Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Feb 23, 2012.
Who is/was the greatest European singles male skater?
I am surprised that Robin Cousins did not get any votes (so far). He was one of the greatest pro skaters, IMO, a true artist on the ice.
Cousins was easily a better skater than Curry IMO.
Plushenko and Joubert : 10 medals at European Championships !
Evgeni Pluschenko and Ulrich Salchow - legends (still living) and figure skating record holders
I voted for Yagudin.
I never got bored watching him skate.
I still miss him.
His free skate at the 99' Worlds was amazing.
I voted for John Curry, but could have chosen Robin Cousins as well.
If one counts the medals, Plushenko is the greatest European singles skater among those mentioned in the poll, but I have hardly ever enjoyed any his performances, quite the opposite. On the other hand I have always loved the skating of Curry and Cousins VERY much...
Yagudin by a mile. Plushenko great jumper and competitor but not with the all around skills of Yagudin.
John Curry. He is incomparable. Without quads nor combination jumps his Olympic performance is more compelling than any one else's before or since. He makes simple movements so beautiful and meaningful. Even his double jumps are exciting because they have good flow into and out of and so much part of the music. He is the only skater who can express something with jumps, other than athleticism.
Why aren't any of the "early greats" (Ulrich Salcow, etc.) even listed?
Ulrich Salchow and Karl Schaffer should definetly by included .. Figure Skating was basically an euro sport for the first third of its existence.
too many from john curry, alexi yagudin and a couple of others from earlier era, hard to chose, i have to think this one through.
I voted for Plushenko, may be not the most complete (Yagudin IMO) or the most artistic (Lambiel IMO), but just considering that he has been top level for nearly 15 years (?) it's amazing.
I thought of them, particularly Salchow, but the sport was so different back then (figures only) that it is really difficult to compare them with skaters that skated to music. Also, I know only a couple of the really old skaters, so I could have omitted some others that deserved to be on the poll.
Thanks for pointing this out.
I voted Yags because Kevin VDP was not an option.
first skater that came in mind would be Ulrich Salchow
even before Pluschenko
Who is/was THE greatest European singles male skater?
I had to say John Curry. He paved the way for a revolution in mens skating style.
If you ask me who is the CURRENT greatest European singles male skater, I would say Plushenko, with Joubert not far behind. If I had more time I might argue for Petrenko, too...
They had free skating back then as well. How else did Ulrich invent the salchow jump?? Here's the only known clip of his skating:
Nikolay Panin should be an option.
How about starting a poll of skaters before 1940? I am not knowledgeable about them; I only know a couple of them. I know there are many knowledgeable folks here.
Robin Cousins definitely deserves more votes. Aside from Curry, Robin Cousins is a better skater than all of the rest of the guys on this list put together!!!
Though I voted for Cousins, in general, I'd rate it: Curry, Cousins, Yagudin, Kulik, Lambiel. The other guys on the list are far behind, except for Plushy, WHO OBVIOUSLY IS IN A CLASS BY HIMSELF -- his chutzpah, jumping ability, and utter determination can not be compared. OTOH, Plushy's tendency to rest on his athletic skills to the detriment of developing his artistic abilities is perhaps is one of the reasons why he wants to come back for Sochi 2014.
I just copy my post from the "Greatest Lady Skater"
The definition of "greatest" may be different of "my favourate". "favourate" can be very subjective. we can even count the uber's number for each skater in this forum to know the final result
For "Great" or "Greatest", JMHO, I think there need to be some consistent and objective standard for each skaters such as titles, record, skills measurement, influence on the sports (this one may be subjective)....
Based on influence, i will vote for John Curry, on medals, i will vote for plushenko, on artistry, I have my favorate although artistry is subjective too......then, what's the definition for "greatest" here?
Europe: John Curry
North America: Dick Button
Asia: Daisuke Takahashi
these polls always mean whatever you want then to.
If we go by your very astute observation of standards: titles+record+skills+influence=greatest, then gilles graftstrum would be ducking it out with ulrick salchow, but they're not even listed as options (other than "other").
