fantastic coach for Maia & Alex.
     
  3. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    Better late than never, videos from G&P's career:

    (not by any means exhaustive, but hopefully a good overview of G&P's career. ). One thing I noticed, is that even in the earliest routines, when they were the Soviet/Russian #3 team, commentators still noted the difficulty of their dances. Maybe it was their age and their relative 'rawness' as a team, but I thought they did a fantastic job of pulling off blues music. :inavoid:

    1990 OSP (European Championship): http://youtu.be/ccaKs47AXZQ
    1990 FD-Zorbra the Greek (Worlds): http://youtu.be/LVFGuJCXECA

    1991 OD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/1zm21kQp1ME
    1991 FD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/pVS5uFLGtgU

    1992 CD (Olympics):http://youtu.be/x_tGYUo0nro & 1992 CD II (Olympics): http://youtu.be/nbPk3-NWIG0
    1992 OD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/LN4plbOTmVQ
    1992 FD (Olympics): http://youtu.be/BRlNzp_V35A
    1992 EX (Olympics): http://youtu.be/M_0ImXXuzIM

    1993 OD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/U8ULUUtRCPA
    1993 FD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/RKHVqOz9x0A

    1994 CD (Blues): http://youtu.be/4SQL84Yusjk
    1994 CD (Starlight Waltz): http://youtu.be/acFlGbz33yE
    1994 OD (Olympics): http://youtu.be/BDYc8lWDDis
    1994 FD (Olympics): http://youtu.be/27cZ4wx8470
    1994 EX (Olympics): http://youtu.be/dUdP1356OSo

    1995 OD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/uE_9XOe72B0
    1995 FD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/IdGgAY1-hng
    1995 EX (Worlds): http://youtu.be/PJDKqWKhgfI

    1996 OD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/n6pzcrctcks
    1996 FD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/FrpC9QEXAZs

    1997 OD (Worlds): http://youtu.be/kRxA76J09T8
    1997 FD (Euros): http://youtu.be/i5zK32mEFfk
    Ex (Frozen): http://youtu.be/oQ-vkRWh90c

    1998 OD (Olympics): http://youtu.be/XD0UKQ4TG8A
    1998 FD (Olympics): http://youtu.be/KXNmarKjyiY
    1998 EX (You'll See): Olympics: http://youtu.be/UOuxoDh5Svo

    and...
    2006 G&P reunited: http://youtu.be/RFA5hMIfU40
     
  4. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    They were one of the greatest pair ever...
     
  5. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I like their You'll See Ex, but I think they spend too much time on the ice in the Frozen Ex..
     
  6. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I strongly disagree, thinking of their blues OD and FD, Libertango, The Feeling Begins, and Frozen. IMO they had excellent sexual chemistry. It was not the K&P type of romantic love chemistry, more like it seemed as if any moment they could rip off their clothes and have hatesex, IMO.
     
  7. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    :respec:
     
  8. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Especially "You'll see". It was a very intense exhibition. :swoon:
     
  9. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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    OMG One of my favourite exhibitions Pasha on Evgeney's shoulder:swoon:When she's miming I don't need anyone :D

    That is one diva moment :glamor:
    I loved most of what they did except for the Stepping out FD .The Libertango was one of the OD one of the best ODS .

    Even her pro days with Zhulin I loved her :swoon:
    Has anyone a link please to a solo performance she did I think in 06 it was an egyptian theme on the show where she was reunited with Platov? Would love to see it again .
     
  10. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I just came into ice dancing fandom during the height of Anissina/Peizerat and in comparison, I found G/P to be relatively sexless with one another. Not to say Grishuk didn't exude some sort of sex appeal and that Platov was unattractive, but for some reason they really gave out a vibe that wasn't quite brother/sister but wasn't quite sexy, and it certainly wasn't romantic.

    I think it really is Platov though because even though I think he is a handsome man, he just doesn't exude that kind of heat, and yet I found Grishuk and Zhulin to generate a sort of steaminess.

    That said, their Libertango was HAWT. There are always exceptions.
     
  11. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I don't find that they gave off any sexiness. It seemed like they didn't like each other, which, from what I've heard, was true. There were a lot of attempts at artificial chemistry, but they didn't really work. It didn't matter too much though since they were so talented on the blades. I re-watched some of the old programs and I think '97 was probably their best year. Libertango was just immaculate. The OD from '96 was amazing too.
     
