Greatest GPF champion(s) not to have won a World or Olympic title?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Jan 28, 2013.

Greatest GPF champion(s) not to have won a World or Olympic title?

Poll closed Feb 28, 2013.
  1. Tatiana Malinina (1998/99)

    2 vote(s)
    2.4%
  2. Sasha Cohen (2002/03)

    42 vote(s)
    50.6%
  3. Fumie Suguri (2003/04)

    7 vote(s)
    8.4%
  4. Emanuel Sandhu (2003/04)

    9 vote(s)
    10.8%
  5. Jeremy Abbott (2008/09)

    10 vote(s)
    12.0%
  6. Alissa Czisny (2010/11)

    4 vote(s)
    4.8%
  7. Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov (2012/13)

    9 vote(s)
    10.8%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    Winning a Grand Prix Final (or the Champions Series Final as it used to be known) is extremely difficult. So difficult, that it has only ever been won 7 times by skaters who have either never been up to that point, or gone on to be, a World or Olympic champion (although some of these 7 are still skating, and could still go on to be a World or Olympic champion).

    In the Ice Dance, all of the winners of the GPF/Champions Series Final have been World or Olympic champions. All but one of the Pairs winners have been too, the exception being Volosozhar & Trankov who could well go on to become World/Olympic champions.

    It is in the singles events that there has been the highest incidence of skaters winning the GPF/Champions Series Final, but failing to win a World or Olympic title - 4 ladies and 2 men

    Here is a list of the skaters who have become GPF/Champions Series Final champions without (so far) winning a World or Olympic title:-

    1998/99 - Tatiana Malinina Free Skate

    2002/03 - Sasha Cohen Short Program, 1st Free Skate, 2nd Free Skate

    2003/04 - Fumie Suguri Short Program, Free Skate

    2003/04 - Emanuel Sandhu Free Skate

    2008/09 - Jeremy Abbott Short Program, Free Skate

    2010/11 - Alissa Czisny Short Program, Free Skate

    2012/13 - Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov Short Program, Free Skate

    So, which of these is the greatest?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  2. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I picked Alissa. She and Sasha stand out to me, but I've always preferred Alissa.
     
  3. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I picked Sasha but I don't even think V/T should be on the list. They just won their first GPF this year without the best competition being there and they will probably win Worlds this year.
     
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Malinina- was never winning a Worlds. Even the year she won the GPF upsetting a very splatty Butyrskaya, she was never going to beat both Kwan and Butyrskaya, along with the other contenders, to win Worlds. The year she won the GPF however was the year of her big golden opportunity to medal at Worlds, and had she done a clean short she would have won the World silver that year. Oh well. I wish she had, she was a great jumper at her peak.

    Suguri- was never going to win Worlds. She just wasnt good enough. Even the year she won the GPF nobody thought she could win Worlds, everyone assuming it would be one of Kwan or Cohen for sure. It ended up being Arakawa but IMO Arakawas performances at Worlds that year were too strong for Fumie to have beaten, maybe a silver or bronze behind Shizuka had she done a great Q round and done similar or better performances to the GP final and her latter World performances the rest of the way, but that is it. 2005 she could have again won silver or bronze with her 4CC performances, but no way gold, Slutskaya was way too good for her to come even close to. 2006 was maybe a chance, but that wasnt a real Worlds anyway, and perhaps Meissner with her triple-triples and scoring 130 in the LP was too much for her to ever beat as well.

    Sandhu- based on the skater he actually was, not what he might have been with a stronger work ethic, he also was never going to win a Worlds. Had he skated up to his GP final standards he might have won silver or bronze at the 04 Worlds, but not gold. The standard was just too high. Cant think of any year he could have won Worlds even with his best skating, even completely ignoring his massive consistency issues, based on his actual abilities he had reached. Now with his natural talent had he worked like Elvis Stojko from day 1, and been better coached, it might have been possible.