Given that yags is winning while plushy and lambiel duke it out for bronze, I'd say most people vote by "I wasn't even born yet in 98, so I'll just vote for my favorite"
Curry, Cousins, Yagudin, Lambiel, Urmanov, Kulik
Lambiel was a DREAM when he got it right.
I still can't get over the fact he never won the Europeans.
I always confused about these polls because the standards seems different for different nominee everytime. as someone has worked in statistics, I prefer a consistent standard (even a partail standard is better for me than inconsistent ones )
But if it is the same poll as "who is your favorite skater", everything make sense and I can understand all of them
agree about ulirich salchow considering his titles+influence. but the poll creator has said what he did is a very different sports and he is not in the list so I didn't mention him.
I voted for Cousins because I would have missed him the most if he hadn't existed, but there are a lot of Greats on that list.
To me, Curry's skating was absolutely magical, breathtaking. So while this list has a lot of great skaters, Curry has made the greatest impression on me.
Absolutely! But then, we wouldn't have known what we were missing... BTW, Paul Wylie and Jeremy Abbott count Robin Cousins as the skater who influenced them the most.
Robin's costume resembles what Jeremy is wearing this season for his Swing sp.
ETA: Yes, I agree museks8r re Urmanov. I was remiss in not including Urmanov in my earlier ranking -- re who appeals to me the most . I love Joubert's charisma, but unfortunately he was the greatest European skater who got lost in the mix as the generation of Yags/ Plushy mostly macho with athleticism and a nod to artistry, suddenly gave way to a renewed recognition of the beauty male skaters can wrought with the likes of Weir, Buttle, Savoie on the cusp of old and new, Lambiel, Dai Taka, Abbott, et al.
Cousins was a much better all around free skater than Curry. He was just as artistic but his speed, power, personality on ice, jumping quality, basic skating, were all far superior. If they competed in their primes I doubt Curry would have ever beaten Cousins in a free skating program head to head. Curry wasnt even the dominant free skater of his own time, he often lost the free skate to Kovalev, LOL! He won only 1 World title despite unlike Cousins being very strong in figures.
Cranston was more influential than Curry despite that he didnt win a major title. He was also a superior free skater.
^^ ITA with your assessments. I think that Curry himself was greatly influenced by Cranston. I also agree that Curry was not dominant as an eligible skater. His greatest eligible skate was at the 1976 Olympics. After the Olympics, Curry's influence was felt with the professional ice shows he produced and also his professional singles career had a great impact. Cranston was definitely more influential and more brilliant artistically (but I don't think many feel this way, simply b/c Cranston did not win Olympic gold -- in fact, medals should not be the major factor in making assessments).
I wasn't going to post in this thread - too big a call to make IMO - but I had to respond to this.
What in the name of Plushenchrist is chutzpah?
Here is the definition of Chutzpah, from Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Robin was a better jumper of course, and in terms of speed a better spinner with superb positions for the most part, although John's were even more refined. However John used speed for artistic reasons and when he wanted to could be just as fast as Robin, but he never felt compelled to skate everything flat out fast because it didn't suit his artistic vision. And to say that Robin's basics were far superior is just laughable. John was hardly scraping his way through gazillions of crossovers out there. It took incredible strength, skill and control of the edges to skate the way John did with such perfect body positions. And just because John lost to Kovalev in some free programs doesn't mean he actually should have lost to him or was outskated by him. Politics were fierce and often the result had nothing to do with what was actually skated.
I assume the poster meant self-confidence? I find the definition rather confusing.
Although, a synonym is "sauciness". I think we all know that Plushy is quite saucy.
I don't see Plush as saucy within the definition as I know it, but in my opinion, he is certainly strong willed, determined and has great perserverance. That's quite a combination. I wish him well.
But it's a no-brainer for me-Yagudin, Yagudin, Yagudin. Then Curry, Lambiel, Dai....Yes, I always liked Joubert too, but I think for other reasons than his skating...
The dictionary lists multiple meanings, so it's hard to tell which one was meant, but based on the context, I am guessing self confidence. I don't think Plushy is saucy.
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