  12. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Active Member

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    Are there any interviews (written or recorded) with him saying such things? At that time, I tried to get hold of every magazine and every TV show they were on, but this has to be the most outrageous statement I've ever heard on that competition (saying of his competitors that they didn't deserve what they had been given is simply blunt and bad sportsmanship). Of course he's always been a person with some iinfluence ever since he and Torvill won the '84 Olympics, but as he himself took part in that '94 competition, his analysis could have been only a very subjective one, as everyone involved in FS would have known.

    Evgeny has been praised for his abilities as a coach many times, I remember expecially the Kerrs (because I like them so much), and I'm sure he'd be a good coach for the Shibutanis as well.
    As for the chemistry on ice - I have always loved couples/pairs and from a later point ice dancing has grown on me. I think that "romantic" chemistry is vastly overrated as a contribution to any program. Couples in both pairs and ice dancing can choose from a variety of roles to play. Of course, the great romantic couples like Romeo and Juliet have always been and will always remain a source of inspiration, but there is more to partnership than romance. There were, for sure, couples who did profit from their loving relationship, in a way that it made them stronger mentally as well as a unit on the ice (K/P evidently - but I think they were technically so outstanding that it would have worked out anyways; and DenStas maybe, as it shows in their later programs), but the many couples who were/are not romantically involved and did just as well or even better is remakable (T/D foremost, and, of course, G/P, A/P, and a line of successful bother-sister-teams, the Duchesnays to begin with, Kerrs, Shibutanis, Zaretzkis...). G/P were neither lovers nor brother and sister. Good actors can fake lovers and won't be hurt, but lovers, once split, can't fake that everything is still well (see U/Z, miserably). Wasn't it Dean who once said that it is better not to be married on the ice? Yes.

    I don't think that G/P couldn't stand each other. Being not romantically involved doens't mean they abhorred each other. It would have been much too hard to work together in a very physical way for years on end if they had disliked each other.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  13. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I do remember thinking Grishuk and Platov were "evil" since Canadian television (I guess Tracy Wilson) kind of portrayed them that way. Granted, Pasha was an.. interesting.. character, but that doesn't change that they were good on ice.
     
  14. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing TV interviews with Dean in which he put forth his point not so subtly, but maybe not in those words "they did not deserve OGM." It's been many years and I cannot remember the word-for-word quotes. Don't remember reading any print interview though because I don't routinely read print articles about skating.

    I don't think the issue is whether they like or were attracted to each other off the ice. Grishuk and Platov just did not have any sexual chemistry with each other in their performance. I agree with a previous poster that Platov might be more responsible for the impression --- he was an excellent partner but his temperament is such that he just can't do the steamy stuff with conviction, and perhaps less with Grishuk. Don't get me wrong, I love Platov and have heard he is a lovely person, but <shrug> he just can't do it like Ponomarenko or Peizerat ... :p

    Ice dancing traditionally has a lot (!) of simulated love making. The emotional intimacy and sexual chemistry between partners can be a powerful performance element in the sport, far more than single skating or pairs. Some teams have more of it (many of them not married to each other), some have less. They don't have to be married or have a romantic relationship with each other to project a sense of romantic steaminess to the audience.

    Whether the degree of sexual chemistry between partners is something quantifiable or should be a part of the judging criteria ... that's another matter. I don't know about the 6.0 era, but certainly under IJS such chemistry is a far, far less a factor, even subconsciously.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
  15. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    It's not just about sexual chemistry, but just chemistry in general. Look at the Duschenays. Their dances were not romantic at all, but they were still able to project a special connection between two partners who really knew and interacted with one another as if it was second nature.
     
  16. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Active Member

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    I think this is part of the nature of being siblings - the Duchesnay's let no doubt that they deeply trusted each other, they were supportive and protective of each other. Plus, their looks helped them a lot to convey even the "steamy stuff" of ice dancing - I think Paul, as he looked and could express characters, was the one of the best actors on ice, and Isabelle's looks and temper matched him perfectly. Siblings will never divorce, they'll remain close relatives forever, on and off the ice. It's not easy, but obviously managable, to make the best of a close relationship that doesn't allow any hints of romance in a sport that is highly romantically suggestive.

    Of course "chemistry", as Jun Y explained, as such must ineveitably be there to make a team work. If it's there, it affects the people involved on and off the ice. It needn't neccessarily be romantic love, but may. We may ask what's first with the most successful romantic couples: the affection for each other, that lead to working together, or the working together on the ice that maybe resulted in an off-ice relationship.