    Abbott- would have won Evans World and Olympic titles from 2009 and 2010 had he duplicated his GP final (2009) or National (2010) performances, but as it was he came nowhere close ever, so I wouldnt pick him either.

    Volosozhar & Trankov- they are for sure winning 1 of the 2009 Worlds 2010 Olympics, and quite possibly both, so I ignore them for that reason. If by some miracle they win neither they will continue on to win the 2010 Worlds (where S&S presumably having won the 2010 Oly Gold in this hypothetical are surely retired now) and probably onwards anyway. In essence the odds of them never winning a World or Olympic event are probably about 3% or less so not even worth considering them.

    Czisny- Definitely not. Only year she could have medaled at Worlds was 2011, and that is only a bronze if she skated perfectly, and that was one of the worst Worlds ever with a 5 triple Miki Ando won.


    So the obvious winner in a runaway is Sasha Cohen who would have won all of the 2004 Worlds, 2006 Olympics, and 2006 Worlds with a clean LP, and maybe even the 2003 Worlds if she did a clean short and skated cleanly after landing her triple lutz-triple toe in the long, even if at the 2006 Olympics she would have had alot of help from her main competitors in doing so.
     
  5. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Just curious, but what are you basing that he had a poor work ethic on.
     
  6. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Everything I have heard, including people I know who actually have been in that rink and seen the chaos with McLeod and her groups, and Sandhu's diva meltdowns. Plus common knowledge in the skating World it seems, when has it not been brought up at same point.
     
  7. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    You can never trust top skaters' opinions of each other's work habits. They are constantly putting out scuttlebutt about each others' laziness. So I tend to not form judgments based just on reputation. Sandra Bezic acted like Sandhu was really lazy, but then she also pretends to be Dr Phil and know more about situations than she does.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
  8. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I love Doctor Who, but is he really supposed to monkey with the results like that?
     
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  9. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    :D
     
  10. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Sasha Cohen for sure. Volosozhar/Trankov could still win a World or Olympic title.
     
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  11. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Are they really the only pair/dance team winners without a world/Olympic title?
     
  12. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Seemed surprising to me, too, but they are indeed the only pair or dance team to win the GPF and not win any World or Olympic gold.
     
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  13. Ares

    Ares Guest

    I agree with most of this. I don't think she could have won 2004 Worlds even if she skated cleanly. She showed up with that Robin Wagner-ized gutted mess of a free skate, that even if skated flawlessly would have been mediocre. I think what Arakawa delivered that night was beyond reach for Cohen. If she would have kept the original exquisite TT Swan Lake, I think she would have had a strong case for the win.

    Sasha was such a beautiful skater though, it's a shame she was never able to win a world title. A clean victory at the 2006 Worlds would have been a wonderful conclusion to her career.
     
  14. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    Sasha had 3 of 9 counting judges put her over Arakawa even with her very subpar skate with one major mistake, numerous shaky landings, and omited combinations. Kwan had 4 of 9 counting judges put her over Arakawa and her triple-triple fest with only 5 triples. Sasha skating cleanly at the 04 Worlds would have won easily. Whether she deserved to or not is another question, but Shizuka just didnt have the rep at that time, unlike 2006 when with 5 triples she easily won over Cohen with 5, and would have won over Slutskaya with only 5 too.
     
  15. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    Abbott since he was a more talented skater than Cohen with stronger jumps and better edges.
     
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  16. KimGOAT

    KimGOAT Active Member

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    You are wrong here. I dont think Sasha would have deserved to win those Worlds over Shizuka long program even had she gone clean, but she would have. The judges were waiting to give her those Worlds on a silver platter, just like the judges at U.S Nationals that year were waiting to give her the U.S title on a silver platter, and just like the GPF judges were waiting to give her that event on a silver platter, and she blew it all herself all three times. It could be argued Shizuka at Worlds, Kwan at U.S Nationals, and even Fumie at the GPF skated well enough to deserve to beat even a clean Sasha but I am pretty sure none of them would have. She was the anointed one and she was the only one who could lose those events, and lose them all she did.
     