    As for Evgeny - maybe I haven't yet watched enough of his and Oksana's performances, but I can't see that his expression, his temper or his ability to play the roles he was given were any inferior to, say, Zhulin's. Had G/P tried more romantic roles, I stongly guess that they would have been able to portray lovers.
     
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Tracy is usually a good commentator but she really trashed G&P during the 1998 Olympics while working as a commentator. Oksana/Pasha was upset about the negative reporting against them, after they won the OGM (deservedly so, IMO).
     
  18. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I think Pasha was a fan of laying on the ice excessively for some reason. I noticed her routines with Zhulin also included a lot of laying or sliding on the ice, while Platov's routines with Usova didn't include much of that.
     
  19. poirierpaul

    poirierpaul Member

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    Platov beat Pasha according to her interviews so maybe that is why she seemed to not like him.
     
  20. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    I don't believe her for a second although I'd believe him if he claimed that Pasha hit him.
     
  21. poirierpaul

    poirierpaul Member

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    So I guess his really nice guy image might be a facade of sorts.
     
  22. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    The pharmacy blond hair might have helped Grishuk project the image of a sex bomb to some extent but I never found her particularly sexy or sensual on the ice. Just a personal perception, of course.
    It's unbelievable she and Platov could work so extraordinarily well together for such a long time although they probably never really liked each other.
     
  23. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I don't see any reason for sexiness to be a part of ice dance. I have no problem with G&P not projecting that. Actually I prefer that ice dancers don't try hard to create that impression. So I have no problem with brother & sister teams. There are different kinds of human relationships and they all are important. I prefer pure skating where skating skills are the most important thing, not drama. It's not ice theater. JMO.
     
  24. Nours

    Nours Active Member

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  25. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Active Member

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    ITA. But I must admit I like a bit of drama here and there, since drama doesn't neccessarily mean romance, let alone sexual implications. Drama can include any role a program might hold for a skater.

    I think we need to distinguish between a) romance b) sensuality c) sexiness . All this can be included in a program, or maybe one skater alone may convey all of them at once. There are couples who for good reason avoid any hint of romance - especially the brother-sister-teams - but may appear truely sensual. IMO, there was some sesuality in G/P's programs, but very sublime.
     
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I am fine with drama, and even romance & sensuality at times. I just don't want it to be the defining factor for ice dance. There can be a lot of drama without it. For example, the Duschenays 'Missing' had tons of it, without the sensuality. Krylova-Ovssianikov's Masquerade Waltz had a lot of drama, without the romance/sensuality/sexiness. Sometimes - not always- too much sexiness can appear 'cheap' or vulgar if not choreographed with care. A great example of sensuality & beauty are the pro routines of Annenko & Sretenski.
     
  27. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Active Member

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    Absolutely, coudln't have put it better. I didn't mean to contradict - I meant to say that drama adds to certain routines (you mentioned "Missing", best example IMO), but of course should not replace real skating skills. Totally agree about cheap sexyness, it kills the beauty of the sport.
     
  28. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Did they ever live together? I actually heard the opposite, that Pasha verbally abused and slapped him around. I also saw an interview with Usova, just last night actually, during which she stated that Zhulin slapped her around. Zhulin was interviewed too and didn't exactly deny it. It was on youtube but I'm too lazy to go find the link lol, it was after the great Partner Swap in 1998-99. I would believe that Zhulin was abusive to Maya as it didn't seem that he treated her very well emotionally, what with fooling around with Pasha behind her back. Plus he seems like kind of a jerk, while Pasha seemed like the jerkier (crazier? some of those tortured facial expressions after the programs and in the K&C make her seem less than sane) one between her and Platov.
     
  29. snowbird

    snowbird Active Member

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    I humbly dispute this. I found that Grishuk/Platov always gave the audience their money's worth. I sat in the first row at Harvard the first time Usova/Platov skated publicly and saw this piece of garbage.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FarSQOFgtg4
     
  30. lulu

    lulu New Member

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    You are very welcome! Out of all of their programs from 1990-1993, their 1991 FD is my least favorite FD from that period. But, I thought their other three free dances from that period were excellent. Watching G&P's routines, I was surprised by just how much I really enjoyed their earlier routines. I did like their blues OD that year though, but then again, I've enjoyed all of G&P's blues routines, be it their 1991 OD, 1993 FD, or 1994 CD. A bit fun to compare G&P's 1991 Blues OD to U&Z's (Summertime :swoon:) and K&P's, since, IIRC, they were all still being coached by Dubova at that time.