  17. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    This is not to take away from Cohen or Suguri who overall netted more medals at Worlds (and also the Olympics in Cohen's case), but IMO out of everyone on the list, Abbott was clearly the best skater. Sandhu was great but his programs were never as detailed or complex.
     
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  18. sylvestercat

    sylvestercat Member

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    Jeremy Abbott. He is the best skater of that list, regardless of achievements. Sasha is a distant 2nd best. The rest on that list don't compare.
     
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  19. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    No contest. Jeremy Abbott.
     
  20. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say the same thing. If she had skated the way she did at the cheesefest a few weeks later, she would have won.
     
  21. rickysortout

    rickysortout New Member

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    Cohen by a long way. She was unlucky to skate in the era of Kwan, Slutskaya, Arakawa. In any other era she would dominate and win a ton of world titles.

    Abbott is overhyped. He hasn't even achieved as much as Johnny Weir.
     
  22. rickysortout

    rickysortout New Member

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    Why are Malinina and Czisny on the poll. The only way either would ever win worlds is if a bunch of people didn't skate. Malinina would have won silver at the 99 worlds had she not stepped out of her triple lutz in the short, but it would have been a real distant 2nd, nowhere close to winning. A world title for any of those ladies was never a realistic goal. Even a weak event in a weak field would not be enough for them.
     
  23. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, especially Czisny. At least Malinina was 4th once. It's funny that V/T are included since they won the Olympics but I know this is an old poll.
     
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It is funny too that V&T have so little votes, when they are by far the strongest skater(s) on this list, but I guess everyone knew their big titles were inevitable.
     
  25. gotoschool

    gotoschool Active Member

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    I would put Sasha just slightly higher than Fumie. I don't know the other skaters well enough to compare.

    I like Sasha a lot as a skater and really wanted her to win a World Championship, but how would she have dominated or even won at worlds against Yamaguchi or Ito in the late 80s and early 90s or Asada and Kim from 2007-2014. Even Ando at her peak with her jumps would have been a huge challenge. These are other eras. I just think more respect should be shown for the level of talent of these skaters. As for Mao, how could she be considered weaker than Slutskaya, Arakawa and Cohen, since she beat all of them during the 2005-2006 Grand Prix season and won the title? Meanwhile, Kim didn't even compete against them because she was in the Junior Grand Prix in 2005-2006. Cohen could have possibly won in 2011-2012, but this is cherry picking, particularly if she didn't win in 2006 Worlds without Kwan, Slutskaya, Arakawa or Asada and Kim.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  26. rickysortout

    rickysortout New Member

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    I think Sasha could win over Kristi in 91-92. Kristi never skated cleanly or did 7 triples due to her salchow, so already Sasha's usual 1 or 2 mistakes is negated. Sasha arguably has better artistry, unarguably has better spins and spirals, and Kristi did not have big or high quality jumps, and her flutz was as bad as Sasha's. Jill in 1990 would be easy to beat if her figures were decent.

    Sasha could easily win any major event in the 93-95 period.

    Someone like Witt doesn't look that impressive, and also wasn't that good in figures, so I could see Sasha winning a lot of titles in that era too.

    Sasha would have good chances in years like 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012, where Yu Na and Mao either weren't there or made mistakes.
     
  27. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Sasha would have been good at figures or not.. no idea really.. possibly because her basic skating skills were good, but with her tendency to choke, she might have got nervous and messed them up.
     
  28. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I doubt Cohen quite had the concentration or precision to excel at figures.

    Malinina were close to medaling in 1999 and Czisny too in 2011.
     
  29. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    And Alissa Czisny finished in 5th ;)

    :confused: What skating did you watch ?
     
  30. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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